a bump map is a JPG, PNG or other bitmap file in grayscale. I'm assuming by MAT you are making reference to a material of some sort, which is too general a term here to apply.
Like wancow said, a bump map is in grayscale, so the full color image is 'too much' information, to begin with. The next problem, a dark color will be converted to a darker shade of gray...this may or may not correspond to an actual dip or pit in the surface...it could just be a dark color.
For example a color map of red bricks, with a light colored mortar...the bricks would become dark gray with mortar being light gray or white...so the bricks would dip in and the mortar would bump out...completely wrong, compared to RL. You could invert the gray map, but then that causes other problems...
Like wancow said, a bump map is in grayscale, so the full color image is 'too much' information, to begin with. The next problem, a dark color will be converted to a darker shade of gray...this may or may not correspond to an actual dip or pit in the surface...it could just be a dark color.
For example a color map of red bricks, with a light colored mortar...the bricks would become dark gray with mortar being light gray or white...so the bricks would dip in and the mortar would bump out...completely wrong, compared to RL. You could invert the gray map, but then that causes other problems...
So I couldn't just take the .JPG of the torso MAT at reduce it to grayscale in PhotoShop?
(I ask because usually bump maps just look like the regular skin surface, but jusr reduced to grayscale. But maybe not...)
So I couldn't just take the .JPG of the torso MAT at reduce it to grayscale in PhotoShop?
(I ask because usually bump maps just look like the regular skin surface, but jusr reduced to grayscale. But maybe not...)
About 95% of the bump maps out there are useless because so many people do that without understanding how a bump map works.
Bump maps shift the normal of the object in the Z direction. The blue component of a Normal Map is the equivalent of a bump map. Some applications offer that as an option. The effect of a bump map also varies by camera angle
If I had a color photo of a red and white checkered linen tablecloth, converting to greyscale would give light and dark squares. This has no relation to the linen texture.
that's all true. When you're talking about skin textures and bumps, a decent bump map will look nothing at all like the texture. The bump map is what you use to adapt the texture's colour to augment the effect of the bump map, not vice versa.
But that's pretty advanced stuff.
Too, a bump map made for Poser will have a different effect in DAZ Studio, because DAZ Studio uses the 3Delight Render Engine, which has a zero value at grayscale 128. Everything below that is pushed down, everything above that is pushed up. In Poser's firefly black is zero, and everything is pushed up.
A bump map is affects only light. It does not affect the geometries. A bump map applied on the displacement channel actually affects geometries and when firefly or 3delight render they have what is called catmull-clark subdivision applied to the existing geometries and those polygons are what is pushed up or down by the displacement map. That is not to be confused with subdivision within DS (which is also catmull-clark, but the render subdivision is calculated on top of that if it is present).
bottom line is this: I wouldn't worry too much about it till you get deep into rendering. You already have a whole lot on your plate.
bottom line is this: I wouldn't worry too much about it till you get deep into rendering. You already have a whole lot on your plate.
Unless you are rendering very large images (over 4k x4k), extreme close ups or very elderly characters, most of the time a bump/displacement/normal map on the skin isn't worth the extra memory/calculations/render time, especially on areas that are likely to be covered with something else, like clothing...
I've used the regular image plenty of times in studio when there was nothing included to use as one and I was in a rush. It does not work with everything but things like stones and ground cover tends to have the right sort of light and shadow without to much that is a color that will confuse if it should go in or out.
wancow - I like your comment about having enough on my plate already! LOL. I must say this 3D stuff is fiendishly complicated, but I am just starting to feel the clouds clearing...
Don't know where I'd be without you guys tho, as there are so few videos about all this stuff on youtube!
Sertorial... if you do happen to attempt to convert to grayscale in Photoshop, I have a tip for you. When you open the image in PS (I have Photoshop CS6, so hopefully this tip will apply to older versions), also open the bumpmap you have for the face, as a separate document. Then, after converting the body to grayscale (actually, desaturate is more accurate. Converting to grayscale usually involves changing the image type), use the feature "Match Colors" in the Image/Adjustments menu. In the Match Colors window, you will be given an opportunity to select another image (in this case, the head bumpmap) to match the colors of the body. It works pretty well. I used it to create a Genital Map for M5 Benjamin, which does not include one. I used the GenMap for M5 James and "matched" colors with M5 Benjamin's torso map. Voila, perfect match. I don't see any reason it wouldn't work just as well for bump maps.
That being said, all of the other folks on here were correct in saying that you will get odd results because the skin texture is very different from a bump map. Maybe try inverting the newly desaturated body before you try color match. I would attempt to try this out for you, if you want, but I think you can get it just fine.
wancow - I like your comment about having enough on my plate already! LOL. I must say this 3D stuff is fiendishly complicated, but I am just starting to feel the clouds clearing...
Don't know where I'd be without you guys tho, as there are so few videos about all this stuff on youtube!
I don't use photoshop, but I always use XNView to convert images to grayscale. It has a simple pulldown command that makes it easy, then I edit in GIMP after.
So far as how complicated 3D is, I was showing some woman my Belle WIP and she says to me: "Oh, yeah, I do photoshop too..." in this arrogant way...
Then I showed her the file in DAZ Studio, and looked at her in all seriousness and said: "When you want to graduate from your crayons, come see me..."
People who've never played in 3D simply have no concept of how many layers there are to it and how much goes into getting a good render. Take it slow, play, and above all, enjoy it! When it becomes work, take a walk, go play baseball, or find your worst enemy and introduce him to your Louisville Slugger... then come back when you're ready to enjoy it again.
I guarantee these things: You'll spend an inordinate amount of time focussed on a single aspect of your project. It might be a hair model, it might be a specular or displacement map you have to get just right, it might be a pose! It might be adjusting a joint so a morph works better... That's what happens in 3D. It's fine art meets architecture meets choreography meets engineering meets photography. It is, quite possibly, the single most complex art form there is that can be managed by a single person...
Comments
a bump map is a JPG, PNG or other bitmap file in grayscale. I'm assuming by MAT you are making reference to a material of some sort, which is too general a term here to apply.
Short answer...no.
Like wancow said, a bump map is in grayscale, so the full color image is 'too much' information, to begin with. The next problem, a dark color will be converted to a darker shade of gray...this may or may not correspond to an actual dip or pit in the surface...it could just be a dark color.
For example a color map of red bricks, with a light colored mortar...the bricks would become dark gray with mortar being light gray or white...so the bricks would dip in and the mortar would bump out...completely wrong, compared to RL. You could invert the gray map, but then that causes other problems...
So I couldn't just take the .JPG of the torso MAT at reduce it to grayscale in PhotoShop?
(I ask because usually bump maps just look like the regular skin surface, but jusr reduced to grayscale. But maybe not...)
yes, you can do that. The results might be okay. It depends on what kind of surface you're working with.
About 95% of the bump maps out there are useless because so many people do that without understanding how a bump map works.
Bump maps shift the normal of the object in the Z direction. The blue component of a Normal Map is the equivalent of a bump map. Some applications offer that as an option. The effect of a bump map also varies by camera angle
If I had a color photo of a red and white checkered linen tablecloth, converting to greyscale would give light and dark squares. This has no relation to the linen texture.
You should find out what bump mapping is, try this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bump_mapping
that's all true. When you're talking about skin textures and bumps, a decent bump map will look nothing at all like the texture. The bump map is what you use to adapt the texture's colour to augment the effect of the bump map, not vice versa.
But that's pretty advanced stuff.
Too, a bump map made for Poser will have a different effect in DAZ Studio, because DAZ Studio uses the 3Delight Render Engine, which has a zero value at grayscale 128. Everything below that is pushed down, everything above that is pushed up. In Poser's firefly black is zero, and everything is pushed up.
A bump map is affects only light. It does not affect the geometries. A bump map applied on the displacement channel actually affects geometries and when firefly or 3delight render they have what is called catmull-clark subdivision applied to the existing geometries and those polygons are what is pushed up or down by the displacement map. That is not to be confused with subdivision within DS (which is also catmull-clark, but the render subdivision is calculated on top of that if it is present).
bottom line is this: I wouldn't worry too much about it till you get deep into rendering. You already have a whole lot on your plate.
Unless you are rendering very large images (over 4k x4k), extreme close ups or very elderly characters, most of the time a bump/displacement/normal map on the skin isn't worth the extra memory/calculations/render time, especially on areas that are likely to be covered with something else, like clothing...
I've used the regular image plenty of times in studio when there was nothing included to use as one and I was in a rush. It does not work with everything but things like stones and ground cover tends to have the right sort of light and shadow without to much that is a color that will confuse if it should go in or out.
Thanks everyone. Much appreciated.
wancow - I like your comment about having enough on my plate already! LOL. I must say this 3D stuff is fiendishly complicated, but I am just starting to feel the clouds clearing...
Don't know where I'd be without you guys tho, as there are so few videos about all this stuff on youtube!
Sertorial... if you do happen to attempt to convert to grayscale in Photoshop, I have a tip for you. When you open the image in PS (I have Photoshop CS6, so hopefully this tip will apply to older versions), also open the bumpmap you have for the face, as a separate document. Then, after converting the body to grayscale (actually, desaturate is more accurate. Converting to grayscale usually involves changing the image type), use the feature "Match Colors" in the Image/Adjustments menu. In the Match Colors window, you will be given an opportunity to select another image (in this case, the head bumpmap) to match the colors of the body. It works pretty well. I used it to create a Genital Map for M5 Benjamin, which does not include one. I used the GenMap for M5 James and "matched" colors with M5 Benjamin's torso map. Voila, perfect match. I don't see any reason it wouldn't work just as well for bump maps.
That being said, all of the other folks on here were correct in saying that you will get odd results because the skin texture is very different from a bump map. Maybe try inverting the newly desaturated body before you try color match. I would attempt to try this out for you, if you want, but I think you can get it just fine.
I don't use photoshop, but I always use XNView to convert images to grayscale. It has a simple pulldown command that makes it easy, then I edit in GIMP after.
So far as how complicated 3D is, I was showing some woman my Belle WIP and she says to me: "Oh, yeah, I do photoshop too..." in this arrogant way...
Then I showed her the file in DAZ Studio, and looked at her in all seriousness and said: "When you want to graduate from your crayons, come see me..."
People who've never played in 3D simply have no concept of how many layers there are to it and how much goes into getting a good render. Take it slow, play, and above all, enjoy it! When it becomes work, take a walk, go play baseball, or find your worst enemy and introduce him to your Louisville Slugger... then come back when you're ready to enjoy it again.
I guarantee these things: You'll spend an inordinate amount of time focussed on a single aspect of your project. It might be a hair model, it might be a specular or displacement map you have to get just right, it might be a pose! It might be adjusting a joint so a morph works better... That's what happens in 3D. It's fine art meets architecture meets choreography meets engineering meets photography. It is, quite possibly, the single most complex art form there is that can be managed by a single person...