Santo International for Genesis: Why M4 gen maps?
daveleitz
Posts: 459
I just bought Santo for Genesis, which is very nice addition to my growing collection. However, what I can't figure out is why it came with M4 genital maps which are useless for M5 genitals. Santo has some nice materials, so why should he have to use an M5 body texture like Philip when he wants to go au natural? I'm not going to buy M4/V4 just to get genitals that won't work right on Genesis anyway.
Product Suggestion: Please put ALL Genesis texture maps with Genesis products.
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Comments
I'm pretty sure Santo was created and released before Michael 5, so that would have been the only way to give him genitals.
I have complained about this for some other products. There is no way for a customer can know if a product was released prior to M5, for example, or what the MATs are for, unless the product description says so. Seems like a very simple bit of information to include. Some products do include this kind of information, which is the way it should be. It would be nice if all Genesis characters would be fully updated for M5, for example, but we can't really require or expect that. We can, however, expect accurate information in the product descriptions.
At least there is the refund policy.
Well, there is no need for a refund since I'm pretty pleased with the product overall. It would be nice if the artist(s) would do a product update, though. Seems simple enough since the artist would have access to the original images used to create the textures. With some labor I could attempt texture painting in Blender and Gimp, but that would be work...
Anatomical correctness is not a very high priority around here...so that's one more 'trend' that pushes those types of updates far down the ladder.
Santo for genesis was released months prior to the release of M5, so no, there were no genesis genitals to make textures for. That's kind of why it says it's for Genesis and not M5. ;) the M4 gens textures were included as a courtesy for those that had the M4 gens as a workaround for the lack of gens for Genesis.
When M5 was released, we tried to work on updating our products to work with M5 (at my suggestion) with new morphs and the gens textures, but it's been slow going getting the updates out. The good news is Santo M5 is being released tomorrow (hopefully) that has the gens textures and all new morphs, and some additional options and we're retiring the old Genesis version and bundle... and offering an upgrade discount to previous owners. So I'm not sure how it works out discount wise to keep the current version and get the discount or return it and buy the new version.
Now keep in mind, this is something we did not have to do and no one else has done it to their pre-M5 products, and to get the project moving on updating these items, I had to fund it with my own cash so textures can be added and checked for M5. So no, these updates aren't free 'cause I have to recoup my investment.
The textures are still against the M4 UV but the they have been altered to seamlessly use the M5 gens.
I will say, it would have been nice if you would have asked about the product before making this thread, because I would have been happy to tell you the status.
And you are probably one of the few vendors that would make it a higher priority than 'maybe, sometime, when we get the time...'
And you are probably one of the few vendors that would make it a higher priority than 'maybe, sometime, when we get the time...'
Thanks, and it was a lot more issues that had to be resolved than just making the textures. The new version has DSON support with Poser materials and the shorter bodies (which are about the height of David 3) had to be manually rigged so that they don't get mangled in Poser. So the new version is a much bigger package than the genesis version, but a lot better one as well.
Thank you, Male-M3dia, for explaining the technical limitations involved in making the product. As someone just learning digital art, I can imagine the amount of work involved. The Santo product is very nice, as I said in a previous post. I was unaware of the timeline involved relating it to Genesis and M5 and that is why I posted my original question.
I'm sure you can appreciate how it might feel to get a new 'toy' and start playing with all its gizmos, only to find out some parts don't seem to work as expected. I found a workaround in the freepository that may work out for my purposes. I will check out the Santo for M5 when it is available. Fortunately, for use as drawing and painting reference materials I don't need a perfectly rendered product at this time.
Finally, I really do appreciate the quality that you put into your work and look forward to getting more of your products in the future. :)
Male-M3dia, I commend you on your dedication to updating your products. I hope that all vendors do this as well.
As I said earlier, the only thing I would ask is for the actual product descriptions to clearly state the correct information. If a product says it is for Genesis, it should have all Genesis parts and MATs, unless specified. Not everyone is going to know when a product was released in relation to M5, for example. A simple note stating that the product is for Genesis, but has (For example) M4 Gen MATs, will alleviate any problems with people buying a product and expecting all the parts to work with Genesis. Some products do this, and I know I greatly appreciate an accurate product description.
Again, thanks for working to update your products. I for one greatly appreciate it.
Well, I must say that Santo for M5 is a great looking product. Downloading now!
Normally older products that M4 Gens have that, however, given the timeline and other things, vendors aren't really going to send a bunch of requests to change their descriptions months after their products hit the store just because something new comes along. Sorry, but in this case you're asking a bit much. In one case, Nigel M5, I sent about 5 requests to change the description that it includes the M5 gens textures and nothing happened so I gave up. If something isn't notated in the description, it may not be there... but you can always ask the vendor. That's seems to be a better solution, when in doubt, free free to ask.
Should I uninstall Santo for Genesis before installing Santo for M5?
I don't see how it is asking too much. I'm not asking for changes to be made after the fact...I'm asking for correct, detailed product descriptions from the start. So those products that were designed for Genesis but included M4 textures should have been labled as such from the start. There would be no need to change them when M5 came out because they would have always had the right information.
As far as you sending requests and not getting action, that is Daz's fault and really inexcuasable since you are trying to do the right thing...thanks for trying though.
Oh well. Thanks.
No, they'll live side by side ;)
I don't see how it is asking too much. I'm not asking for changes to be made after the fact...I'm asking for correct, detailed product descriptions from the start. So those products that were designed for Genesis but included M4 textures should have been labled as such from the start. There would be no need to change them when M5 came out because they would have always had the right information.
As far as you sending requests and not getting action, that is Daz's fault and really inexcuasable since you are trying to do the right thing...thanks for trying though.
Oh well. Thanks.
And as I said, they did have them labeled as such. Most didn't have gens textures AT ALL. So if they weren't in the description, they weren't added. Back then it was the norm not to have gens, than have them included.
Hey, I don't know if this is the place to post this but when I was checking out the textures in the Santo M5 installation directory, I noticed that one of the 'bald torso' bump maps was partially blank. The corresponding 'hair torso', however, was complete. Since the affected area was around the hips, and I assumed that part is identical between the two images, I just did a quick fix in Gimp. It took less time than running the installers all over again, so I don't know for sure if this was an error on my PC or an issue from the source files. Y'all might want to check into it just to be sure.
Possibly double check, I didn't see the issue in the files I have.... I had to manually put all the files together and check them all (ugh) so I would have saw that.