Plant Modeler Question - More branches for hybrid shape?

Diomede

Playing with the plant modeler.  Under the experts tab, you can change the shape to hybrid.  It splits the trunk horizontally which I like.  But the branches do not seem to increase when using the sliders.  Anyone know how to get more branches for the hybrid shape?  Feel like I am missing something simple.

3DAGE

HI Diomede :)

when you select Hybrid or Ramified,. it changes some options,.

There's a 3 main branch limit ,. but you open up the side branch options on the Trunk, Tree shape, and Experts tabs

so you can have a three branch split from each branch,. and side branch options,.  instead of a single branch with single sub branches,.

kind of hard to explain,. pics help,.

Diomede

Thank you.  I will study the screenshots and experiment.  You are amazing.

Diomede

Here is a very quick test (just look at the time difference between posts - almost nothing!)

 

I modeled a quick custom leaf and replaced the default leaves.  I used the concepts illustrated by 3DAGE for the expert ramified shape, and applied a custom procedural shader to the bark and trunk and branches.  I then duplicated the plant and rotated to add the extra branches.  The result is the kind of tree that I picture all alone on a vast plain.

 

My further experiments will be in my "No one asked me" thread - such as adding some vultures. 

 

Thank you again, 3DAGE

3DAGE

No problem :)

happy to help.

 

 

Diomede

Is it possible to get a Carrara tree into Studio?  I tried exporting as obj and as collada, but only the trunk seems to work.  The branches and leaves are not included.  True even if I export as obj then import back in Carrara

TangoAlpha

You need to tick "Full Detail Mesh" and  "Show Leaves" before exporting (in the Manipulation Mesh section under the main tree view). And be prepared for a shock when you see the poly count . . .

Diomede

Hmmmm. polycount is an issue.  I modeled a custom tree for my first challenge using replicators to place sub branches and leaves.  I'd be better at it now.  Would you recommend something like that rather than exporting a plant editor model?

 

Diomede

Well, here is a more simple custom Carrara tree exported to Studio with simple flat brown and green textures.

Now to learn ultrascatter

Dartanbeck

The thing that I like about some of the 3D trees on the market over the Carrara trees is the fact the the modeled-in branch segments are so much more accurate. I haven't looked at the ones I've got from Traveler lately, but they look like they'll have those same benefits.

I LOVE the benefits of the Carrara trees in Carrara, however. We can make them to be really fast or really high res, and everywhere in between - and the system does a darned nice job of generating all of the details.

Looking up examples while forgetting to unhide those I've bought, I immediately found an excellent example

Predatron's Common Ash Trees are an excellent example of a great, hand-modeled tree! And he has many more to choose from - as do many other artists.

If I remember right, I think that Tim experimented with various setting before finding the Goldie-Locks zone for exporting Carrara trees. The ones he made for his products are bar-none awesome trees!!!

So that's where what I was just saying can break apart and become untrue. And it shows that Carrara's plant editor is certainly capable of turning out very high quality tree models.

All in all, I'm very glad that I love rendering in Carrara so I never really have to worry about exporting a lot of this stuff.

But, yeah... it sure does make for a good method of creating tree products for other software, like Poser and/or DS, etc.,

Dartanbeck

3DAGE said:

HI Diomede :)

when you select Hybrid or Ramified,. it changes some options,.

There's a 3 main branch limit ,. but you open up the side branch options on the Trunk, Tree shape, and Experts tabs

so you can have a three branch split from each branch,. and side branch options,.  instead of a single branch with single sub branches,.

kind of hard to explain,. pics help,.

I was feeling bummed that I wasn't around to answer the question - untill I read this answer, that is!

That's exactly how I understand it as well. As a matter of fact, I bet 3DAGE is the reason I know this stuff! LOL

TangoAlpha

I know Howie did some work with using small trees as "leaves" to get better detail, but I haven't gone down that route (yet). The biggest problem I have with Carrara's trees is the unrealistic bending. That can largely be hidden in the canopy (but that isn't much use if you're exporting to DS, unless you want multi-million poly trees!)

There are alternatives: the gnarly apple trees in TAO were made with XFrog/Windows. Xfrog is a dedicated procedural tree & plant generator, and more sophisticated than Carrara, but also a bigger learning curve and quite expensive (you can also buy trees that they've generated in-house. There are usually free samples in OBJ format around this time of year . . .) And of course there's "box modelling", building the whole tree from scratch and using replicators for the leaves. Has the advantage that you get exactly the tree you wanted, but you also have to do all the work.

FifthElement

Blender has a very nice plant "modeler" (as you call it, lol, more apropriate would be a generator), IMO creates more realistic trees than Carrara 

Diomede

Thanks.  Looks great.  What kind of poly count are we talking if exporting the resulting tree to Carrara or Daz Studio?

 

EDIT :  Never mind - just got to the low poly portion of the tutorial (around minute 23).  Great.

3DAGE

I really don't understand why there's this emphasis on getting stuff into DS,.  it just seems like round peg / square hole

We should be celebrating the fact that Carrara, despite years of under development, has tools, abilities, and features, which more actively developed programs don't.

Using Replication and duplication in any program is normally better for memory usage,. than converting things to a single mesh,. the idea of converting a simple leaf  into thousands of poly's makes no sense to me,.

from what I can see,. Carrara has a better object replication capability,. better distribution and rendering.

TangoAlpha

Interesting, I didn't know about the Blender plant modeller (no time to watch the vid right now, so I'll check it out later).

Depending on the size of the tree, I try to limit mine to around 300K polys. In Carrara, convert to vertex object for the poly count (don't forget you can untriangulate...), Undo, tweak, reconvert, repeat as needed. Then export. Don't forget to save often, because the plant editor can be a little crashy!

Diomede

Options are good.

 

3DAGE said:

I really don't understand why there's this emphasis on getting stuff into DS,. 

Diomede

Thanks, very helpful to know.

 

TangoAlpha said:

Depending on the size of the tree, I try to limit mine to around 300K polys.

 

FifthElement

 

TangoAlpha said:

Interesting, I didn't know about the Blender plant modeller (no time to watch the vid right now, so I'll check it out later).

Yep, It's pretty good, I know few content developers who use it, Blender trees have armature as well 

I use TreeSketch app on my Ipad, it is awesome 

WendyLuvsCatz

3DAGE said:

I really don't understand why there's this emphasis on getting stuff into DS,.  it just seems like round peg / square hole

We should be celebrating the fact that Carrara, despite years of under development, has tools, abilities, and features, which more actively developed programs don't.

Using Replication and duplication in any program is normally better for memory usage,. than converting things to a single mesh,. the idea of converting a simple leaf  into thousands of poly's makes no sense to me,.

from what I can see,. Carrara has a better object replication capability,. better distribution and rendering.

I think thats where the market is.

I too think modeling for DAZ studio a simpler tree generator like NGplant for trunk and branch shape or model by hand and then replication using instances on branches as well is the way to go as Carrara trees are really a form of Carrara replication so in studio one would apply the same principles.

Only difference is you can export a carrara trees to other software creating real instances by enabling full detail mesh whereas the tree in D|S made of instanced branches and leaves would be D|S only.

WendyLuvsCatz

I am going to dig my own grave and actually suggest this to D|S PA's

 

because it will be D|S only and I do not render in D|S

 

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/134976/trees-and-shrubs-with-instanced-branches-leaves-etc

as I said even a brick could be instanced D|S building blocks unlimited using just the cube primitive anyone can be a modeler!

TangoAlpha

3DAGE said:

I really don't understand why there's this emphasis on getting stuff into DS,.  it just seems like round peg / square hole

We should be celebrating the fact that Carrara, despite years of under development, has tools, abilities, and features, which more actively developed programs don't.

Using Replication and duplication in any program is normally better for memory usage,. than converting things to a single mesh,. the idea of converting a simple leaf  into thousands of poly's makes no sense to me,.

from what I can see,. Carrara has a better object replication capability,. better distribution and rendering.

 

From my perspective, it's what sells.  And for the purpose of this thread, it answers Diomede's question. 

WendyLuvsCatz

and expect you to see the point of this too TA

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/134976/trees-and-shrubs-with-instanced-branches-leaves-etc-or-just-one-brick-for-a-city

you and Howie know where I am heading with this point, not instancing objects but building the models themselves from instances, I only have instances plus and not fond enough of D|S to try too much

I dare say with Ultra scatter you could do what I cannot and instance the instances so you still only have one cube but rearrange the walls etc.