Altering textures - copyright question

DzFire

I have done it myself and two vendors (Uzilite and Davorama) offered me their layered textures to make it easier to alter.

larsmidnatt

Taozen said:

What about altering a texture for a product and using it in my own renders then? Are there any rules here for private / puclic / commecial use of such renders?

You can do that all day. ANd if the product was allowed to be used commercially in renders you changing the texture and selling the render is still ok too.

I've only heard once of a vendor who supposedly only allowed their content to be rendered a certain way. I would never do business with someone like that...It's stupid and non-enforceable.

Taoz

DaremoK3 said:

Taozen:

I see where you are coming from, and I agree with you.

It is sad that one can't do what the author should have done in the first place. He/She should have included a non-ripped version of the jeans texture, and you just want to give people (who own it) that option by doing the work for them (because, not everyone is inclined, or even have the simple skills to accomplish the mind-numbingly simple procedure).

Yes - there should always be a default texture so you have the choice whether you want holes in the pants or not, or tattoos on the body texture or not. etc.. Not always the case, unfortunately.

Unfortunately, as everyone have profusely stated, your only recourse are the work-arounds presented, or you could write a small tutorial teaching those to apply the texture to the holes.

The question still is if you can use the renders you make using your own customized textures publicly or commercially.

What I find hilarious is I can imagine that I have the exact 'base' jeans texture in my texture catalog just like the nearly $30.00 product I downloaded yesterday that used three of the same leather texture bases (non-altered even) that I have in my catalog, and I know exactly where they got them from (free for both commercial and non-commercial 3D ventures).

I'm not surprised.

Now, if the base jeans textures are heavily modified (cloud noise, dodge, burn, custom painting, etc.) like custom work that is done by chohole, then even if you have the base texture (with freebie distribution rights) to recreate the needed patch for the holes, you will have to create it as close to the author's as possible.

Definitely the alpha layer patch would be the way to go, unless you feel like teaching those who can't do for themselves which would save you from any hassles of trying to be a nice guy, and helping anyone out in the first place.
Just my buck-fifty...

I'll experiment and see what's best. Maybe creating a texture set from scratch as you suggest in your other post is the way to go....

Taoz

DzFire™ said:

The best way around this is to contact the vendor and ask. I've been asked in the past about some of my textures and on a few occasions, I have allowed the altered texture to go out.

I've thought about it but it's a DAZ original, so I suspect they won't allow it.

Taoz

larsmidnatt said:

Taozen said:

What about altering a texture for a product and using it in my own renders then? Are there any rules here for private / puclic / commecial use of such renders?

You can do that all day. ANd if the product was allowed to be used commercially in renders you changing the texture and selling the render is still ok too.

Well that's a least something...

I've only heard once of a vendor who supposedly only allowed their content to be rendered a certain way. I would never do business with someone like that...It's stupid and non-enforceable.

Yes, I agree.

blondie9999

BishounenTaurus said:

Question; couldn't you just RTEncode it?

That way, it can only be used by people who own the original product, and they essentially have to prove they own it in order to even get access to it. That way, no content is being redistributed in such a way that any Tom, Dick, and Harry could use it.

I'm interested in this topic as i'm currently working on a set of matching Adzan HiroGens textures for characters who previously have no genital textures (such as 3DU's Jason), and in order to make sure the skin match i've had to use samples from the torso texture.

RTE encoding is NOT a "solution." DAZ gave people the right to RTE-encode things against its own models, but that DOES NOT apply to brokered items. The only way you can redistribute RTE-encoded stuff from a brokered item is if you obtain the vendor's permission.

TheNathanParable

blondie9999 said:

BishounenTaurus said:

Question; couldn't you just RTEncode it?

That way, it can only be used by people who own the original product, and they essentially have to prove they own it in order to even get access to it. That way, no content is being redistributed in such a way that any Tom, Dick, and Harry could use it.

I'm interested in this topic as i'm currently working on a set of matching Adzan HiroGens textures for characters who previously have no genital textures (such as 3DU's Jason), and in order to make sure the skin match i've had to use samples from the torso texture.

RTE encoding is NOT a "solution." DAZ gave people the right to RTE-encode things against its own models, but that DOES NOT apply to brokered items. The only way you can redistribute RTE-encoded stuff from a brokered item is if you obtain the vendor's permission.

I'm sorry, I can't see how RTEncoding is not a solution. The whole point behind RTEncoding is that you can restrict a file to only those who already legally own the source files it is based on. Madoka for example is a mix between Aiko3 and MayaX's Anime Doll, both commercial figures from different brokers. RTEncode ensures that the only people who can use Madoka are those who already own both Aiko3 and Anime Doll Kit (NOT a Daz 3D item).

If I were to RTEncode my Adzan compatibility textures for Jason, the only people who could use them are those who own Jason. I honestly don't see what the issue is here.

randym77

blondie9999 said:

RTE encoding is NOT a "solution." DAZ gave people the right to RTE-encode things against its own models, but that DOES NOT apply to brokered items. The only way you can redistribute RTE-encoded stuff from a brokered item is if you obtain the vendor's permission.

But this is a DAZ original. Does that mean RTE encoding is okay?

I don't think I've ever seen textures distributed via RTE Encoder. CR2s and morphs, but I didn't know you could do it with textures. If you can, this might be the answer for Taozen.

cwichura

Unless the texture is a simple tiled texture meant to be used as a shader resource or a character skin, I don't see what RTEncoding really buys you, since the modified texture likely has little use without the original product anyway, since its UV layout won't match any other clothing items.

Richard Haseltine

RTEncoding and the use of stripped OBJ files for morphs have been allowed in the past, but the latter is not allowed with fourth generation figures and later. The status of RTEncoding I'm not sure of, but when it was allowed that was a DAZ decision and not one PAs were obliged to go along with. As always, ask rather than assuming - most PAs don't bite (most of the time).

Richard Haseltine

It isn't a question of whether there's harm or not - copyright allows only the uses the owner authorises, and the EULA allows only the uses the EULA authorises; if you want to go beyond that you need permission, in advance, which may well be forthcoming. It isn't something end users (or forum oration) can authorise.

Taoz

cwichura said:

Unless the texture is a simple tiled texture meant to be used as a shader resource or a character skin, I don't see what RTEncoding really buys you, since the modified texture likely has little use without the original product anyway, since its UV layout won't match any other clothing items.

No, that was also what I was trying to say.

Taoz

Richard Haseltine said:

It isn't a question of whether there's harm or not - copyright allows only the uses the owner authorises, and the EULA allows only the uses the EULA authorises; if you want to go beyond that you need permission, in advance, which may well be forthcoming. It isn't something end users (or forum oration) can authorise.

But it there isn't any harm done to anyone, it makes no sense having rules that don't allow it. Laws and rules are made for protecting someone or something from being harmed, that's the only purpose they have (or should have).

cwichura

Moan all you want, that won't change the laws.

larsmidnatt

You have to think about the larger reach of the rules and not focus on one situation. People shouldn't redistribute other peoples work without permission, there doesn't need to be any justification for why a creator won't allow it. That is the right of the copyright holder.

adamr001

Please do not debate the legality or morality of the EULA or copyright in general. It is a well traveled path both here and elsewhere and the conversation always ends up with pure argument for argument's sake. Any such further material down this path will result in the thread being closed.

Thank you.

maclean

If I re-record a Michael Jackson song with me tapping my feet in the background, and release it as a single, I'd end up in court. I could argue that it would sell more MJ discs, but I doubt I'd win the case.

Taking any original work and modifying it, then re-distributing it (free or for money), is prohibited in almost every country in the world. Doesn't matter whether it's an image, music or a pair of shoes.

And in the time spent discussing it, you could probably make an original texture of your own. (I appreciate you're only asking the legality of it. And to your credit.... at least you're polite enough to ask).

mac

icprncss

With regards to original question, are you offering the altered texture as freebie or were you planning on selling the altered texture?

If you are offering as a freebie, you could always go the oldie route of RTE encoding the texture. This ensures that only those who have already purchased the product can decode the texture and use it.

Simply making a few changes to a texture and then selling it as your own can lead to many, many problems. One of the biggest and messiest was in late May of 2007. If you have a Rendo account, search the Copyright and infringement form for that time period. You will learn a great deal.

Too bad you can't get into the old Poser Pros forums either. Issues of copyright infringement happened there at least 4 or 5 times.

Chohole

Richard has already made a post about RTE encoder., and whether it is an acceptable method, further back in the thread.

Taoz

cwichura said:

Moan all you want, that won't change the laws.

If enough people moan, it will. It's not many years ago there were laws that forbid black people doing certain things that were allowed for white people.

I'm not really trying to change any laws though, just pointing out the purpose of laws and where they are appropriate or not. This seem to have been forgotten in many contexts.

Taoz

larsmidnatt said:

You have to think about the larger reach of the rules and not focus on one situation.
People shouldn't redistribute other peoples work without permission, there doesn't need to be any justification for why a creator won't allow it. That is the right of the copyright holder.

Sure, and I respect that. If I don't like the terms I just don't buy the stuff.

I just think there are too many cases where laws and rules simply prevent people from doing things that basically are constructive. There should be a law against that. ;)

Taoz

icprncss said:

With regards to original question, are you offering the altered texture as freebie or were you planning on selling the altered texture?

If you are offering as a freebie, you could always go the oldie route of RTE encoding the texture. This ensures that only those who have already purchased the product can decode the texture and use it.

Simply making a few changes to a texture and then selling it as your own can lead to many, many problems. One of the biggest and messiest was in late May of 2007. If you have a Rendo account, search the Copyright and infringement form for that time period. You will learn a great deal.

Too bad you can't get into the old Poser Pros forums either. Issues of copyright infringement happened there at least 4 or 5 times.

Just a freebie, nothing commercial. I'd never do that, as this is just preying on other people's hard work.

I just altered a texture for private use, as I wasn't satisfied with the one included with the product. Then I thought why not share it so others having the same product could benefit from it also.

Anyway, EOD from here. Thanks everyone for your input.. ;)