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The older generation: Victoria 2/3, Michael 2/3 and their children renders

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  • EthinEthin Posts: 1,112

    I plead Aiko3 on all counts.

     

  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,665
    edited September 2023

    Ethin... All Aiko 3 derived characters?!? Wow. Would never have believed it,

    I so love the expression on the furry's face. A 'Yikes!' look that can be read in her face and duplicated in her whole body language. Superb.

    Regards,

    Richard

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  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,665
    edited October 2023

    I have been using the PA sale to get the remaining Glamerous Vicky stuff I haven't got at a price I can at last afford.

    I've been trying to use Poser Dynamic fabric. It was quite hard to get it to work. In the end I had to convert GV3 to Triax Weight mapping, export the dress as an obj, import, make into a figure & transfer the rigging before then simulating from the default pose. Due to the size of the facets around the neck it exploded every time I tried until I realised scaling the character to 500% would give the required clearances. It was a lot more long winded than I had expected. However.. The result doesn't look much like I have resurrected a 20yo character.

    Regards,

    Richard

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  • EthinEthin Posts: 1,112

    richardandtracy said:

    I have been using the PA sale to get the remaining Glamerous Vicky stuff I haven't got at a price I can at last afford.

    I've been trying to use Poser Dynamic fabric. It was quite hard to get it to work. In the end I had to convert GV3 to Triax Weight mapping, export the dress as an obj, import, make into a figure & transfer the rigging before then simulating from the default pose. Due to the size of the facets around the neck it exploded every time I tried until I realised scaling the character to 500% would give the required clearances. It was a lot more long winded than I had expected. However.. The result doesn't look much like I have resurrected a 20yo character.

    Regards,

    Richard

    Nice!

  • EthinEthin Posts: 1,112

    richardandtracy said:

    Ethin... All Aiko 3 derived characters?!? Wow. Would never have believed it,

    I so love the expression on the furry's face. A 'Yikes!' look that can be read in her face and duplicated in her whole body language. Superb.

    Regards,

    Richard

    Thanks! I guess you could say I do more than "just make do" with Aiko 3.

  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,665

    Glamorous Vickie being decorative while showing off her new drawer pod for her office,

    The computer screen was a 2014 Poser freebie from Rendo. It came with a blue screen, so I looked for an image to stick on it, and came up with the idea of saving my intermediate renders with the same name and having that image as the screen image in the next render, so the blue screen slowly disappeared into the distance.

    The white lace top she appears to be wearing is actually one of Wilmap's lace shaders applied to the Skin, Torso surface group.

    Regards,

    Richard

  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,665

    Hmm. I might be very late to the party on this, but I have made a little discovery.

    It's possible to convert V3 to Triax Weight Mapping. If you do that, you can then create autofit clones of SP3, M3, GND2, A3, Ingenue Vickie, and GV3 that will allow these characters to mostly wear each other's clothes - except for those with high heel feet. All these characters have the same number of vertices and facets (if you get the right version) which means no modelling is needed to create the clone - If you want the A3 autofit clone, load A3, zero the character and export the figure as an obj file, then load it as an autofit clone morph. I was amazed at how easy it was.

    The same can be done with each of the other characters.

    Regards,

    Richard.

  • EthinEthin Posts: 1,112

    richardandtracy said:

    Hmm. I might be very late to the party on this, but I have made a little discovery.

    It's possible to convert V3 to Triax Weight Mapping. If you do that, you can then create autofit clones of SP3, M3, GND2, A3, Ingenue Vickie, and GV3 that will allow these characters to mostly wear each other's clothes - except for those with high heel feet. All these characters have the same number of vertices and facets (if you get the right version) which means no modelling is needed to create the clone - If you want the A3 autofit clone, load A3, zero the character and export the figure as an obj file, then load it as an autofit clone morph. I was amazed at how easy it was.

    The same can be done with each of the other characters.

    Regards,

    Richard.

    I'm just going to be that guy.

    What about converting other generations clothes to generation 3? Because I was told it couldn't be done 'cause generation 3 wasn't weight mapped.

     

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,839

    Ethin said:

    richardandtracy said:

    Hmm. I might be very late to the party on this, but I have made a little discovery.

    It's possible to convert V3 to Triax Weight Mapping. If you do that, you can then create autofit clones of SP3, M3, GND2, A3, Ingenue Vickie, and GV3 that will allow these characters to mostly wear each other's clothes - except for those with high heel feet. All these characters have the same number of vertices and facets (if you get the right version) which means no modelling is needed to create the clone - If you want the A3 autofit clone, load A3, zero the character and export the figure as an obj file, then load it as an autofit clone morph. I was amazed at how easy it was.

    The same can be done with each of the other characters.

    Regards,

    Richard.

    I'm just going to be that guy.

    What about converting other generations clothes to generation 3? Because I was told it couldn't be done 'cause generation 3 wasn't weight mapped.

    Yes, up to the fourth generation (Victoria/Michael/Kids 4) the figuers used parameteric rigging, with the falloffs being controlled by angles from the joint  centre and, optionally, spheres that enclosed the area to move entirely and afalloff to no movement. Those can't simply transfer to another, differently shaped item - the angles/sphere properties will need a lot of tweaking to get a desirable result and the system will fail entirely with some things that are possible with weightmapping.

  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,665
    edited October 2023

    Yep, that's what I thought too. But DS4.21 (not tried with earlier) converts the parametric characters to Triax Weight Mapping using menu option 'Edit| Figure| Rigging| Convert to Weight Mapping' and then select Triax Weight Mapping in the mini window that opens up.

    The resulting figure operates without any extra distortion that I can see. It isn't any better, though! Also, the character can be saved in the same way as any rigged character as a Figure Asset through 'File| Save As|' as you do for creating a library item. Until I converted to a Triax Weight Mapped figure, DS wouldn't allow me to use the option to save the character.

    Having done this you load clothing and fit to the character, and get the normal Compatibility window, which fits the clothing to the newly rigged character.

    The GV3 and IV high heel feet don't autofit shoes well from flat footed characters, same as G8F feet don't autofit G3F shoes well. Apart from that, the only thing that doesn't seem to work well is for the clothes to follow character morphs (like GV3's 'Slender Hips' morph), but they do fit the base figure. I'm wondering if these morphs need to be re-created for the clothing to follow them with some other unexplained behind the scenes work done by DS.

    If you want to try it yourself, I can write some step by step instructions, and then you can try it to verify for your self that it really does work.

    I really can't see why V4 clothes couldn't be used on V3, as I have got A3 hair to work on GV3 as easily as G3F hair works on G8F. A V4/G8F/G9 autofit clone would take some work, though, and creating an A3 autofit clone for V3 takes just a few minutes because they basically use different morphs of the same unimesh. This also means the one clone obj file can be used for all the different Triax Weight Mapped V3 characters. Probably the most useful Triax V3 autofit clone would be G8F. Might try that.

    One area that doesn't work at all is 'Prop' clothing. I've V3/GND2 clothing that only extends over one bone, and isn't rigged, just simple props. Bracers, some briefs, some bra's (mostly GND2 stuff) that I have tried are like this. Once I have Triax versions of V3 & GND2 I will use transfer utility to transfer the rigging to the prop clothing and then see how well it moves onto the other characters.

    Regards,

    Richard.

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  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,665
    edited October 2023

    OK, I did a fairly rough & ready autofit clone for G8F from V3 within DS, just lengthening/shortening narrowing/ generally tweaking limbs on V3 so it roughly matched G8F base. Then saved V3 as an obj. Imported the obj as a morph into my Triax Glamorous Vickie 3 and changed the morph to a clone, and..

    Discovered that Arryn/Onnel's G8F Nora Cocktail dress and Goldtassel's G8F Cafe curls fitted perfectly. So the image below is Cherubit's G8F Milan next to a Triax Glamorous Vickie with G8F Autofit Clone, and the same G8F clothing & hair with a G8F pose transferred over with my G8F to GV3 pose convertor (did need tweaks as the Left Buttock Pose was wildly wrong)

    I think this shows Triaxing V3 works. I'm surprised it's never been done before by people who know a lot more than I do.

    Regards,

    Richard

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  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,665
    edited October 2023

     

    I can confirm that A3 also can be converted:

    And with GND2 clothes:

    Regards,

    Richard

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  • EthinEthin Posts: 1,112

    Your telling me you just found the Holy Grail sitting on a park bench?!!!

    I've been hoping for this for years, in spite of people telling me it would never happen, and it was right under my nose the whole time!

    richardandtracy said:

    If you want to try it yourself, I can write some step by step instructions, and then you can try it to verify for your self that it really does work.

    Yes please! Thank you!

  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,665
    Ethin said:

    Your telling me you just found the Holy Grail sitting on a park bench?!!!

    I've been hoping for this for years, in spite of people telling me it would never happen, and it was right under my nose the whole time!

    In a word... Yes
  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,665
    edited October 2023

    I'll see what I can do about the instructions. I have written it in Word and have 21 images to explain, just need a machine where I can create a pdf to upload. Regards, Richard.

    Edited to add: Easier to post below, my version of Word is 2007, and has no PDF export, and the MS plugin isn't available any more.

    Post edited by richardandtracy on
  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,665
    edited October 2023

    To create a TriAx Version of Aiko 3

    Or Victoria 3 or Glamorous Vickie or GND2 or Ingenue Vickie or Stephanie Petite 3 or any other V3 based character. We will start by creating two obj files for autofit clones. This technique will work for V4 too, but there are fewer immediately available clones.

    1. Load the Poser version of Victoria V3. This may well be in <content>/Runtime/Libraries/Character/DAZ People/Victoria 3 SAE.cr2.
    2. Zero V3’s pose. Select the character, and then select Menu option Edit| Figure| Zero| Zero Figure
    3. Double check you have the right version, by opening up the scene info window. To do this select menu option: Window| Panes| Scene Info. Ensure the vertices are 72712 and the total facets is 74510, as below:
    5. Now need to save the obj file for the V3 autofit clone. Select Menu Item: File| Export…

    6. The save dialogue opens, choose any temporary directory you want. Save under the Name ‘V3’.obj

    8. When the Export options dialogue opens, make sure the scale is 100%, and everything else is as shown:
    9.  
    10. Press the ‘Accept’ button.
    Post edited by richardandtracy on
  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,665
    edited October 2023

    Autofit clone for A3

    1. Start a new Scene
    2. Load the Poser version of Aiko 3. This may well be in <content>/Runtime/Libraries/Character/DAZ Aiko 3/Aiko 3.cr2.  Leave Limits ON if/when asked as Aiko loads.
    3. Zero AV3’s pose. Select the character, and then select Menu option Edit| Figure| Zero| Zero Figure
    4. Double check you have the right version, by opening up the scene info window. To do this select menu option:  Window| Panes| Scene Info Ensure the vertices are 72712 and the total facets is 74510, as below:
    6. Now need to save the obj file for the A3 autofit clone. Select Menu Item:  File| Export…
    7. The save dialogue opens, choose any temporary directory you want. Save under the Name ‘A3’.obj
    8.  
    9. When the Export options dialogue opens, make sure the scale is 100%, and everything else is as shown:
    11. Press the accept button
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  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,665
    edited October 2023

    Now to make the TriAx weighted character.

    1. Select menu option:  Edit| Figure| Rigging| Convert to Weight Mapping… 
    3. When the ‘Convert Figure to Weight Mapping’ window pop’s up, check that the TriAx (Local) Weight Mapping is selected.

    Very little appears to have happened by the time its over. But the magic has been done. 

    Post edited by richardandtracy on
  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,665
    edited October 2023

    Now it’s time to load the Autofit Clones See Catherine3678a's marvelous thread on clone making for more details here: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/599231/making-clones-of-g9-tutorial/p1

    1. Load a full character morph of A3. This will be used to load A3 parametric clothing. This is done by selecting A3 then selecting menu option:  Edit| Figure| Morph Loader Advanced…
    2.  
    3. In the Morph loader Advanced window, select the file A3.obj and ensure the scale is 100%
    5. Press the ‘Accept’ button.

     

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  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,665
    edited October 2023

    Now to turn this morph into an Autofit Clone (Thanks again Catherine!)

    1. In the parameters tab, scroll right down to the bottom, and you’ll see a new morph, called ‘A3’
    2.  
    3. Right Click on the gear icon outlined in red above, and select menu option ‘Parameter Settings’
    4. Make the parameters window look as below:

    The ONLY VITAL one is the morph type, it MUST be Modifier/Clone. The Author at the bottom will default to you.

     

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  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,665
    edited October 2023

    That’s the first autofit clone done, now do a Victoria 3 Autofit Clone so A3 can wear V3 clothing.

    1. Load the full character obj of V3. This will be used to load V3 clothing. This is done by selecting menu option:  Edit| Figure| Morph Loader Advanced…
    2.  
    3. Note the 100% scale again.
    4. Press the ‘Accept’ button again.
    5. In the parameters tab, scroll right down to the bottom, and you’ll see a new morph, called ‘V3’
    7. Right Click on the gear icon outlined in red above, and select menu option ‘Parameter Settings’
    8. Make the parameters window look as below:
    10. The ONLY VITAL one is the morph type, it MUST be Modifier/Clone. Once again the author will default to you.
    11. Press the ‘Accept’ button again.
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  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,665
    edited October 2023

    We have now created a TriAx character and two autofit clones, so it’s time to save the character as a library figure.

    1. Select Menu Option: File| Save As| Support Asset| Figure |Prop Assets…
    3. Save the character with a sensible name:
    5. In the Figure/Prop Assets, fill in data outlined in green that’s appropriate for you. Make sure you select ''Set Content Type' as an Actor/Character
    7. Press the ‘Accept’ button again.
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  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,665
    edited October 2023

    Now you have a TriAx weighted A3. Time to test:

     Triax A3 with A3 Amarseda Hair and V3 Morphing Bikiini

    Triax A3 with V3 Las Vegas hair and V3 Apocalyptic Sun set.

    (After adding a GND2 autofit clone)

    Triax A3 with V3 Windswept Hair, GND2 Mini Dress, GND2 Socks & GND2 Shoes.

    (After adding a basic G8F autofit clone)

    Triax A3 with G8F Goldtassel Café Curls & G8F Arryn/Onnel Nola Cocktail Dress.

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  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,665
    edited October 2023

    Do be aware that the greater the difference in generations, the more likely you are to need to resort to simulation & smoothing modifiers.

    High Heel feet figures (eg IV and GV3) cannot wear flat feet character's shoes.

    Other Generation 3 characters that this process and clones can be applied to:

    1. Victoria 3 (DAZ)
    2. Aiko 3 (DAZ)
    3. Glamorous Vickie 3 (Jim Burton)
    4. Ingenue Vickie (Jim Burton)
    5. GND2 (BlackHearted)
    6. M3 (DAZ)
    7. Stephanie Petite 3

    It can probably be applied to the following (but I don't have them to check):

    1. The Freak 3
    2. Hiro 3 

    It will probably work for any other Generation 3 Unimesh figures not listed above (is The Girl a Generation3 Unimesh? - Edited to add: No, The Girl isn't, having around 55,000 facets, quite a lot fewer than V3).

    Remember if you make a clone obj file of any of the characters for G8F/G3F etc, then keep the obj file as it can be used as a clone file for each & every other triax character you choose to create.

    The clone figures of V3/GND2/GV3/IV etc can all be used as full body morphs directly so A3 could morph into M3 or V3 or.. The limit is your imagination, and if you wish, you could start loading up your Generation3 Triax figure with all the FBM's you want from the parametric figures and slow loading down enormously.

    Regards,

    Richard

    Post edited by richardandtracy on
  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,665

    I do hope the little explanation on how to do it is useful.

    Regards,

    Richard

  • EthinEthin Posts: 1,112

    Do you have to do anything different for genesis(1,2,3,8) items?

  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,665
    Yes. Slightly. You need to use a modeller to make an obj file of V3 into the shape of the G1/2/3/8/9 shape you're interested in. As it's a clothing morph, it can be a bit less accurate (which is why I was able to get the G8F clone shape for V3 solely done within DS without any modelling). Better & more accurate to model in a modeller. Anyway, the V3 mesh will be closer to a normal figure than A3 and take less work to modify to the shape of the generation you want to clone - but the meshes are functionally identical, and are really just different morphs of each other, so you can start with the generation 3 character that's closest to the figure you wish to clone. Once done, create the clone obj file, and load with Morph Loader Advanced as above. Regards, Richard.
  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,665
    One thing I must point out is that this is all very new to me, and I don't know what/if I'm missing anything. I am not a huge authority on this, and I don't know anything other than the absolute basics of creating new characters. Regards, Richard.
  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,665
    edited October 2023

    The whole point of doing this is to create pretty pictures, isn't it?

    So, Triax Glamerous Vicki with a G8F Short Kaftan in a garden.. SImulation didn't work well, and actually fitted better without simulation

    Regards,

    Richard

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  • EthinEthin Posts: 1,112

    richardandtracy said:

    The whole point of doing this is to create pretty pictures, isn't it?

    So, Triax Glamerous Vicki with a G8F Short Kaftan in a garden.. SImulation didn't work well, and actually fitted better without simulation

    Regards,

    Richard

    yes!

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