Novica & Forum Members Tips & Product Reviews Pt 9
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I already spotted it changing the slider up to 4! So I restarted it a few minutes ago. Thanks for pointing it out though. I didn't really understand the difference in the two, so thanks for explaining it. I just knew I didn't want that sucker cranked up to 4 when I was only testing it to 3 for the default. (Edit-it's at 92% done, so will only be a few minutes. Will post it back up in Ivan. This is with the Render SubD at 3)
Well, that is not good either. The default Ivan (Render SubD Level 3) vs the HD with that, clearly shows the default is much sharper. I will double check the first one again, to be sure that slider didn't do a whammy on me and go to 4. I am not testing the HD one, as I looked while it was rendering and the slider was correct at 3, to match the setting on the default one. I'll test the default one right now, then gotta get some sleep. It's going on 3am here.
Yep, I got the same results. The default seems crisper. Okay, signing off for tonight. Interesting to see others' experiments, thanks for doing that.
I have rune 7 HD and Ivan 7 HD and I SWEAR, the last time I used them, there was a noticeable difference. Is there any possibility at all, that the update in DS has affected this? Cos I KNOW Ivan HD had more definition and was quite noticebly better.
I'm on 4.9.4.117, not the very latest update (that's 122 I think), and I'm seeing it as well. So if anything changed, it must have been before that. I do have install files for a few older versions, and I'm starting to think it might be worth installing them on the laptop to see if - and where - there is a change in how the HDs look.
hmmm I'm on 117 too. I havne't rendered Rune or Ivan in a while so was curious about that.
SubD has impact- both individually between the viewport and your render. If you go into the parameters you can lower the SubD in the view port to 0 and crank it higher (like 3-which should be what you use to show the details in any render) on the render dial. This way the SubD doesn't slow your viewport maneuverability as you put more objects into your scene. All SubD should render at 3+ levels, otherwise they will have little to no effect on the render itself. I always lower it to 0 on the top SubD dial, and 3 for the Render dial below it. Also, make sure to go into your surfaces and make sure that if there are displacement maps to put the level of SubD to 3 as well on the model itself. If there are no displacements, then there's no worry there.
Yep, if the details were scrulpted at level 3, any lower level will appear smoother.
SSS, HDRI lighting, and bounce lighting will all tend to soften HD detail - they get light, one way or another, into the nooks and crannies and so tend to soften transitions. This is, in the case of HDRI and bounce light, the same as saying candle-light is more flattering than electric or photographers using light-diffusers for portraits (unless theya re going for a rugged look). Both Iray and 3Delight do SSS, though the amount may vary between material settings, but Iray is more likely to be using HDRI and bounce lighting.
I've been fighting with Ivan HD also. I searched for Ivan morphs and found there were multiple sliders, one of which was set to zero, even though I'd started with Ivan HD. Moving that duplicate slider (no clue why) upped the details, but not to the extent that showed in the promos.
I got Ivan and Ivan HD when they were just on sale because I want Raoul. So many hoops to jump through for one character! Not happy with him so far and now I need Raoul to go back on sale. Much running of errands and doc appts today, so I can't look at this again, but glad I'm not alone in seeing a lack of HD. (And changing his skin out to a smooth skin shows how the HD is lacking also.)
Oh, now I feel foolish. I was in such a rush... I assumed the viewport was showing me what I'd get. I need to stop and render things. (Facepalm)
I also feel like there was once more distinction for Gianni/Gianni HD. And I wonder if the forum admins contributing are looking closely at posted renders. I firmly believed it was about SubD which is why I did my renders at SubD 4. I was startled by the results. I guess I'll do some hand renders next since that's a popular promo.
(I find myself actually wondering if the HD install is modifying the base files somehow so that there's some level of HD that automatically kicks in at higher SubD.)
Hands. HD SubD 5 vs Base SubD 4. Files named so.
I'm going to try Ivan with higher SubD soon, since I /don't/ have his HD pack.
Here's an interesting thing: My Gianni Base has a bump and a normal map for the face; the HD one does NOT have a normal map assigned.
Here's Base Ivan at SubD 2, with and without normal map turned on.
Ok, so that's the secret. Despite putting an icon in my Figures folder, the HD product is a MORPH, not a model.
Base Gianni at SubD 4, beside Base Gianni at SubD4 with HD Details turned up. HD NO NORMALS included as attachment for further comparison.
Edit: please disregard my question below. As I read through to the end of the thread, it was answered by DarwinsMishap on the next page. The benefit would be to keep your viewport from getting slowed down.
I'm confused. Sounds like you're saying you like the viewport subd level to be different than the render subd. Is there a benefit to having them different rather than in sync?
Loading the Figure "Ivan 7 HD" is not setting the Ivan 7 HD Details controller or the Ivan 7 Head HD Details morph. Both are left at 0. Try dialing them to 100% manually and submitting a help request about the problem.
Does HD Ivan have Normal maps assigned? Even with HD Gianni having Details turned up to 2000% the important bit is the missing normal maps. I'm actually wondering if you can achieve a similar effect to the HD morph by turning the Base Normals up past 1. Time for another test!
I wonder if that's what happened with all the gals.
Well, I did a comparison render between Victoria Base and Victoria with HD Details turned up and the big difference was the ears.
More attachments, including using Gwennli HD Details and a second with Gwennli HD Details AND Gwennli Normal map.
The one HD that I like is for Ivan - it makes a huge difference on Raoul. For me on the youhger smoother characters HD is a waste of money. I also have HD for Creature Creators for GM2 and GF2 and they are good because they have more texture.
Attached are Raoul HD and without HD Big difference to me. Subdivision level at 3 I think for both.
Daz HD characters use HD morphs instead of normal maps. The non-HD characters use normal maps to simulate the HD details. I believe that Daz does not intend users to use both the character normal maps and HD morphs together.
Edit: PA characters may be created differently and intend both to be used. I don't know.
I doubt it. The females just don't have much HD detail, even in the promos.
Wow! I kick myself repeatedly for not buying Raul when he was on sale. He was even in my wishlist.
I am not sure I believe this, since if you apply the HD Details via a slider, you end up with the Normal Maps AND the morph used, and I think that's the only way to get the definition shown in the HD Promo pics. There's definitely no reason to buy the HD product to use independently of the Normal maps since the difference is sometimes that you _lose_ definition (as demonstrated).
In any case, doubling Normal maps on a standard model unsurprisingly produces similar effects to layering the morph and the normals.
Well, you might be right, I don't know. Daz seems to release characters inconsistently. In almost all cases, I see the Daz Original HD character figure thumbnail load HD morphs at 100% and turn normals off. I see the non-HD character load with normals on. Ivan 7 HD loads with HD body morphs at 100% and normal maps on, but it also loads without HD head morphs turnd on, so I think it is really a screwy example to draw any conclusions from, other than mistakes were made in the product.
Edit, no Ivan 7 HD doesn't load with normals on. I accidently reapplied his texture maps. That turned the normals on. My error on that one!
I think Ivan 7 with both normals and HD morphs at SbuD 3 is too intense for my taste. Look at those popping veins and very harsh facial details. I prefer just the HD morphs (after correcting them to dial in the head HD).
Ivan 7 HD SubD 3, with Normals OFF
Ivan 7 HD SubD 3, with Normals turned ON
Okay, you know me and technology- how are you turning the normal maps "off?" When I go to normal maps in the Surfaces pane, are you just hovering over it to get the texture map name (if you want to put it back), then choosing to browse and selecting "none?" I don't ever fiddle with maps since I normally show folks the default stuff, out of the box, so I am WAAAAY behind the curve here. (always admit what I don't know, as perhaps it will help other folks too.)
For people who may be totally lost- when we're talking about the Subdivision Level and Render SubD Level, that's in Parameters pane.
The Daz Original characters come with settings presets to turn normal maps on and off. You can just delete the normal maps in Surfaces or set the normal map slider to 0, too, but the settings presets make it easy. The settings presets are in Materials if you are looking in Smart Content.
Ah, that's my first problem, I am not in Smart Content (and resist the temptation to draw a parallel with that to my understanding of all this...)
You can find the settings presets just as easily in the Content Library. Just open the Ivan 7 product (not the HD addon).