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@Tynkere I haven't done much rappelling so my advice is rather limited. I believe having the legs out like in the reference helps with balance. However, the legs would go down if the rappeller were getting ready to plant feet to the ground. I have no idea about your situation where he's going to pick the boy up and carry him up? It's one of those things where you have to make a judgment call for artistic purposes. Personally, I like the one that is closer to the reference image simply because the original image took advantage of the rules of thirds and Lines when it comes to composition. The straight body with the feet closer to the flames in your image really highlights those flames and draws the eye right to it. I would think you might want that in your image to increase the tension. I think you lose that a little bit when you drop the feet down.
Keep in mind that composition is still one of those things that I really struggle with so my advice or interpretations are amateur at best. In the end, you have to do what you think is best for your image. I will say that I like the rig you cooked up. That looks fantastic. I did look to see if I could find 3D models of some of the hardware but couldn't find much. I have a hard time believing that with all of the 3D models available no one has done climbing and rappelling gear. That is a serious lack of equipment some PA should really snap up. Anyway, it's looking really good.
edit: grammar
I haven’t had much time to post this week, but I’ve been following everyone’s progress. I can’t pick a favorite, I think the judges are going to have a tough time at the end of the month. Here are my thoughts on a few of the entries. I’ll try to comment on the ones I missed soon.
@Wanderer you’ve definitely captured the essence from the source photo, if I scroll down the forum too fast I can’t tell the difference between your render and the original. The pose is right on and it’s very impressive that you made your own props for the chains/flames.
@Tynkere The hybrid of the two poses is very well done, and it’s been fun watching you problem solve the rope and straps. I suspect you put as much work into finding the right prop as you put into the actual posing?
@Daybird Not much I can say about your render that hasn’t already been said, great job! I agree with Wanderer that you are so close to the original you shouldn’t have to start over.
@RA Cool idea, I never would have thought about swapping out the characters in the source pictures the way you did. Very clever.
@Sueya You definitely have a challenging source photo to pose from. Your pose is getting very close, but I do have a suggestion. It might be helpful to have your figure placed on a plane to give you a sense of where she is standing (if only to aid in posing, you could remove the ground plane before rendering if you didn’t want it in your final render). I always orient myself by looking at my figure in relation to the ground, but that might not be as helpful for you, it’s just a thought.
@Diomede Your pose is definitely shaping up, I’m not sure how close you want your image to evoke “Back to the Future” but an orange sleeveless vest (https://www.daz3d.com/teen-swag or https://www.daz3d.com/urban-metro-outfit-for-genesis-2-male-s ) or “life preserver” always makes me think of time travel, also having one of these in the background couldn’t hurt.
https://www.daz3d.com/gull-wing-full
https://www.daz3d.com/mega-charger-for-gull-wing
I know those items aren’t cheap but I like the back to the future concept and it got me thinking about items on my wishlist.
Thanks to all who commented on my first draft. I have been working on tweaking my image, I’ll address the constructive critiques I’ve received when I post my next draft.
@daybird. You nailed it. I don't think it would be possible to match the original image more perfectly.
You inspired me to try my own two-person dance pose, although I think your image is a bit more challenging than mine.
The original image:
And my current attempt:
I've done a lot more work on the woman than on the male, obviously. I'm using a highly customized morphed version of V7 for the female. I am trying to use Jeryon for the male, but I don't think he's the best match, so if anyone has any other suggestions, that'd be awesome. Also, tips for getting the white tights and white shoes for the guy?
I'm having trouble figuring out the proportions of the characters, both in relation to themselves and in relation to each other. Is he behind her? If so, how far? And she's bent forward, but how much? Where does her spine twst, and how much? How can I mimic the fluidity of the human spine with the 3 bones daz provides? And how on earth do I get both her feet on the ground at the same level?
At the end of this post I’ll be attaching my next draft, the following statements are responses to those who took the time to comment on my first submission.
@Tynkere Yeah, I’ve had a copy of CS3 for years but it is starting to look a little long in the tooth, I just can’t bring myself to pay for the subscription model. I’m considering some cheaper one-time purchase solutions such as the Affinity suite of products.
@Kismet2012 Thanks for looking closely enough to pick out problem details. I have tried to address the issues you’ve brought attention to. You were right, the adjustments were not easy, I was tempted to start over from scratch but ultimately decided to adjust the pose I was working on. I think I’ve addressed your suggestions, though I may have created some other discrepancies along the way.
@Diomede You shed some new light on my source image. I was interpreting the flesh tone below the armpit as her abdomen. I was thinking the outfit was a two piece, and that her hand was hidden behind her opponent’s shoulder. Ultimately, I opted for my initial reading of the image as I wasn’t able to get that level of flexibility out of the figure I was posing. Thanks for looking close enough to point that out.
@Wanderer Thanks, but the Devil is in the details. Getting close was the easy part, tightening up the pose has been tough. I’m sure I’m not the only one experiencing that issue though :)
I played around with the poses for a couple of hours before I realized that I couldn’t get the figures to interact correctly at the scale I had them set at. I created my pose using two default Genesis 3 female figures and then saved the poses as presets. After creating and sizing my characters I applied the saved poses. It wasn’t until I went to work attempting to correct the pose that I realized both figures scales had been altered. Using measuremetrics I found that both of my characters were over 7’ tall (despite the fact that I had sized them to 5’5” before starting). In order to get closer to the composition of my source image, I had to set the dominant wrestler to 6’ and the defending wrestler to 5’5”.
Has anyone else noticed this in their posing? It seems like my figures scales are frequently changed when applying pose presets, even when I hold in Ctrl when clicking on the pose and turning off the x,y,z scale options. It could be an illusion, but it seems like it happens quite a bit.
So, after all that rambling, here is my 2nd draft. I did a bit more post work in this version trying to capture some of the hand drawn feel of the inspiring picture.
.
Don't underestimate your skills. For a first preview, that looks very good. I find both figures well chosen.
I be curious if at all, is possible, to pose her legs, how in the pic.You have definitely to unlock all limits in her feets. This pose looks very tricky... and you said, that you have chosen an easier pose.
To your problem with the Ground position of her feet. I would start with a primitive plain as floor. Press strg+D or Ctrl+D to put the plain on the ground level. Then choose V7 and click also strg+D.
Now use the perspective view and move it under the plain, so that you look from below on it. click again on your V7 in the scene tab and use the Y translate lever, to move her up or down until her left foot (from viewers position the right) poked slightly through the plain. From this position I would work through the whole pose.
About the position of both...When I look at the shadows in the original photo, I mean that her is dark and clear under her. The diffused one in the foreground, seems belonge to him. Maybe if you can copy the light, the shadows will give you a better idea of the position. But how many lights and wich angle? He's deffinitely behind her, but I cant say how far.
@Night678winG Pose presets should shouldn't change the scaling of your characters. Which presets are you using that you notice this occurring?
@LaPetiteVerita You have a pretty good start on this. @daybird's suggestion is a really good one. If you don't have a floor in your scene it can be really hard to figure out where that is on the DS grid. Creating a temporary plane can really help with placement. Also, use the built-in function DS has of moving figures to the floor. It's not perfect, but it will get really close to dropping your figure as close to the floor as it can. Note that it will drop the figure's closest body part to the floor, which in the case of your image in its current state would be the toes of her left leg (the bent one). You'll need to flatten that foot out a little more to get the foot parallel to the ground.
I would create a plane, adjust your pose, use Edit>Figure>Drop to Floor repeatedly until you have your female the way you want it.
Note: I'm pretty sure that's the correct path to Drop to Floor but I don't have DS open currently. It should be the last option all the way at the bottom of the menu.
edit: I have no idea what I was thinking when I wrote should when I meant shouldn't. Luckily, Night figured out the problem despite my goof!
@Knittingmommy Thanks for following up on my query. I was testing different pose presets to answer your question and I think I figured out my problem. I've been using measuremetrics as a tool to create my character heights, I assumed it was giving the character's exact height despite the position they were in. After looking at it closer I believe it's only giving the measurement of the figure from the ground to the top of the head, so a kneeling position would possibly show a 6' character to be 3' tall. I probably could have saved myself some confusion had I read through the product documentation but I have a bad habit of not reading instructions. I've been using this tool incorrectly for a long time, it makes me wonder what other misconceptions about Daz Studio I may be operating under. This is definitely incentive for me to continue in the monthly challenges.
Lol. I still haven't figured out how to use Measure Metrics wrong or otherwise. No problem. Glad you worked out what the problem was.
@ LaPetite
Pretty dog-gone close! Imagine you’ll tweak a few minor nit-picks, so will wait before saying anything specific. Figure you already know. : )
@ Nightwing
Hope you don’t mind me calling you that. Easier than typing 678. ; )
Anyway, pretty cool ‘toon’ pic. Can’t see anything except to nit-pick. Won’t do that unless you ask. : )
@ Wanderer
Heh. Yeah, opinions... "Everyone has one and everyone elses’ stinks" as they say. Surprised you caught the ‘grok’ & Heinlein. : )
Anyway, point taken. News is depressing enough without me bringing it in here. It just... well things like Grenfell and their CEO getting a big fat bonus really... ‘gets my blood pressure up’ might be a polite way of putting it.
@ Shinji
Free planets! I love it! Seriously. They had a contest in Bryce I think & theme was ‘space’ and had some pretty cool renders. Bookmarked as place to score Sci-Fi space related stuff if happen to need.
@ Daybird
That doesn’t look like the trusty old “Shift + Y” for symmetry.
As others have said, think you’ve just blown this one out if the water.
@ KnittingMommy
First off, that's a very good tutorial. I'd never been able to do much with ActivePose tool. In fact, when I first got DS, I thought the sphere and rings in LH viewport controlled the lights like in Poser! D'oh!
I'm probably OCD about composition, but think you're being too modest about your own work. : )
Last night, was looking at it and still think the whole concept is flat and just lacking something. Dulls-ville...
So... I tried rendering it in 3DL. I like some of the results, but can’t figure out why it doesn’t seem to be mapping the rope's shadow on rescue guy's arm or whereever the light would be blocked. Using one AoA Distant Light.
@ Everyone
Is it me, or is this month harder because we have to use a reference photo? Anyway, hope I haven’t left anyone out. NU always a busy place!
Thanks for reading
--Bruce
Helping Hand 3DL test render
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Edit: weeding out old imgur files. PM missing links.
@Knittingmommy - YES! I didn't realize it until you said it, but that about the feet in the fire bit is genius and very much correct. Great composition advice I think.
@Tynkere Thanks. I admit I wasn't sure what those rings did either when I first started. They do come in handy when posing though I admit I tend to use the transform widget thingie more than anything else when posing. Between that and the sliders for the Bend, Twist, and Side to Side, I manage to get things done. I think it's wise to learn how to use all of the tools though. You never know when you'll get into a posing situation and that one tool you don't use much will be the perfect choice to nudge your pose where you want it to go.
Lol, people keep telling me my stuff is good. I might actually start listening to them someday soon. Thank you. :)
Ah, I'm still not great with 3DL. I have no answers for you there. @Linwelly, though, is tremendously knowledgeable and helpful with 3DL stuff so maybe she'll pop in and help you out.
@Wanderer Well, I learned all of that here through working with the challenges and talking to others on the forum. So, continue what you're doing and you'll soon learn all of those artistic ins and outs.
So much to catch up on!!! ACK! Leave for just a few days and now this... okay, breathe slowly...
@LaPetiteVerita - daybird, as Knittingmommy already said, gave really good advice... I'm not sure I agree on the diffuse foreground shadow belonging to him, as it might be her arm and upper body, while the light on his body might actually be blowing his shadow off into the background. In fact, that darker blurry lump behind her on the ground might be him. (All of you guys with your multi-person poses are setting a higher standard for the month. Now I'm definitely going to have to do another.) No suggestions from me on the pants/shoes except you could try on any pants that have similar shape with white cloth or even just standard uber shader if in iray, just to see if that comes close. You've got a great start on the pose.
For him, create an extra cam, position it at the end of that arm he's looking toward (and slightly above), roll that arm a bit more and bring the hand slightly down. Then looking straight along the arm, bring his face/eyes more in line with the camera. You could even do the eyes looking at the camera trick in the tutorials. EDITED TO ADD: Also, the hips need to be turned more toward her. If you extend a line up into the abdomen and compare the model's stomach to the reference, it's out away from her a little too much.
For her, the only thing I would suggest is that your female model seems to have longer legs. The length of the two legs for the reference figure measured with ruler on my monitor from crotch to knee is very close, which means they are at similar angles (relative to the camera, not the floor), but when I measure the knee to crotch length of your model's pose, it's about 1/4" longer than the reference's limb (not the model's other leg) on my screen (will vary depending upon your screen resolution and whether image is full screen). Where proportions really matter in posing, so far as I can tell, is where figures interact with other objects, figures, surfaces, or lights (because, in a sense, the light itself acts like a figure). So when you try to position the bent leg to match her pose, it has to be similarly positioned relative to not only her body, but also the floor where it intersects. It will be hard to match the pose of that leg because of the length of the limb from joint to joint (crotch to knee) relative to the length of the lower limb (knee to heel). Then, look at the angle of the leg in the reference and in your version. If you measure the original's upper leg and lower leg, her upper leg is slightly shorter than her lower leg, but your model's upper leg is slightly longer than her lower leg. Unless you alter the figure, you could never make an exact match in angle for all the joints of that bent leg.
BUT, having said all that, you're off to a good start. How much of a perfectionist are you or should you be willing to be? (Edit: if only I could illustrate my point as I'm afraid I'm not being very clear.)
@Tynkere Starship Troopers is on my top Must Read books list, along with Fahrenheit 451, along with I Am Legend. It's so much more than just about a bug hunt. The movie doesn't do it justice (same as I Am Legend--although to be fair, Vincent Price was closest version). As for that Stranger in a Strange Land, though I haven't read it yet, it's on my To Read books list for the next year or two or five. I keep trying, but so many things to do. But I definitely grok. As for your pic, I like your choices, subject, and composition overall. I think the things you chose to do and the little details are what make your pose impressive. I like it. I only wish I had some helpful suggestions.
@Night678winG - You're totally correct. As for your image, frankly I'm jealous of your postwork skill, but I admire the skill you've shown in everything you've done here.
Yeah, I'm with Tynkere, anything else I'd say would only be nitpicking. Nicely done.
I love your post work style! I totally agree with @Wanderer. It looks fantastic! :) Your pose looks pretty spot one, too.
@Wanderer Can you go in and edit the size of the last image you posted of Night's wrestlers? Make sure the width is set to 800 px. The forums likes the images set at 800 px or smaller for the width. Thanks! :)
Sorry Km, I didn't know. I've not posted that many, so it hadn't come up previously. Does the original size of the image uploaded also need to be 800 or less width, or just the linked one in the post? Cause I've not been doing it. If you need me to, I can go back through all mine and make them 800. I've actually been hanging out here forever, but not always been active and really only posted art in the last few years--and not often as you see my gallery is not huge. I don't remember seeing a rule on the size, back when, so I'm wondering if it's something that's developed more in the past few years... or was there always a limit and I just didn't know?
Edit: Done on Night's.
No, you don't need to make any adjustments to the original. Just edit your post by clicking on the gear at the top right corner and click Edit. Your post with appear down in the Leave a Comment text box where you type forum posts. Right click on your image and choose Edit Image Properties. In the little box where it says width, just input 800 and the length should automatically adjust as long as the little padlock icon looks locked. Then save and you should be good.
The reason that there is a limit is that people use all sorts of different cevices to surf the forums and some have a limit of 768 pixels wide for the image. so having the wider format ones shwoing at full width makes then corrupt on those sort of devices. Limiting the display width in the screen KM showed you means that your original size images is still available for those who want to see it in full, they just need to click on it.
Thank you both. I only began posting images really in Dec 2016, and then just in my gallery, so this is the first time I've encountered it. I apologize for the problem it's caused. Won't happen again.
Questions on the rules for images.
First, I want to pick a fighting picture from the links offered, but I know violence is forbidden, yet some body contact is obviously okay. This image displays one man kicking another, while the second man punches back in classic kickboxing fashion. Is this permissable for use for a pose? Is this just a matter of common sense, like no blood and guts, or is there a rule somewhere that is more defined? All I see under the terms of service is a mention about gratuitous violence.
Second, I was considering making an image that incorporates a well-known figure from 1960's television. Is this permissable for posting? I figured my terminator image was okay because it's a little more generic, but this is a specific character from television and would be obviously only that character and not some inspired character, unless I could figure out a way to make it into cosplay or something. Anyway, what is the rule on that? When I read over the DAZ terms of service, all I see is this:
Would fan art be considered such a violation? If this is already answered, I apologize.
A certain level of violence is allowed, Images that may appear gratuitously violent will be reviewed.
Fan Art is allowed, for instance we have threads for Star trek, Star wars, Dr WHo and Super heroes. There is also a thread where people are deliberately looking for or making Celebrity look alikes.
Cool! Thank you, Chohole. I appreciate the answers.
K... So, I still didn't end up with a very sophisticated pose choice, but I was struck by sudden inspiration. I really want to do what I want to do, so that's that. I've decided to do a combination of two poses for reasons that should become apparent:
First image, for our hero's pose:
URL: http://maxpixel.freegreatpicture.com/Fight-Mma-Maza-Kickboxing-Maza-Fight-Football-1444469
Link referral required.
Second image, for his opponent:
URL: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bears_fighting.jpg
Attribution required: (attribution links on above source site are dead) http://www.flickr.com/people/37563893@N00 Noel Feans
Image Title (for bears): "The Clash"
I'm not anywhere near finished (upper body is not properly turned on hero for starters), but I've made some initial progress. So here's that:
Note: Ultraman requires attribution: model by Candy http://www.sharecg.com/v/64786/view/11/Poser/Ultraman-TypeC-complete
Further note: I altered some of the body proportions with scale settings for the Ultraman figure.
@Night678winG - I hadn't noticed but now that you mention, it does seem odd. Love your intricate pose. Also your post; great hand drawn style. Which programs do you use?
Here is my third update. Went back to the intimate (medium shot), per advice. Replace some symbols. Regarding the pose, I did learn two lessons. One, torso slum seems to work backwards, I expected the figure to slum forward. Two, it is very difficult to position the figure's head sticking out (foward, as in my reference image.) Even the upper and lower neck controls don't allow this pose. At least, I have not succeeded in creating it.
I think, given the constraints of your chosen figure, you've actually done quite well matching the pose. Given the new body angle, I see you are trying to work within those constraints by scaling the arms/hands. I am happy that you went back to this type of framing. I am unsure about how I feel with the new scaling. I'm trying to decide how it stands on its own without my having seen the original--which I cannot unsee of course. Overall, I think you've done something really cool again. Maybe others could chime in about the scaling.
The figure I'm using is Eva 7 I have the standard Genesis 3 Female Morphs
I also have FSL Divas for Victoria 7.
Why I see Donald Trump bevor my eyes, when I look at that?
Didn't see the resemblence until you pointed it out. Amazing work whether by accident or design.
Meanwhile, "Helping Hand" is suffering from a serious case of no RSL shaders for some items. Was working on a reflective pattern for his vest in PS when I got distracted by something.
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Edit: weeding out old imgur files. PM missing links.
Okay, so this is my first stab at something like this, but I'm happy with it so far (all things considered). I'd be happy to get feedback on it. Helpful suggestions are always welcome, even when I opt to go a different way. I learn new ways of seeing things I just don't have fresh eyes for any longer. I see things I'm not happy about (and probably will change), but I'd like to know what others think before I tinker with it further. Anyway...
Title: "The Main Event"
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