custom shape clothes
ultima9999
Posts: 0
hi again people
i made a dress object for genesis , but i created it using feodora as mannequin (3d coat , voxels and retopo)
point is that now the object fits my character , but when i transfer it becomes smaller .
what i would like to ask is if it's possible to rig the dress on feodora's body (or any oher shape for genesis) without needing to restart from the beginning using genesis as mannequin .
perhaps the question has aleaready been asked , but i could'nt find any help searching on google .
thanks in advance
ultima9999
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Transfer it from where to where? If between programs could be the import/export settings that require adjustment.
AFAIK, one models clothing to fit the basic Genesis, '0' mesh resolution [export out an .obj to use as a mannequin].
Then back in D/S one rigs the clothing to fit Genesis. When one morphs Genesis to be any other character; all the clothing 'follow' to fit said figure. So if the clothing is modeled child size; it will 'follow' down the amount of the adult figure to child size, fitting an invisible doll!
ok i wrote three posts trying to be more specific , but apparently the forum won't let me post .
my dress , as you said fits an invisible mannequin which seems to be smaller and fatter than my figure , is there a way to correct the problem (as the object has the right shape) or do i need to restart from beginning using a base genesis as mannequin ?
i would prefer not the second option , because when i turn genesis to a female figure there is an innatural look on the chest area
ultima9999
ah ...what does AFAIK mean ?
i'm sure there was a tutorial about this but i could'nt find it anymore .....now that i need it !
AFAIK As Far As I Know. For Genesis Clothing I believe you need to start with the Base Genesis mesh. But I also think Custom clothing for just some morphs can be done as well. Look at all the V5 only stuff. I hope you get the help to do your character.
Yes, it's possible...but, it may just be easier to redo it to the base Genesis.
It will be easier to scale and fit it to the base in your modelling app than trying to do it in DS.
weird , i thought it was enough to change a couple of options to get it done , perhaps i was wrong , still it is weird that i cannot model a dress around a non base genesis mannequin ( one created without handmade morphs) and make it fit to my character
i cannot do that , my character is female and base genesis has not the right attributes on the chest area to get the dress fitted , i would be faster to restart from beginning but that would mean many corrections after the dress became a conforming figure .
i need to make it around the character's mannequin , if you know how to make it fit on my character instead of an invisible smaller and fatter doll please tell , thank you
ultima9999
If you model and use the base genesis then the figure Scale will be correct for genesis rigging "Bones transfer"
Once that's done,. the outfit will Auto-fit to the figure,. and any morphs you dial in will adjust the outfit to fit that figure ...
whether it's male or female.
Generally clothing should be made to fit the base mesh of the model. not a customised shape.
Hope that makes sense :)
quick example :
Ben (M5) is modelling the scoop back mini-dress which fit's him perfectly while allowing him the freedom to show off his combat skills :)
i cannot do that , my character is female and base genesis has not the right attributes on the chest area to get the dress fitted , i would be faster to restart from beginning but that would mean many corrections after the dress became a conforming figure .
i need to make it around the character's mannequin , if you know how to make it fit on my character instead of an invisible smaller and fatter doll please tell , thank you
ultima9999there is a box when using the transfer utility that allows you to work from a morphed figure...sorry I can't recall the exact wording and I'm posting from an iPad . I have had a similar problem when loading a morph and the dress shrinks despite it having been perfect when imported without loading as a morph. I believe I'm missing a step somewhere because I know it can be done. It's just not working for me. It's my belief that because I've missed something it is applying the morph twice which is why it appears to shrink.
you got my point , now if only someone could tell me which options i should check or uncheck that would be great
awsome render , i mean ... funny !
ever you tryed ogre genesis with hongju's schoolgirl dress ? XD
anyway i'm ok with what you say , i mean i know that , but ...
scoopback mini is not the dress i made , plus you are showing a female dress on a male figure , ok , but try to show a male dress on a female figure , you'll get the shirt or anything is on the chest part to follow exactly the breasts shape , it's unnatural , unless the shirt is very tight .
if instead i can model the dress around a morphed figure i can correct the gaps during the modelling phase and make a dress which is actually made exactly for that character , this also prevent the stretch between tights , the gap between glutes and i can keep my polycount relatively low , because i would need to increase the number on breasts and glutes themselves or i will see the skin popping out from the polygon surfaces of the dress in those areas
ultima9999
(i don't know how to multi-quote so i wrote two replyes)
you got my point , now if only someone could tell me which options i should check or uncheck that would be greatFirst, I fixed my problem...Sickleyield posted a solution in another thread to the scaling issues. It seems this occurs when doing morphs for shapes that have scaling. I was using A3 which does use scaling which was why I was having a problem. Fixed the problems by going to Parameters\Transforms\Scale and changing it to 100% prior to sending it to hexagon. Not sure if this an issue with Feodora and I can't check as I don't own her.
When using the transfer utility click on show options...if you are using a shape as your base figure then click on Reverse Source Shape from Target. I have heard it's a bit tricky to use which is why everyone was suggesting modelling on the base figure. I have read somewhere recently that as long as you use the basic male or female shape it will work fine. Please note I haven't personally tried this recently and I'm not sure how well it works I do know that there were problems initially whether this has improved in later versions I don't know...
you got my point , now if only someone could tell me which options i should check or uncheck that would be greatFirst, I fixed my problem...Sickleyield posted a solution in another thread to the scaling issues. It seems this occurs when doing morphs for shapes that have scaling. I was using A3 which does use scaling which was why I was having a problem. Fixed the problems by going to Parameters\Transforms\Scale and changing it to 100% prior to sending it to hexagon. Not sure if this an issue with Feodora and I can't check as I don't own her.
When using the transfer utility click on show options...if you are using a shape as your base figure then click on Reverse Source Shape from Target. I have heard it's a bit tricky to use which is why everyone was suggesting modelling on the base figure. I have read somewhere recently that as long as you use the basic male or female shape it will work fine. Please note I haven't personally tried this recently and I'm not sure how well it works I do know that there were problems initially whether this has improved in later versions I don't know...
ok , Feodora is scaled (teenager in description) and she's ....hummm..large ....
when i use the transfer utility with this character and a dress modeled on her shape the morphs are repeated , so if feodora is , let's say 60% smaller and 20% larger than base genesis , after the transfer the dress becomes 60% smaller and 20% larger than feodora .
i use the reverse source shape when i need to preserve morphs that belong to the clothing , but that after checking also clone XXXXXXX (in my cases victoria 4)
i have'nt tryed using only reverse source shape for an handmade dress ....with handmade i mean "made from me"..now i'm gpoing to give it a shot , will let you know if it works or not
ultima9999
Hi ultima9999...
I'm afraid I have some bad news for you... :down:
The Transfer Utility can only rig clothing for Genesis that are based on Genesis Shapes and Feodora is a 'Dial Spun' character. So it does what it thinks it needs to do, and that is why your dress appears to get smaller.
All is not lost though... and you don't need to re-do your dress... :cheese:
What you can do is turn the 'Dial Spun' Feodora into a Genesis Shape, and then you can use the Transfer Utility on your dress using the Feodora shape as the source. And as Pendraia said, check Reverse Source Shape from Target. This will re-shape the mesh to fit the base Genesis figure thus making it usable by other shapes.
Now the Transfer Utility will still cause some distortion around the breasts and between the legs, but you can then import in your dress object as a morph to replace the auto-generated morph in the dress.
When you exported Feodora out to use as a mannequin, did you scale it back to 100%, or did you retain the 74.1% of Feodora?
The reason I ask is, did you model your dress to the small scale of Feodora?
If so, then to make things easy, create your Feodora morph shape at the smaller size to match the existing dress model.
Overall, it's not hard to do. I modelled a simple dress for Feodora, created the Genesis Feodora morph, rigged the dress and created the corrective morph in about 15 minutes time, but I've done lot's of these so your times may vary... ;-)
Here's a link to a thread on creating Genesis Shapes if you don't know how...
TUTORIAL - Creating a Genesis Full Body Morph for DAZ Studio Pro 4 or 4.5 by RKane_1
Below is a quick render of Feodora changed into a Genesis Shape and the simple dress I made using her as a mannequin...
If you have any other questions, just ask... :)
it sounds a bit complicated to me , but that maybe because english is not my motherlanguage.
yes , the dress i modeled is made on the feodora shape , but i had to turn more dials to get my character done .
i saved this character as scene file , and infact i was wondering if i was better to save it as morph to turn base genesis to my character with a single dial .
the time it takes is not a problem because i don't need to create a dress to make a test , i can create a bracelet or a collar or something very easy to be modeled , when i use the transger utility i will know if the process is correct or not , if it is then i can make the dress and repeat the steps .
if it's not a problem for you i 'd like to ask what it means to " turn the 'Dial Spun' Feodora into a Genesis Shape "
and if it's possible to do the same process using a custom shape , or better a genesis morphed into "custom feodora"
i will search for it on google , if there is any tut about it , but if you can explain the process you could save me alot of time , thanks !
ultima9999
Hi...
As you may have noticed in the parameters tab, Feodora is made up of alot of different morphs all set at various values. The Transfer Utility doesn't really know how to deal with that when trying to rig clothing.
If you were to save a Character Preset, all you would be doing is making a preset that sets all the dials just like the one you used to get Feodora in the first place, the only difference would be that it would include the extra morph values that you added.
So as I suggested, what you would want to do is create a Genesis Shape, just like V4, V5 or any of the others. This would then create a single slider that would then show on the Shaping tab, and you could then mix it with other shapes.
The best way to do it would be to first zero the figure pose, then set the scale to 100%, set the resolution to Base and Sub-division to zero. Then export the figure out as an object (.obj). Then using Morph Loader Pro, import back in as a Genesis morph.
The link that I gave in my previous post will give step by step instructions on how to do it, including adjusting the rigging and saving it.
I know it may sound difficult to do, but it is really very easy.
nicci... :)
yes i did follow the link you posted and now i'm almost at the end of the process , but i have one question , be patient hehehe
the tutorial says that by saving support assets morph bla bla can be distributed ...i don't want that to happen , i mean this is for my use only
.... shall i save it differently or can i save it as tutorial says being sure that my work remains on my computer only ?
ultima9999
Hi...
Yes you can save it as the tutorial shows. As long as it is for your own personnel use, and you do not distribute the morph to anyone, you are fine.
The same process is used for creating custom morphs that you would model from scratch off the base Genesis, and the tutorial was originally written with that in mind, but the steps are the same.
nicci... :)
ok it works , (all my thanks to you)
after importing the test skirt (a very simple skirt made for this test ) i converted to triax weightmapping figure and ran tyransfer utility with this settings
source item genesis
target item : test skirt
source item shape : morph : mymorph
target item shape : default
projection template : skirt , knee lenght
reverse source item shape
and pressed accept
the skirt keeps the shape but has some distortion between tights ,maybe auto follow issue ?
i tryed to creat a morph using morph loader pro and the original object but that makes it fall to the ground and become bigger ..
ultima9999
The Transfer Utility should handle a dial spun shape if you have the shape applied to Genesis and choose Current for Source: Shape in the Transfer Utility.
Hi Richard...
I had thought so to as I recall having done that in the past... but I tried it with Feodora and it didn't work. The dress shrunk and inflated. I'm using 4.5.1.6, and tried various settings and resetting the scales.
Ultima9999...
Try un-fitting the skirt from Genesis, and then import the morph. Make sure you name it the same as the name you gave the Feodora morph, that way it will automatically apply when you dial in the morph on Genesis.
nicci... :)
Smoothing and push modifiers are the salvation of many items. The push modifier comes in set way too high (I think 1 unit, which would be 1 cm), so dropping it down to a fractional level can do a lot...(0.10 or smaller...I've had nice results with as little as 0.01) fixes lots of problems. Smoothing the same...up the number of iterations and things really start to fit 'right'. I just wish that push modifiers could be assigned to groups or regions as opposed to globally. A tiny push modifier on a skirt can fix lots of problems.
i'm trying to avoid modifiers , i often get strange things when i pose an hand over a dress that has the modifier on it .
the distortion i get looks like two canine teeth hanging from the bottom of the skirt in the front side of it , like two vertices pulled down , not much but still visible .
i could'nt work on my tests this noon because i had a guest at home but i'll play around this evening ....and report my succes or my fails to this forum , now i'm going to try to morph the unfitted testskirt , just the way Niccipb suggested in a previus reply .
ultima9999
but before i carry on with my tests i wish to thank everyone replyed to this my post
That's either a geometry problem...
Possibly not enough polys to actually perform the smoothing. Does it still happen if you SubD the item?
Or, a weight mapping problem (more likely). If you, with the modifier active and the distortion showing, open the weight mapping tools does it show the affected area with the same weights as the surrounding non-affected areas?
Hi...
Are you only having the problem with the vertices after you apply the smoothing modifier? Or does it occur when just posing?
If it happens when you pose, then as mjc said, it's most likely the weights need adjusting.
If it only happens after applying the smoothing modifier, then the problem is the geometry. Most likely overlapping vert's or duplicate vert's where the issues occur.
The Smoothing and Push modifiers can be you best friends as both mjc and Pendraia said. I use them alot. You just need to start with low settings and work up to the desired result.
nicci... :)