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Looking at the image you provided, I see more poke-through (skin) on the jeans than the jeans poking through the shirt. What I can't see, so I need to ask, is whether or not you have Smoothing enabled on both items? (dForce may have disabled it when you hit Simulate.) That may help some. However, to get the shirt to fall over the pants, you could try setting Collision Offset to a higher value on the shirt. For example, they are both probably set to 0.20 by default. Try running the sim with the shirt set to 0.50.
As for the deformation of the back pockets, I'm not sure what to do there. The "easiest" solution may be to remove them using the Geometry Tool. {There are several posts in this thread on how to use the tool. Basically, you would select the pockets' mesh with the tool, hide the mesh, and then delete the hidden polygons.) That's assuming the pockets are on top of the jeans, but the way they are distorting makes me think they are.
I'd be happy to test these and see what I can find, but without the actual product name, (or names,) I have no way of knowing if I have them in my runtime. If you don't know which products these are, it is sometimes helpful to check the full path to one of the images in the surfaces tab. Worth a look, anyway. Let me know if you determine what products these are from.
I used the shirt from this set: https://www.daz3d.com/classy-flounce-skirt-and-top and the pants from this one: https://www.daz3d.com/womens-jeans-and-top ; and I scaled them to size and used morphs on genesis 8 to make sure her limbs fit into the clothing items properly, then used the animation timeline to build the shape back into the form before posing it properly.
Any ideas on why capes and cloaks get the sides of them wrapped up in each other during draping?
It happens with both this item: https://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/ods-dynamic-long-cape/28171 and these: https://www.daz3d.com/idg-dforce--cloaks-and-capes( although I scaled this up some to make the capes longer for my purposes, dunno if that contributed to the issue). I can get some screens of it if you like.
I'm not going to assume anything, so bear with me here… Are you saying posing the figure is part of the timeline? Or that you're posing the figure after the animation is complete?
One of the dForce settings for the material zones is "Self Collide." Try setting that to off. In my experience, it actually causes the materials to attempt to collide. I do have the IDG product, though I've not yet tried using it. I'll have to take a look and see if I can give you a specific answer.
The posing is a part of the animation timeline.
I've tried disabling self collide and it didnt seem to help much.
Sorry for the delay. I've been working on a scene that was really taxing my system. It's done and in the galleries now, so I have more cpu power to look into this further, albeit with different clothing.
But first, for the capes and cloaks, give some of these options a try. (A combination of two or more might work, but try each separately to see what influence they have on the drape.)
Using a Wind Node may help, too, but I haven't been using them so I don't have any info to help you with this, other than having read a comment that the default setting is way too strong and needs to be set much lower.
@dacon2000_fa762f612c, I downloaded the cape from Rendo. You didn't mention it was a Poser Dynamic Cloth item. I can't find it now, but I'm sure I read somewhere to export the item as an object, then import the object and work from that. I tried draping the cape first, and the front ends kept twisting around, as well as the cloth intersecting with itself where the folds fell. I then exported the cape as a Wavefront OBJ and imported it back into Daz Studio. I got much better results. The front still wants to get funky, but having a pose with one arm up might help. (And I wasn't using the timeline.) But the folds fell all around without intersecting. Only the front intersected.
That cape is really long. I can see where having it flowing out behind a supehero landing could look really spectacular, but if you just want it draping around an earth-bound figure, it might help to shorten it. I'm going to give that a try and see what happens. Are you familiar with using the Geometry Editor? You can use it to hide a few rows of polys at the bottom of the cape and then Delete the hidden polys.
I thought I did, but I don't have IDG Cloaks and Capes, I have their Ponchos & Tabards, as well as the Scarves and Shawls.
ETA: I got better results after I shortened the cape. Even better results after I removed even more polys on either side of the split. I think you're having so much trouble because there's just too much "cloth". It looks really good when it drapes without interesecting, though.
A couple of things I tried that had positive results: Set the contraction-Expansion Ratio to 98%; Set Damping to 0.50. I also found Self Collide On gave better results than Off, and I set my Timeline for 90 frames, even though the pose was complete at 30. That gave me extra time for the drape to settle, as well as more frames to choose the final drape from.
Thank you for this thread. I've been playing with DForce on some custom dresses, and your step-by-step guides for morphs, etc., are extremely helpful.
Playing around with D-Force a bit before work but wanted to make a cape but have no idea how to pin the top of the cape so the whole thing doesn't slide out of the viewport! lmao
1) Created a simple plane, set the creation to Ft and used 5, divided it by 50
2) Used the D-Formers to make it bend around his shoulders, then into ZBrush to improve upon that. Saved it out and imported it into DS
3) Created a prop to figure in rigging and had it inherit the figures bones but only one bone was transfered over but I think that's all that's needed
4) Set up the surfaces as I want a nice border around the cape so now it has Border and Cape as the two surfaces
5) Set up the weights. Left the top of the cape at a light blue and the rest full on red to make sure it draped nicely
6) Added in the D-Force surfaces and simulated... cape drapes right out of the viewport
7) Here I am! lmao
So do I need to add in some other primatives or something to tie it the top ends of the cape in order to pin it or is there is method of pinning that I'm not aware of yet?
Thanks for the help! :-)
Have a couple of options. The easiest is to create a material zone where the cape attaches to the shoulder. When you create the dforce modifier, you will have a new simulation channel in the surfaces tab for each material zone. Turn the dynamic parameter to zero in the surfaces simulation channel for the new material zone that you created. The material zone with dynamic set to zero will stay attached. Note - best to use the transfer utility to make the cape conforming first, then the material zone set to zero will behave like conforming and move with the shoulders, and the rest of the cape will drape from the attachment.
Ah, that makes sense. OK. Thank you very much!
Your cape is a lot like the towel in RGcincy's thread. If you haven't already, I think you should take a look at that too: Hanging Towel.
I'd do things a bit differently than Diomede. (Or RGcincy, for that matter.
)
Looking at your attached image, I think the shoulder ends are too far away from the figure.
(I very seldom use the "brush" to paint weights for dForce, preferring to combine Fill Selected and Smooth Selected for a more uniform look.)
If that doesn't keep the ends in place, you could try using a small flattened sphere on each shoulder as an anchor, with the "fabric" intersecting the sphere. You can always hide the spheres later.
Your image is Smooth Shaded instead of Wire Shaded, so I can't tell if you used the x-scale to reduce the width, or if you removed the polygons. My preference would be to remove the polys so they remain square. I'd also start out with at least 100 divisions for more and smaller polys.
I hope this helps.
Using your tips and using a primitive to block the cape from intersecting have given great results thanks again, your knowledge is very helpful.
You're welcome.
If you get a chance, I'd love to see the results. (TOS Compliant, of course.
)
You've inspired me to play around with dForce and the Medieval Cloaks as part of a project I'm working on. Here I've applied it to the Cape and to the Fantasy Wrap underneath.
Also available in my gallery
Great job, looks good. Was it straightforward or did you have to work to get it like that?
A bit of both.
Good news is that both items take to dforce really well - I just made them dynamic, and then used the weight brush to make a non-dynamic area around her neck and shoulders. The wrap comes with two surfaces - outer and inner - and seems to work a lot better if you remove the inner one with the geometry editor first. I also removed the waist rope because it doesn't autofit well to G2F (oh how I wish they made a version of this Fantasy Wrap for later Genesises, it's so much nicer than the new one). I think, if I were doing it again that I'd keep the part of the waist rope that actually goes round the waist, set it to non-dynamic, and hide it with opacity. That way it still affects the drape of the cloth, but can be replaced by a better looking rope prop before rendering.
Anyhow, the bad news is that getting her to sit down was tricky. I'd hoped to start her in the memorised T pose, then have her change to the sitting pose when dforcing. But whenever I tried that it crashed out part way though. I ended up having to do an animation where she starts hovering above the chair with wrap and cape bent roughtly to shape using their built-in morphs, and finishing with her seated. Once I'd done that, the simulation ran quite happily, though it took a few goes before I got a drape that I totally liked to look of.
I'm delighted to hear you've been inspired by the thread. I really like what you've done here.
I have noticed one issue, (but it took me awhile before I noticed.) the Cape is intersecting the Fantasy Wrap at her right thigh and knee. I'm going to assume you have smoothing on both garments. It might help to set the Cape collision to the wrap rather than the figure. Although that might cause issues where the Cape lies against her skin instead of the wrap. There is also an offset parameter in the dForce settings for the material zones. (Render computer is off, so doing this from memory.) Leave the offset for the wrap at the default, (0.20, I think,) and set the cape to something a bit higher. Maybe 0.30 or 0.40.
It may even be possible to run the simulation again, spot render the affected area and layer the correction over the finished image. I've notice the results of an animated simulation are frequently the same, if you haven't changed anything in the animation. Though changing the Smoothing Collision and/or simulation Offset may be enough to make it different. If it were my render I'd try. But do note, I'm a recovering perfectionist, (whose recovery hit a setback when I got into 3D art!) I hate that I notice the intersecting cloth, but I thought you might want some ideas on how to fix it.
Overall, this is a wonderful image. The lighting is perfect, and the guards in the shadows behind the throne give this a cinematic feel. Well done, @chris-2599934. Well done.
Here's another recent product, Sorceress Apprentice Outfit for G8F, that isn't "dForce" but seems to take dForce well.
Defender of the Art
The pose I used on Edie 8 is actually for G8M, with minor tweaks. The stance of her lower half left the skirt bent forward from the waist, with her legs also too wide for the skirt. It seems to be a common feature of long skirts to not conform to the legs of the figure, but use movement morphs and even pose controls to put move the skirt into a pleasing position. I'm not complaining. I've seen how distorted a skirt can become with an extreme stance and find the movement bones and/or movement morphs to be the better alternative.
However, if one's computer can handle it, I think dForce is the best alternative. So rather than spend a lot of time trying to make the various skirt morphs work, I turned to dForce.
The top of the dress, (bodice and sleeves,) is conforming and fit the pose just fine, with the exception of the cuffs which defied gravity by following the wrist and hand. Having identified that only the cuffs and the skirt needed to be draped, I used the influence Weight Map to set the cuffs and skirt to 100% and the rest of the dress to 20%. I also used Weight Smoothing to create a soft transition between the cuffs and the sleeves. Here are a couple of viewport draws to show the weight maps.
I did modify the Bend Stiffness on both material zones, lowering it to 0.20 and for the sleeves, I lowered the Density (GSM) to 150. And I used my typical Simulation Settings of Animated (Use Timeline Play Range) with total frames set to 61 and the pose applied at Frame 30.
There were some gaps on the bodice, between material zones near the underarm area, but enabling Mesh Smoothing in the Parameters tab took care of that.
Sometimes all you need is a little bit of dForce…
Asking Directions
There were two issues with this scene: the undershirt of The Huntsman for G3F didn't bend enough with the left leg; and while there were a lot of bones in the reins for posing, they didn't hang down smoothly as real reins would do.
After positioning the reins as close to what I needed as possible, without intersecting each other or the man's hand, I was able to Simulate them, (0% weight on the rest of the bridle,) to get a natural, smooth bend.
As for the outfit, it fit well enough conforming. I used one dForm on the undershirt, Influence and weight map rather than sphere, and moved the left hem to lay against the pants. That caused the vest to intersect, so I used two dForms, (Influence, of course,) and moved the left hem of the vest to lay against the undershirt. It took less time to create these two morphs than it did to use dForce on the reins. However, the only reason I've gotten good with weight maps is because of dForce!
ETA: Here is a render to show the reins detail. I've removed the HDR lighting and the Base Color image maps from the horse.
There are a number of wardrobe products that came out before dForce that I liked when I first saw them listed, but found reasons to "just say no" when I looked at the promo images. Fifth Avenue Outfit for G3F is one of those outfits, for me. Looking at the promos, I didn't like the way the fabric hovered slightly above her shoulders, the skirt was too short, (and didn't have a lengthening morph,) and the overlap of the wraparound skirt was so small, the slit went too high. (In my opinion, of course.)
I picked it up the other day, when I needed a second item to get the higher discount on Oso's new shaders, and immediately set about "fixing" it using dForce! Et voilà!
Actually, I wasn't all that happy with this drape. I didn't notice it until I was rendering the 2000 x 2600 pixel image, but the left and right edges of the skirt were intersecting. I stopped the render and fixed the skirt using a dForm, and started a new render. (I'm going to assume it is all the instances of vines, but with the Romantic Pool set, this rendered very slowly on my GTX1080, at about 700 samples per hour—a typical L'Adair image renders in the 2000 to 2500 samples per hour range!) After the image finished rendering to 5K samples the next day, I set about finding a better solution to the intersecting skirt…
First, I'd like to point out, this is definitely not a one step dForce change. The skirt mesh is not welded to the "belt" and the two straps are separate as well. The ends of the straps intersect the pseudo-bandeau top, as well as the figure. The first thing I did after loading the dress onto the base figure, to find potential problems, was to apply the dForce dynamic modifier to the dress and run a simple simulation with the default settings on all the zones. That sim showed me the top and the "belt" didn't need any dForce, just the straps and the skirt, (as I suspected.)
Second, all the Simulation material zone settings and Simulation Settings are left at default except for those specifically stated as changed.
Third, I used my usual simulation setup—Start Bones From Memorized Pose: Off; Frames To Simulate: Animated (Use Timeline Play Range); and for the Timeline Total: 61; Range: 0 to 60; Pose applied to the figure at Frame 30, with adjustments to the pose later on, as necessary. For example, the left hand intersects with the clothing in the finished pose, so I modified the pose at Frame 30 so that the hand wasn't yet to the clothing, added a key frame at Frame 59, and brought the hand into place at Frame 60.
The dForce Weight Maps
In the Material settings, I set the Dynamics Strength to 0.00 for the Top and 0.20 for the Belt. I then created a new dForce Modifier Weight Node to control the influence of the simulation on the straps and skirt. Both zones needed full strength for all but the "seam" edges, where in real life they would have been sewn to the "belt":
(Notice the dropped shoulder from the T-Pose. That allowed the one strap to shift a bit to the side as one would expect for the final pose.)
The Skirt
To lengthen the skirt, I set the dForce material setting Contraction-Expansion Ratio to 120%. This expanded the skirt horizontally as well as vertically, with the minimal Weight at the top preventing the skirt from expanding at the waist. And as the sim continued, the "fabric draped longer, down to her knees. Other Simulation settings for the skirt are Friction: 0.10; Bend Stiffness: 0.20; Density (GSM): 150.00; Velocity Smoothing: 0.4; and Velocity Smoothing Iterations: 4. With these settings, however, it turrned out the two edges of the overlapping skirt intersected during the simulation, rather than hanging free of each other.
To fix the skirt where it intersected, I used a dForm to rotate the front fabric forward just enough to prevent the intersect. I set the dForm Influence to Weight Map, selected the polys I wanted to move, and painted the weights using the brush:
The left image above, with the Weight Map painted in, shows exactly where the two edges of fabric intersect.The right image is after making changes. It's not ideal, but with the textures applied, it is less obvious. What bothered me more was the flat "folds" above the painted area. Between the two issues, I decided to try again with dForce, looking for changes to make to the skirt before simulating to fix both problems without the use of dForms.
I figured it out, but I'll cover that in a subsquent post.
There was one more issue with the skirt. Using such a low Bend Stiffness and reduced Density (GSM), the skirt fabric ended up very form-fitting over the buttocks. To combat that, I added a pair of panties to the figure. While I had many to choose from, I went with the panties from Yulia's Finery because they covered more of the backside and were reasonably smooth all over, and didn't produce "panty lines." Below, the left image is without the panties and the right image is with them.
The Straps
Remember the full dress weight map images I shared earlier? Like the skirt, the straps were 100% weight except at the "seams." But unlike the skirt, I actually want the straps to be shorter, to look like they are resting on the figure and holding up the dress, while not laying against the skin between the shoulder and the top curve of the breast. To do this, I set the Contraction-Expansion Ratio to 95%. The other Simulation settings for the straps are Friction: 0.20; Bend Stiffness: 0.35; and Density (GSM): 150.00.
Once the sim was complete to my satisfaction, (before I discovered the overlap issue,) I followed these instructions and created a morph out of the simulation.
That was a lot of work but it looks so much better. Thanks for the detailed explanation!
By the way, I forgot to mention I'm using the current Beta, version 4.11.0.196. I was pleasantly surprised the skirt didn't explode when the two sides intersected. dForce is definitely coming along!
Thank you, Rich. I've been more willing to buy older products because of dForce, but so far, it's never been a quick, straightforward process. The results are usually worth the extra effort, though, imho.
I spent more time on the skirt to get a drape that doesn't intersect. I tried using some of the movement morphs before draping, but they distort the fabric even before the simulation, with less than acceptable results. I ended up testing different material dForce settings until I achieved a result that still lengthened the skirt, but without intersecting.
I did stumble upon an interesting result, though. For the purpose of making the front right and front left edges different colors to see where they "caught" during my tests, I used the Geometry Editor to split the skirt into right and left halves. With two material zones for the skirt, the first test drape using the same settings as the post above had a better result than when the skirt was a single material zone.
Here is the resulting drape, along with the material settings that I changed. (All other material settings for the skirt are at default.) I did remove the Base Color texture and apply different colors to my two new material zones, for display purposes.
And here is the back view.
And finally, here is the figure in her "new" dress, (without background or shadows.)
Totally unrelated, I discovered that if the DrawStyle Option is set to "NVIDIA Iray," Save Last Draw… will save the Iray rendered version of the viewport. (Notice the two images of the skirt with the two-tones above.) At least, in the current Beta. I haven't tested it in my 4.9 install, though I suspect it will do the same.
I just stumbled across a nifty little script that is part of the Genesis 8 Developer Kit, included with the Genesis 8 Starter Essentials. That means this script has been available for around a year and a half, and I didn't even know it existed!
What is it?
It's called "Export Base Resolution OBJ" and it does exactly what it says. Why is that nifty? Because you don't have to go into the Parameters and change Resolution of the item to Base, and then remember to put it back to High Resolution when you're ready to render. Just select the item to export and click on the Script icon. It does bypass the dialog window though. I'm going to check further, but I suspect it uses the default Daz export settings.
Assuming I'm right, this one script can replace steps 3 & 4 of the instructions for Turning Your Perfect Simulation Into A Morph. I can't begin to count the number of times I've exported the object, cleared the simulation and had the Morph Loader process fail because I forgot to change the resolution. And I've already cleared the simulation!
Sorry, wrong thread...
Life has been busy, in real life and in Daz Studio, but I now have another dforce image to share:
Baldric WIP
I used dForce on both the jeans and the tank top. The jeans and shoes are from Street Style Outfit G8M and the tank is from Hellfire Outfit G8M.
I started out with the jeans—I specifically liked the rips in the legs—but the way they bent in this pose was truly awful. They are loose fitting jeans that fit away from the leg, but with such extreme bends as this kneeling pose, standing away from the legs was unnatural, and the fabric of the left leg was intersecting the torso. After applying the dForce Dynamic Surface modifier, I added a dForce Weight Node, and lowered the influence around the waist to keep the belt and belt loops in place. The shoes were an issue, too. The tongue can be moved closer to the leg, as I have it here, but interferes with the bottom of the jeans. I had to tweak the weight node map, lowering the influence a bit on the lower legs to keep some of those great folds. And I lowered the influence across the front pelvic area, too.
Here are some Viewport draws of the weight map.
As usual, I ran the simulation over the Timeline, letting the tongue of the shoes close at Frame 30, where the pose is complete. Happy with the results, I froze the simulation and went looking for a shirt. I should mention, I had already added the tattoe to his arm, so I needed a sleeveless top. I tried several, and ulitmately decided on the Hellfire top because it's not long, and therefore easier to get under the waist of the jeans. In front, at least. I didn't want to deal with poke-through of the belt and belt loops. (A large scene like the one I'm working on takes more than enough time as it is. No need to stretch it out even more over some belt loops, imo.)
The Helfire shirt posed a different sort of problem, though. Conforming to Baldric's shape was… interesting. But not very realistic. That sent me back to dForce.
I created a Weight Map node and attempted to keep some of the modeled in wrinkles by lowering the influence. It didn't work, at least to my satisfaction. So I reset the weight back to 100%. I didn't want to mess with the simulation on the jeans, but at Frame 0, the top was intesecting the dForced jeans. Getting creative, I set the scale on the x-axis of the jeans to 110% and 120% on the z-axis. At Frame 30, I set both back to 100%. Because of my experiments with influence on the wrinkles, it took several tries, but I finally got a drape I was satisfied with. I then froze the simulation for the shirt, as well.
One more thing. I didn't decide to use Jepe's Bodyhair Project 78 until after I'd simulated the clothes. The Bodyhair's strength is it uses transmaps, on a geometry shell. But the shell is offset from the skin some what, and it was intersecting both the jeans and the top in places. Rather than simulate both items again, I set the Collision Item to Bodyhair shell in the Mesh Smoothing parameters. It worked perfectly with the jeans, but the chest hair uses some displacement, and it was poking through the shirt.
I decided to try something I read in the fourms, that didn't make sense to me at the time. I'm now a lot more comfortable with weight maps and how the nodes work, thanks to dForce. So I added a Push Modifier to the top and created a Push Modifier Weight Node. I filled the weigth node with 0% weight, then selected two rows of polys along the edges of the neck and armholes. And then I inverted the selection. With the Draw Mode in Nvidia Iray, I filled the weight now with 5% weight. From there I added 1% and filled again, repeating that until none of the hair poked through. And because I isolated the edges first, it added a nice bit of thickness, too..
Here's an up-close detail of the map, showing the edges.
As you can see by the light blue color, it didn't take much. I ended up using 8% weight, on the default Offset of 1. (The same effect could have been accomplished by setting the edges to 0% while leaving the rest of the shirt infuence at 100% and then lowering the Offset.)
So what did the clothing look like before I applied dForce? Here are several Viewport Draws I saved to show you. (Thumbnails link to full-size image.)
These are, in order, Front, Left Side, Back, Right Side, Left Waist Detail, and Front Detail, (shows intersecting at the waist, and stretch/distortion at the crotch.)
And here are the "after" images. These four images show the jeans after simulation. The better fit is readily apparent. These are, in order, Front, Left Side, Back and Right Side.
And these three image show the tank top. The first two images are the Front and Back after simulation, and the last image is a detail shot of the shoulders before simulation. Notice both the odd way the fabric bends at the collarbone, and the gap between the back of the shirt and the back of Baldric's Upper Chest.
This is a great thread, didn‘t discover it until now. Thank you L‘Adair!
I'm glad you like it. Thanks for stopping in and commenting. Made my day!
Which thread in the index covers draping conforming clothing and forcing collars & buttons & pockets & such to stay put. I'm trying to mess with the m4 cowboy shirt, and though it doesn't fall apart at the seams, the details distort.
My best guess would be RGcincy's thread, but I don't know for sure.
I don't have any of the cowboy shirts from that era, so I can't play with it myself. However, if you use the dForce Weight Node, you can decrease the influence around areas that shouldn't be distorting. See my post above on dForcing the jeans Baldric is wearing. (Also, if the buttons have a separate material zone, you can change the Dynamic Strength in the Surfaces > Editor for that zone.
Collars continue to be problematic. When you decrease the influence, they don't simulate as much, (or at all, if you remove the influence completely,) but that causes it's own set of visual issues. It becomes a matter of trial and error, finding the right amount of influence to reach a result you can live with.
I hate pockets. If they're not welded, they fall off unless you fiddle with the influence, but if you lower the influence so the scrap of mesh doesn't fall off, it also lowers the influence of the mesh underneath, preventing that section of the object from draping naturally. But pockets are a pain with conforming clothing, too, stretching unnaturally with bends. (Notice the pockets on the woman's jeans in this image. That's the result of conforming clothes and an extreme bend.)