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One more thing to report concerning the DIM:
I find it bizarre at best that the zips are larger than the exe files since DIM downloads so friggin' fast!
What zips have you found that are larger than the exe's? They're always about 5MB smaller.
DIM does download awfully fast.
I haven't. But there have been reports by ManStan that they're bigger.
Yes. Some times just a couple of meg, some times twice as big. But I will admit, I have only checked a few items when I was purging; lol, my old Mat and Maddie runtime. I'll check this further as I achieve other figures. I'm trying to clear out at least 25 gig of old unused content.
And what is the hardest part? finding the item in my order history lol But for Dartanbeck I'll do some deeper research. :)
I think we've already covered this
See the structure lists above. Those are existing structures.
That's exactly the feature that it needs, the ability to convert incorrect zips. At the very least, DIM needs to be able to recognize a file structure that will 'gum up the works', warn the user, and copy the archive to a temp folder so that the user can straighten them out if they so desire.
Well, as I said, I realize it's a Beta, that's why I'm not discarding it. It has potential and it has time. All it needs is for it's dev's to see that potential, in time, and exploit it to the advantage of us all.
:coolgrin:
Just for the record, I like the DIM and I have no problems using it, but until they work out the bugs, I have to use it one item at a time to work out the bugs myself.
That is why 'knowing how' is so very important. I can do all the work myself, as ManStan does, or I can use the loaders. It makes less difference to me than it does to him, apparently, but I see nothing wrong with his viewpoint on this. There's a lot to be said for the do-it-yourself style.
I believe the biggest problem with new users not understanding how the file structure works is the lack of what some call the 'dumbed-down' instructions. I can say from personal experience, that 3D modelling is appealing to users at all levels of experience. The problem is that the most experienced users give a lot of the answers to the new users. While this is a good thing, and keep in mind I am NOT speaking of anyone in this thread, I have seen many threads where the 'help' given, is given at such high levels of tech-speak, or interspersed with so much program-specific jargon, that a new-level user is completely lost by what two experienced users consider 'absolutely understandable' terms.
If a team of people could get together and write basic, step by step tutorials in plain english, instead of technical jargon, They would have less dazed DAZ users. ;-P
So far
exe zip
357Magnum 6.91m 7.25m
dave 3 3piece suit 40.14m 39.8
Dave head morphs 18.1 20.7
David body morphs 10.2 11.6
Note: the 3 piece suit went from 2 installers to 1 zip.
Interesting. I lost all my backups, so I can't compare those. Did you check what was different about the content?
Having a Content folder under My Library is definitely wrong -- I've found a few zips which have that error.
I have to agree that hte D|S library structure is just horrible. Being very new to actually installing to D|S (since Genesis), I had no clue that it was so borked. I've been playing around with D|S since beta version 0.7, but always used my runtimes structure. But when I bought a Genesis product that installed to the wrong location, and contacted support regarding the problem, they literally fixed it in the store downloads the very next day. What gets me is how incredibly simply these folder tructures are to follow, once you get used to them. Seeing a folder out of place on a single product at a time is really simple. So why is it so incredibly wrong? The instructions for product submission demand that you follow the structure - and like I just said, a structure that's really simple to follow if you want your content to work. This whole thing just messes with my brain. Perhaps it's due to changes in library structures over many years or something? I hope so - because the best resolution I can find right now is to try and keep the My Daz3d Library strictly for Genesis products, and use Poser Runtimes for the rest. At least until a solid structure is tried and proven.
The problems that I've dislike about Poser runtimes getting out of hand isn't from Daz3d. They were the one's who had the most organized structure that I've seen - along with several others. Sure you can fix it on an individual basis, instead of simply dragging the runtime folder to where it belongs, but it was a while before I realized what was going on - because I was using the content more than looking at the folder structures. I guess I'm just bummed that the content creators themselves cannot at the very least stick with the structure. When there's already a common place within the structure where everybody's supposed to put this type of file, put your files in that place - not a brand new one. Brand new one's suck!
I'm still going to strive to include D|S into my work flow, but I guess D|S only content will not be part of that - with the exception of Genesis and it's related product, which all seem to have been pretty good at behaving the structure laid before them.
This is what I mean by "Allowing DIM to load everything still leaves many files in the wrong place"
Follow closely:
Opening C:\Users\Public\Documents\My DAZ 3D Library, the first folder here is:
C:\Users\Public\Documents\My DAZ 3D Library\Aiko 3\Clothing\Materials\Elea Outfit
Just one outfit and nothing more to do with Aiko 3
The next likely poorly placed folder is:
C:\Users\Public\Documents\My DAZ 3D Library\Camera Presets\Alchemy Chasm
Once again, the only thing here is a camera preset for Alchemy Chasm
C:\Users\Public\Documents\My DAZ 3D Library\Architecture\Opus Magnum
I know I have more Architecture...somewhere
C:\Users\Public\Documents\My DAZ 3D Library\Dystopia\City Blocks
A good place for this would be Architecture
C:\Users\Public\Documents\My DAZ 3D Library\Environment\CheyenneAcc
C:\Users\Public\Documents\My DAZ 3D Library\Environment\Nerd3D\Cave System
now watch this...
C:\Users\Public\Documents\My DAZ 3D Library\Environments\Architecture -- notice the 's'
This folder has 48 different items in it.
C:\Users\Public\Documents\My DAZ 3D Library\Environments\DAZ Environment\Millenium Environment\Lands_of_the_Sun
This one is a bit lonely
C:\Users\Public\Documents\My DAZ 3D Library\Environments\Nature\Lisa'sBotanicals\Dahlia
C:\Users\Public\Documents\My DAZ 3D Library\Environments\Nature\Lisa'sBotanicals\GlobeThistle
C:\Users\Public\Documents\My DAZ 3D Library\Environments\The Core\Space Relic
Hair!
C:\Users\Public\Documents\My DAZ 3D Library\Hair\AprilYSH
wait, what, that's it?
This is fun...
C:\Users\Public\Documents\My DAZ 3D Library\Light Presets
I have 5 items in here...
C:\Users\Public\Documents\My DAZ 3D Library\Lights
and 4 in here...why aren't these in presets?. Or, why aren't the presets in here?
All those Materials! We are spirits...
C:\Users\Public\Documents\My DAZ 3D Library\Materials
All five of us?
Merlin gets his own folder on the top level... Important guy, I guess
C:\Users\Public\Documents\My DAZ 3D Library\Merlin\Saxon
I guess Merlin isn't the only one who rates top billing
C:\Users\Public\Documents\My DAZ 3D Library\P3DA\P3DA_Troglodyte
People!
C:\Users\Public\Documents\My DAZ 3D Library\People
C:\Users\Public\Documents\My DAZ 3D Library\People\Aiko\Aiko 3\Clothing\Sacred Luna\deeana
but that's just clothes
C:\Users\Public\Documents\My DAZ 3D Library\People\Aiko 3
This has 4 clothing outfits and a Hair
This begs the question, does Aiko 3 belong here or up one level with Aiko 3
C:\Users\Public\Documents\My DAZ 3D Library\People\Aiko 4\Textures\Anime
Nothing here but Anime Textures
C:\Users\Public\Documents\My DAZ 3D Library\People\David\Clothing\David Morphing Clothes\Travelor\Buckled
Wow, all those sub-folders for one clothing texture
C:\Users\Public\Documents\My DAZ 3D Library\People\David\Clothing\TheTravalor
Ok, is it TheTravalor or Travelor?
C:\Users\Public\Documents\My DAZ 3D Library\People\David 3\Clothing\David Morphing Clothes\Travalor\HMGWatchers
Another long way down for one clothing Texture, and look! a third spelling!
C:\Users\Public\Documents\My DAZ 3D Library\People\David 3\MAT Century Suit
Well at least there's MATs in here for an outfit I can't find in here...
This is cute...
C:\Users\Public\Documents\My DAZ 3D Library\Content
This contains Architecture, data, Materials, People, Props, and Runtime
C:\Users\Public\Documents\My DAZ 3D Library\Content\Runtime
this contains textures and a Content
C:\Users\Public\Documents\My DAZ 3D Library\Content\Runtime\Content
this contains an empty readme folder
Hey, here's another Runtime
C:\Users\Public\Documents\My DAZ 3D Library\Runtime
Had enough? Cause really, I could go on all night. Well, I couldn't, but these misplaced folders do.
All of these were placed by DIM, by default location.
I have provided some screens, but I'm getting tired so this should be enough to get my point across.
That's what I, and I'm sure ManStan as well, mean when we talk about bad file and folder placement.
All of this has to be redone in one form or another. Either by having DIM uninstall, then reinstall for each specific messed up item, or by manually cutting and pasting these files to their proper place, or even using D|S cataloging to virtual locations (which still consumes time).
If they were done right in the first place, we wouldn't have to spend that extra time doing it ourselves. no matter what method you prefer.
But they weren't done right in the first place, and that's the whole point, right there.
Interesting. I lost all my backups, so I can't compare those. Did you check what was different about the content?
David's tunic exe is 3.83m, the zip is 4.09. They both create a 14.9 folder with identical files.
staticdrifter that is because DAZ has 5-6 different type EXEs out, that want to install to 4 different places One of the bonuses to installing to a dummy folder before drag and dropping to the "my library" folder is avoiding imbedded runtime/content folders.
It's been my experience when installing older content; like before the content folder went to my library, if it can't find a content folder to install to it will create one.
Hi Static drifter,.
Now I see what you mean,.. The internal organisation of the folders within the main "Library" folder is not to your liking. and you want to spend time reorganising it,. that's fair enough, and you're right to point out that some products are installed to Environment, and some to Environments, and there are other folder inconsistencies.
Fortunately,. the most important fact is that the product is within the main "Library", and that the files for those products are in their correct respective locations,. which means that whether the product is installed to environment or environments, that the product installs and works as expected.
Now,. one other thing to bear in mind,..
Over the past couple of months,. Daz3D have built DIM, and converted most of the products in the store, by adding meta-data and tag's to each of those products,. so that two things can happen,.. the database can organise the products based on tags / meta-data,. and the physical product can be updated more easily.
In the process of changing those products to ZIP,. some issues may have been missed with folder names,. ( it's a beta),. and it's hoped that anyone finding issues like these would report them in the Bug tracker,. so that they can be resolved.
I don't have every product,. so I can't check your Aiko3 / Clothing, but, I think that one should be reported
(My DAZ 3D Library\Aiko 3\) does not seem correct.
ultimately it makes no difference when using the product, whether it's located in clothing / aiko3, or in aiko3 /clothing,. as long as the structure of the installed files,.. retains the structure of original product,. then the product will work as the developer intended.
7-zip Rules!
Yeah, that's what I was trying to get across, but I wasn't being clear, I guess. Thanks for bringing it up concisely.
I have been doing it individually, like you do, for a while, but I wanted to give DIM a try. I always give the 'new kid' a try. Then I was trying to point out the good points and bad, in comparison. I am with you in sentiment, I just try to go with the new 'innovations' because, all told, I have much less content to deal with than you do, so I keep hoping DAZ will make something that will manage my stuff without screwing it up. (I'm a 'vote for the underdog' guy).
I just hope that when they do get the bugs worked out of the system, they consider working with more than just DAZ content, because, as I am sure you well know, that while they may be the source of a majority of excellent works, there is a much, much larger percentage of upgrades and improvements than there are originals.
Fight the good fight!
I understand that the product ultimately works, but if you can't find it, or if you lose track of why you desire it while your trying to locate it, then penultimately, it degrades the use and value of the product.
And in "Art", that is not a good thing.
That's what I have been trying to get across about this. The product works, but it does not work well. Not that the product can't be used, but that it is a nuisance to use. Sometimes.
There. I'm done griping :)
Your right though, 3dage. When I freaked about the folders and such, it still has it's place in the file system and works properly. Now I just have to learn where to go for the stuff, since 8.5 shows all of those folders.