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I have attempted to play with DoF several times and I have extreme trouble with it. It seems the more I play with it the worse results I get.
Does there happen to be a tutorial out there for this? Any searches I have done for it have yielded alot but nothing that seems to be what I am looking for. Anyone able to help?
DOF seems to the most delicate thing to pull off. Here you go Bree. These were helpful last year.
http://www.sharecg.com/v/52258/
http://digilander.libero.it/maclean/DStutorial.htm
http://mirtklaar.deviantart.com/art/DAZ-Studio-DOF-Tutorial-289079715
Not doing a plug here, but...My Art Studio thread has links to a lot of the best summaries/questions and answers/tutorials and I am currently going through and putting all the links in one post. Might keep this for handy reference. It only took me a couple seconds to find my old thread on DOF.
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/19756/P285/#336419
This is where I jumped on the forum to ask about DOF and doggedly kept at it until I "got it" lol. In other words, I feel your pain! The main thing is to label a camera (Create-camera) DOF and then use another camera to view THAT one- and just make sure your two planes are like this- one in front of your subject, one behind it- and what is between the two planes will be in focus. If you go to TOP VIEW in the DOF camera and put the little white ball on top of the head, that is a good starting point.
Read this thread :)
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/19195/
I think I like the richness of the first one- look at the band of light on the hay by the cat- really sets if off. That gets lost in the second one as it's so diluted. The rich colors of the cat's back gets a lot lighter, which, with that strip of light, is what set it apart from the hay. So perhaps something between the darker one and the lighter one?
Personal taste- I'd soften the shadow under the horse's lower face/cat's paw. I think that is what is contributing to a spotlight effect instead of being more of an environmental-type lighting appeal. (Again, unless that's the look you're going for.)
Okay, that darned eye. No doubt about it in my mind regarding the second picture- What bugs me about it is that it looks like a slit- more like an evil snake- and it's definitely worse in the second one. I expect a forked tongue to shoot out and a hissing sound to start at any second...lol! If all else fails, get in there and darken the pupil and iris. I'll see if I've got a closeup of Nova's eye. (my Arabian)
Back in awhile. As always, just my three cents. (I'm worth more than two.)
EDIT: Eye photo attached, looked for one where he is looking down (he's eating grass) The eye should keep a large, rounded appearance. That is the gateway to their personality- big eyes, gentle. Snake eyes- calculating how to roll that cat off the bale! (I'm teasing you, hope you know that.)
Unfortunately that eye isn't closeup enough to really see what is going on. I found this eye:
http://slickzine.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Horse_thumb.jpg
and it appears that horse eyes are more like a slit. That being said I know the one I did wasn't quite right and needs more work.
I think it lost the "moisture" in the second one, so to speak. Did you adjust the diffuse and glossy at all? (Glossy being lowered, not raised, and diffuse being lowered.) I've zero experience with baking (lol, my husband and kids can attest to that, but you know what I mean) and am wondering what is permanent about the eye that can't be changed unless you photoshop it.
Which one do you like best on the lighting?
I assume you probably have Horse 2, if you do open the texture and take a look. The eyelashes are part of the texture of the eye and are creating the problem. If the horse wasn't looking down it wouldn't be as much of a problem but it becomes real obvious once you have it look down. Adjusting settings won't help that. I'm going to work on it more, but need to find better reference photos.
One more try
Title: See You Later?
Program: DAZ3D
Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
As has already been mentioned in other threads there is a LOT to learn in DAZ3D. In order to, hopefully, not get completely overwhelmed I am trying to concentrate on specific areas. Currently I am working on posing, lighting and camera work. I am, however, open to any suggestions regarding other areas that need work.
Novica, I just reread your post about the eye. Are you saying the shape of the pupil varies with their emotions?
What about the width? I've seen in various images that it can look like a slit is there an average width compared to the iris?
If the pupil changes height slit vs. round does it do so evenly or is it more rounded on the top or bottom?
I understand you might not know these things, but you are obviously a horse person so I figured you might. ;)
Kismet, I like the expression on your guy you can get an idea of his emotions, but what is the girl thinking? Her expression doesn't really seem to say anything like his does.
Also, his right arm kinda merges into her left arm you might separate those a bit.
This is a good render but stock poses need work.
I wanted her to look a little upset but not angry. I know it still needs work but I find I get to a point where I am no longer making progress and thought some fresh perspectives might help.
I debated about the camera position and their arms. I have trouble sometimes with depth of field.
This is a good render but stock poses need work.
I agree about the girl. I find I pose myself and imagine how a hand, arm, etc. should look in whatever situation I have the models.
I hadn't thought about the fact that she should be looking ahead to where she is going. I did feel her arms where quite stiff. Did not seem natural to me.
I like the idea of a "knowing grin". I was having trouble with her facial expressions and trying to find something I liked that didn't seem over the top.
I know it needs more tweaking but I kind of hit a wall and thought fresh eyes might be helpful.
Thanks for the suggestions.
If you want her to look a little upset maybe bring the eyebrows down a bit.
On the arms I was mainly talking about the angle. If you look they kinda merge together. I would change the angle and maybe separate them a bit. Sorta like avoiding putting a tree behind someone so it doesn't look like it growing out of their head. ;)
Treasure of my Heart
Him: "You are the treasure of my heart beautiful, will you be mine?"
Her: "I am already yours silly, I've always been"
Used:
Easy Enviroments - Greenlands, King of the Steppes, Lord of the Horses, Millenium Horse LE shaped with Alla's Arabian (freebie) and with LnL's Buckskin skin, Basic female, Basic male with Brennan skin, Jaguar Hair for genesis with velvety goodness applied to it.
Have played around a bit with lights and with angles, not quite sure which of the two angles I like hte most, so posting them both to here viewpoints of them *grins*
See You Later?
I worked on the girl's expression and pose. Not sure I am totally happy with her expression but it is an improvement over my first attempt.
Thank you LisaDM and Jaderail for your comments. They were very helpful.
Any thoughts on this second attempt?
I like the second one best, it is more intimate and shows the characters interaction much better. The thing I think needs a bit of work is the overall composition. By that I mean I would have all the females head in the frame and both characters eyes framed using the rule of thirds.
Szark has some excellent information on that in the December 2012 New Users Comp http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewreply/181702/
To help with that Jaderail has created the free Golden Rule Cameras which can be found HERE. This is a great resource that I use in almost every render.
Hi Lisa, sorry it took so long to get back to you. The horses do have slits (more like rectangles) when there is bright light. Similar to a goat, lol! It's like people- when we are in really bright light, the pupils shrink, and if someone were to see us for the first time they'd think the black part of our eye is really tiny. Horses pupils go more squarish/slitty in bright light- but more than I thought! I went out and looked at Nova's eye yesterday and was like, "Well, I'll be darned. You're squarer than I thought dude!" and then later in the evening, it was more rounded (but still a rectangle) It's really pretty uniform as a rectangle with each corner curved and not sharp. The part around the rectangle is so dark, that is what gives the impression of roundness if you don't look closely or see them in the sun at the right angle.
I really like the last attempt- the image is crisp, the lighting around the cat seems really good to me- a good balance. You've done very nice work!
What a fun composition!
Okay, all I can do is tell you what I would try and what I would do to check a few things.
First, save this scene so you can just play around with a totally different approach, lol.
1. I would swing my camera ALL the way around and get behind his head- I don't think he's looking at her. As WE look at the picture, his gaze is too far to our left. Perhaps bring it over to OUR right a bit.
2. If she is mad or leaving with purpose, those arms need more swing. One forward, one back- and I would have her head turned to her left and down, almost touching her shoulder, like, "Yeah, I hear ya. Maybe." The arm on the left( that the head is turned toward) would be back. (I just did this three times in the foyer and my dog is looking at me like, "Well, are you coming or going????") I think it would add more punch, more emotion, if the viewer were in on the disgruntled look- but the guy is not.
To get the head down and turned is easy- in parameters, there is a twist and a turn for the head (just get down to Head in Scene and not just Genesis)
3. Then after you get that chin/ head down, rotate your angle slightly- pull your blue cube over so left is showing slightly.
....or not. I just did this with Genesis and I think you'd like the look. Using the bend and twist, will only take about two minutes to test it- but you may not want that look. And it won't hurt my feelings if you don't want to try it!
Carola- The first one IMO shows too much horse, the emphasis is not on her. The second one does that better. I'd just move that tree so it's not by his head, it pulls the attention away from him. I'd like to see a different angle on her face- it's just personal preference, but her nose and her lip are almost touching.
And again, very nice scenario. I feel like I know these two folks.
See You Later?
Here is the latest version.
Thank you bluemoon for your suggestions on composition and the link to Jaderail's camera prop. That was a HUGE help.
Thank you Jaderail for creating the prop and your great instructions. Very helpful.
Thank you Novica for your suggestion of tweaking the placement of the guy's head. I do try to look at things from all angles to make sure it makes sense. I thought I had it placed correctly but if it didn't appear that way to you then a little adjustment was definitely in order.
As for the girl, I didn't want her angry, just a little peeved. Hopefully I have conveyed that in her face now.
Played around with angles and with DOF a bit... and also took the opportunity to see if I could get a bit more life in it with adding some scar on his body (done in photoshop I might add, used Ron's Fog, a vine and a fire brush from Ron's free sample, and also a scar brush that I found on the itnernet yesterday, a free one). He looks a bit more like a warrior with some scars on him, more fitting with the scene in my opinion *smiles*
Other angles I tried made her smile and eyes look ... strange, not the soft sweet "you silly man" kind of expression, but more a "oh no, not this again" expression.. which I certainly didn't want to have *laughs* so this is probably the best I can do when it comes to issue with her nose and lips. Making the nose smaller could work I guess, but it kinda give her character too so not sure if I want to do that.
Anyhow, let me know how it looks and we will see what happens :)
Facial expression is good, but she is still in a very rigid pose, looks a bit like a tailors dummy.
This one I did some time ago, although slightly different in the intent, as obviously he is going to get that elbow in his stomach if he keeps on, but she is showing her feelings in her body language.
@LisaDM: I think your latest one is definitely better...good job!
@Kismet2012: Much better expression in my opinion. To me it looks a bit inscrutable (I'm not quite sure what she's thinking) but completely believable. And the composition is improved too.
@carola.ottosson: I really like the DOF effect. Personally I think her nose looks fine the way it is...
Carola-
I know what you mean about the expressions changing when you rotate an angle- frustrating!
Although I like the nose/mouth better, now the mans nose is touching her shirt. (Picky, picky) In your previous one, his head stood out better but it just depends on which of the two considerations is most important to YOU.
Kismet-
I agree with Chohole- it's what I was saying earlier about motion, aka the arms with one more noticeably forward like as in striding away, not sauntering (so to speak.) I think the neck and arms could contribute more to the emotion. Also just a slight tweak of the eyebrows perhaps? You've certainly taken on a challenge!
One more try to see if I fixed that little thing with his nose this time ;P I admit I actually hadn't noticed that myself *sheepish grin*
Changed the angle a bit, also moved the trees into the picture so it wasn't just empty sky behind her, and put the DOF on it so it hopefully don't steal too much attention *smiles*
/C
LOVE IT.
See You Later?
How's this?
I like the angle and the intimacy of this scene. You also have a sense that the woman is actually on the horse and not just set there. Kudos for that as it's hard to do that sometimes.
This leads me to a thought.
Gravity. it's not just a b**ch, it's also important. More importantly, the sense of weight that comes with gravity. In Carrara I use target helper objects to help me pose figures. I think in D/S they're called null objects or something. The idea is that you can have the hands or feet track the targets or nulls and then you can push and pull the figure around and let inverse kinematics help with posing.
For instance, if you want two figures holding hands you could use a target or null parented to a hand on figure A and have figure B's hand track it. That way the hands would stay together while you worked on fine tuning the rest of the poses. When they're done, it's just a matter of finishing the hand poses.
I've posted this image before in the lighting challenge as a lighting example, but it's also a good example of two characters interacting. I wanted the ogre to be carrying off an unconscious V4 over it's shoulder. I positioned the figure horizontally over the troll's shoulder while she was still in the T-pose with the hip centered over the shoulder. I inserted four target helpers, one each for the feet and hands. I then set up the tracking and moved the targets around until the hands and feet were in about the correct position. I also parented V4 to the troll (not conformed, but parented) and then I could fine tune the troll's pose and V4 would keep her relative position on the troll's shoulder. A little more fine tuning of V4's position and I was done.
She needs an expression. What is the emotion you wish to convey? You don't need to touch to have interaction, but you need emotional interactions. Sometimes those can be the most difficult- especially if there is no physical contact.