Let’s Make Clothing! Tutorial thread. Shoes too!
This discussion has been closed.
Daz 3D is part of 
Connect
DAZ Productions, Inc.
7533 S Center View Ct #4664
West Jordan, UT 84084
Licensing Agreement | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | EULA
© 2024 Daz Productions Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Comments
Yup, know to do that.
I almost hesitate to get these because I want to learn to make them. Nonetheless, some of this might prove useful and tuition. Please explain LE, perhaps the conversion process to Triax and the difference between them?
Incidentally this grafting interloper, as well as the rest of this thread, is good work. One can learn from all involved.
Yup, know to do that.
That's an odd one, then.
I almost hesitate to get these because I want to learn to make them. Nonetheless, some of this might prove useful and tuition. Please explain LE, perhaps the conversion process to Triax and the difference between them?
Incidentally this grafting interloper, as well as the rest of this thread, is good work. One can learn from all involved.
TriAx is thw eight-mapped rigging system used by Genesis, as opposed to the legacy system which is based on falloff angles and spheres (think of it as the difference between a free bit-map image and an image made by blending between a black and a white circle, very approximately). It's called TriAx because each axis gets its own weight-map, unlike many weight-mapped systems where one map covers all (to see why that's bad, or at least limiting, thing look at your forearm - when you bend it the changes are pretty much limited to the elbow area, neglecting the swelling for the tensed muscles which would be handled by the bulge setting, but when you twist it the effect is spread from elbow to wrist). Converting a figure from legacy to TriAx takes a snap-shot of the weights generated by the fall-off settings and places it in a set of weight-maps, allowing you to use features such as GeoGrafting that are available only with the newer system or to refine the maps further.
Ramwolff - check your modifiers in the Customise dialogue. What mode was the Weight Map brush in?
No need to hesitate on acquiring free items ;-)
Free [PC member] or free with purchase stuff [non-member]
Changing bone rotation info by Richard Haseltine :-)
Love that "quotable statement" Richard ;-) It would make a neat render too!
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom.
More to think about for now.
Not sure at this point. Just had some dumb luck and got things working again but I don't know...
Weight mapping this in some areas gives me some great effects for the cape sections (1 - 3) but the upper part of the cape I'm back to struggling with it pulling free from the body when I pose Genesis off from it's default rotation, as in a flying position. It's very odd behavior to me and makes no sense that if something is "glued" or fitted then it should stay that way even if it's pulled a bit. Nope, the entire front of the cape pulls back and falls into Genesis.
What I'm finding that's undesirable also Weight Mapping is, I guess, there must be a full map made or something that's applied to some random empty X Y & Z area or group. When I had my "Dumb luck" in getting things to work again I noticed that if I clicked on the Neck in the cape was filled with red in the X Y & Z and if I removed those then the full red map would switch to the Chest. I tried smoothing and erasing this full on red map but it wouldn't budge. When I started working on getting the Cape 1 - 3 sections mapped I noticed if I clicked on the Chest again the red map was slowly diminishing but it never went fully away and if I tried to erase the rest of the Chest map then I ended up with that it switching to the Cape 01 and messed up my morph so I just closed without saving and lost the work but no way, I don't want to loose that three "Cape" sections. They look great posed in just about any direction so gotta preserve those areas!
Well, long story short, I worked very hard on the movement weight maps in the cape 1 - 3 regions and didn't want to loose that work and I'm not sure if there's a way to mask or protect areas that you don't want this "map shift" to slide into.
I see a "lock" option but there is ZERO indication that I can see that something is locked. I'm guessing the weight mapping area in DS is still being improved upon with each release, at least I hope so.
Just wish that DS had a morph brush to pull areas up or forward or what ever. The D-Forms MIGHT do the trick but they are kinda gangly at this point to me so I don't use them much any more. I guess if all else fails I can make a "Flight Fix" morph in ZBrush somehow and make a note in the ReadMe (which no one really reads, LOL) and hope I don't get feedback about the cape "falling off when I pose Genesis" sorts of complaints.
Is there a good, ground upward thread about rigging? I have some tutorials, but, as I mentioned once, the videos often are inaudible or blurry and sometimes (Carnite's video on d-formers, for example) are depicting an earlier version, thus one has to ask questions anyway.
Not sure at this point. Just had some dumb luck and got things working again but I don't know...
Weight mapping this in some areas gives me some great effects for the cape sections (1 - 3) but the upper part of the cape I'm back to struggling with it pulling free from the body when I pose Genesis off from it's default rotation, as in a flying position. It's very odd behavior to me and makes no sense that if something is "glued" or fitted then it should stay that way even if it's pulled a bit. Nope, the entire front of the cape pulls back and falls into Genesis.
What I'm finding that's undesirable also Weight Mapping is, I guess, there must be a full map made or something that's applied to some random empty X Y & Z area or group. When I had my "Dumb luck" in getting things to work again I noticed that if I clicked on the Neck in the cape was filled with red in the X Y & Z and if I removed those then the full red map would switch to the Chest. I tried smoothing and erasing this full on red map but it wouldn't budge. When I started working on getting the Cape 1 - 3 sections mapped I noticed if I clicked on the Chest again the red map was slowly diminishing but it never went fully away and if I tried to erase the rest of the Chest map then I ended up with that it switching to the Cape 01 and messed up my morph so I just closed without saving and lost the work but no way, I don't want to loose that three "Cape" sections. They look great posed in just about any direction so gotta preserve those areas!
Well, long story short, I worked very hard on the movement weight maps in the cape 1 - 3 regions and didn't want to loose that work and I'm not sure if there's a way to mask or protect areas that you don't want this "map shift" to slide into.
I see a "lock" option but there is ZERO indication that I can see that something is locked. I'm guessing the weight mapping area in DS is still being improved upon with each release, at least I hope so.
Just wish that DS had a morph brush to pull areas up or forward or what ever. The D-Forms MIGHT do the trick but they are kinda gangly at this point to me so I don't use them much any more. I guess if all else fails I can make a "Flight Fix" morph in ZBrush somehow and make a note in the ReadMe (which no one really reads, LOL) and hope I don't get feedback about the cape "falling off when I pose Genesis" sorts of complaints.
DS weight-maps are "normalised" - the total weights, for a given bend axis, from all bones have to add up to 1. So the only way to "erase" weight is by assigning it to another joint.
Let me see if I understand your rig - you have the chest bone, and below that you have cape01, cape02 and cape03? All in a row on the cape itself? the problem, I think, is that the chest pivots at the bottom - whereas the cape bones, as one would expect, pivot at the top. Where cape01 meets chest you therefore get some odd effects - and if that is what you are doing adjusting the weight-maps won't help. Really, I would have cape01 start at the top of the cape, where it would first be able to hang free, and then work down from there. If that isn't what you are doing perhaps you could post a labelled screenshot of your skeleton.
Hi Richard,
Here is a screen grab of the bones. To the left you see the line up. The first large bone facing down is the Chest bone, the three following are Cape 01, Cape 02 & Cape 03. The other top most bones are from a transfer from Genesis (Chest included).
Thanks for helping me understand this.
Rich
I think I see the problem, and it's a big one. You broke the bone hierarchy completely. While you don't need weight maps assigned to them, you do need to keep the hip, abdomen1 & 2, and chest bones from Genesis in the bone hierarchy, because those bones are what the neck are built off of. Secondly, the chest bone is "supposed to point upwards, thus, your cape bone should start from the top of the chest. and drape out from there. Don't delete them. As you can see from my rig, the torso hierarchy is maintained, and the cloak's back fold bones grow out from the end of the chest bone, where it meets the neck.
OK, I pulled the Chest bone into the right direction. There is no way to restore the abs or hip bones as they are gone and in my thinking I would need to have a perfect layout of Genesis' bones to even attempt to rebuild these in what I have now. I would be very sad to have to redo all my weight mapping for the 3 cape bones!
You could add new hip, abdomen, abdomen2 bones, then change the chest's parent to abdomen2 and copy the setings from the Genesis bones (using the Tool Settings pane). Then I'd move cape-01 up to wheer chest is now, and add a new cap-04 at the bottom if desired.
OK... ego aside I gave in. I have Transferred Genesis onto my older cape (that does have all the new morphs in it, just bad rigging and no weight maps) and kept what you mentioned. So you say your drawing your new bones as children off of the "Chest" bone? Can I see a side view of your rig so I can try to get this right this time??
SO your not getting any pulling or disconnection when you pose the cape?
IF not then once I get this done hopefully I'll be on my way finally. Then I need to go through the old rigging hierarchy and hide and lock down the parameters (rotations and translations dials) just to be on the safe side.
This is a long process to learn. WOW!
Just saw your post Richard. I'm not sure how to move bones yet. If it's a drag and drop thing.... I guess I'm too late for that! lol
Thanks so much TG!
OK, this is what I came up with after looking over your cape view above.
Four bones coming off of the Chest. Set at YZX setting.
Good?
Question about the weight mapping. Should I just go through and remove all the weight mapping for the left over Genesis bones so the mapping pops over to the 4 cape bones?
Also I morphed up Genesis and it's still deforming along with Genesis so not sure what to think about all this right now! lol
Well did a test. Removed all the mapping from the old Genesis bones but the cape still deformed along with Genesis so not getting WHAT will make the cape hang nicely.
Oh well. I'll just wait for some more help. Nothing I can do right now....
As I said earlier, you can't remove the weight from bones as such - it just moves down the hierarchy. You need to select the extent of the cape for each bone and fill with 1 for each map, worrying about the smoothing later. Could you post the distortion you are seeing please.
OK. Here is the screen grab. This is my Bruno Muscle Bear 02 morph so it's one of the larger morphs. I have no smoothing used so you can see this raw. I would rather NOT use smoothing since the bottom cape corners keep rounding and I don't care for that.
I took another screen grab showing my newest attempt at rigging. Part of the Genesis rig and just ONE bone to move the cape. I figure with weight mapping I can get the cape to move pretty nicely with just the one bone.
Thanks Richard! :-)
You'll need multiple bones for it to move and bend properly, at least four.
From the ground up, this one: http://www.daz3d.com/rigging-original-figures-in-ds4-pro It goes on sale from time to time. It's excellent.
Although clothing is not 'original figures', one learns how to make the bones, use the weight brush, etc. This information can be very handy for adding bones to clothing, Geografting, etc. Because after all, a bone is a bone.
There is also the "well let's see what happens" ... I do that a lot.
Starting a D-former morph ... I see that page wasn't updated inspite of the additional work done "before". Gee, hopefully things will get back on track with that online manual.
This covers starting the morph, spawning the morph, but not saving the morph!
I found a pathway to do that and hence "little morphs" came to be.
There are other ways [so I'm told] but no instructions.
Not from my findings so far. One big bone seems to give the cape the right amount of movement that I'm looking for. Just hope that Richard can shed some light on how to disconnect the cape from morphing along with Genesis. I don't like it inheriting the FBM's. There just has to be a way to fix that one issue.
Just back from coffee with friends at Peete's and got some more weight mapping done and it's looking really good from a standing point. I'm sure when I put him in the flight position again that will prove to be more work. *sigh*
Try putting the character in a sitting pose. In that pose the cape needs to follow the figure as it get "trapped" between him and the chair. Multiple bones also allows for greater range of movements and more flexibility.
Hmm, well I think I'm going to stick with this but that does give me an idea for making a sitting position morph or two! Allot of merchants make those rather than adding extra bones. I just found with those extra bones that weight mapping became to work intensive. As Richard pointed out the weight map shifts between the bones, so when I thought I had one area the way I wanted the map would shift into another bone that I didn't want it to. It was driving me crazy. I'm nutty enough as it is so simplicity seems best for this particular cape and rely on morphs to assist in what the one bone can do, which is really good. Twists, goes back and side to side all look good. The image above is a mixture of the 3 with Cape Details 03 dialed up to 80% to add all the folds and flutter at the ends of the cape.
Smoothing 'in' a clothing item helps with so many issues. So I cloned 3 shapes, all single pane.
One has only a line extracted inward all around it. [and the white turned black so obviously more tessellation is required].
One had absolutely nothing added to it. hehehe ... okay. We have to add tessellations to our mesh, period.
And the other, I normally add 2nd level smoothing but then I normally have more tessellation to begin with. So this one got a double dose which I think we could call level 4 smoothing in Hexagon.
And the result:
RAMWolff:
I gave you the exact workflow to correct the FBM issue in my previous post. There is no way for your cape not to morph with any dialed shape due to the very nature of Genesis coding itself. When you dial in shapes, or morphs, Genesis transfers that to any fit-to clothing. It adds a temporary Shape/Generated to your clothing adopting Genesis' underlying morphs.
The only way to circumvent this is by way of creating a permanent correction morph (with identical name) that will supersede Genesis from creating the temporary morph.
You just replace the badly deformed cape with your original cape (but size/position altered), and any time you dial your Bruno morph (or any others) it will no longer deform. You will have to repeat this correction exercise for each, and every shape/morph that adds a temporary shape/morph that deforms your cape.
Details are in my last post two pages back...
Just bringing this forward ... there's good information here.
I already created 10 "cape fix" morphs for all 10 of my Bruno FBM's so yes, I'm aware of this process, didn't get as far as you did when I ran into the Duplicate ID's and had to redo most of the main morphs. The corrective morphs are still sitting in a folder on my desktop to start "fixing" again.
I also found that in the Properties tab if you remove the temp shape the cape hangs as it should even with the shape dialed up. Not sure if the cape can be saved out and have it coded in to "ignore" FBM's after this save or not but then there would need to be a way to tell the program to remember the scale as that would play into keeping things fitted better.
Would be a nice option. Kinda like reverse engineering. Dial up the shape, switch to the cape, go into the properties tab, delete the shape and then resave the cape. Might take a while, if something like that worked but it would be a hell of a lot more of a time saver than creating 50 additional shapes to compliment all the Genesis shapes.