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Hard Subdivision for ZBrush Transfer

sean_oconnor_d5a51e9096sean_oconnor_d5a51e9096 Posts: 0
edited December 1969 in New Users

I like to sculpt with a fair amount of polygons in ZBrush, more than the base resolution of the Genesis figure. I cannot seem to figure out how to make a hard subdivision before sending it to ZBrush. I am not talking about the dynamic subd levels, I need actual baked in geometry to sculpt with, but some that I can send back to DAZ Studio. Adding more divisions is easy in ZBrush, but that obviously breaks the vertex order.

Any help is appreciated, thank you.

Comments

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,842
    edited December 1969

    You could export the SubD mesh, then use the Transfer Utility to rig the high-resolution OBJ. But of course that would be a new figure, not Genesis.

  • SloshSlosh Posts: 2,391
    edited December 1969

    Subdividing in ZBrush won't harm the Genesis mesh as long as you lower it back down to 1 before sending it back to DAZ Studio. I am speaking of using GoZ in this case, not sure if you wanted to go that route or not. To make sure before I posted, I gave it a try. I sent Genesis to ZBrush via GoZ, subdivided in ZBrush to Level 4 (1.2 million polys) and did some really crude modeling onto the mesh. Then, I lowered subd to level 1 and GoZ back to DAZ. I was given the option to create a morph for Genesis, which I did. Then applied the morph and raised Genesis' mesh resolution to 2, which was the max available for me. No problems at all.

    You won't get micro details transferred over, but in the case of my test, I got some good face wrinkles. One thing to try before porting back to DS is to go to the subtool menu while at level 1 and select the Project submenu, reproject higher subdivision. ZBrush will then go back to level 4, you lower it to level 1 again, then port to DS. Attached is a pic of my efforts, which could be better if this weren't just a test.

    Wrinkles_from_ZBrush.jpg
    742 x 926 - 124K
  • sean_oconnor_d5a51e9096sean_oconnor_d5a51e9096 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Thanks for the replies:

    @Slosh: That is almost exactly what I have been doing so far, but as you said some smaller details will not transfer over. It is those details that I am trying to get--certainly not at the skin pore level, but more so the larger sharp creases in areas like the armpits, gluts, and knees. I suppose it is not the end of the world, for I can always reimport the lowest level from DAZ and let ZBrush reproject the higher divisions; I just wanted to see some of those details in DAZ.

    @Richard Haseltine: Indeed, I was trying to keep compatibility with the Genesis morphs. That does bring up an interesting question though. Can I use the DAZ morphing engine with a completely custom figure? That is, if I made my own human model and a set of morphs, could I use DAZ to adjust those morphs like I can with Genesis?

  • SloshSlosh Posts: 2,391
    edited December 1969

    sean_oconnor said:
    Thanks for the replies:

    @Slosh: That is almost exactly what I have been doing so far, but as you said some smaller details will not transfer over. It is those details that I am trying to get--certainly not at the skin pore level, but more so the larger sharp creases in areas like the armpits, gluts, and knees. I suppose it is not the end of the world, for I can always reimport the lowest level from DAZ and let ZBrush reproject the higher divisions; I just wanted to see some of those details in DAZ.

    @Richard Haseltine: Indeed, I was trying to keep compatibility with the Genesis morphs. That does bring up an interesting question though. Can I use the DAZ morphing engine with a completely custom figure? That is, if I made my own human model and a set of morphs, could I use DAZ to adjust those morphs like I can with Genesis?

    Have you considered creating a morph at the lowest subd level, then using a normal map or displacement map for the details? I am playing around with that right now, since your post inspired me to try it (been wanting to for a long time, just haven't had the motivation until now). I am having very good results with normal maps, but not so much with displacement. My displacement map is not lining up with my original model.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,842
    edited December 1969

    Slosh said:
    Subdividing in ZBrush won't harm the Genesis mesh as long as you lower it back down to 1 before sending it back to DAZ Studio. I am speaking of using GoZ in this case, not sure if you wanted to go that route or not. To make sure before I posted, I gave it a try. I sent Genesis to ZBrush via GoZ, subdivided in ZBrush to Level 4 (1.2 million polys) and did some really crude modeling onto the mesh. Then, I lowered subd to level 1 and GoZ back to DAZ. I was given the option to create a morph for Genesis, which I did. Then applied the morph and raised Genesis' mesh resolution to 2, which was the max available for me. No problems at all.

    You won't get micro details transferred over, but in the case of my test, I got some good face wrinkles. One thing to try before porting back to DS is to go to the subtool menu while at level 1 and select the Project submenu, reproject higher subdivision. ZBrush will then go back to level 4, you lower it to level 1 again, then port to DS. Attached is a pic of my efforts, which could be better if this weren't just a test.

    Unfortunately if you leave SMTH on, in ZBrush when you divide the mesh some parts, especially the teeth and fingers, will be noticeably deformed when you go back to the base level, and in DS.

  • SloshSlosh Posts: 2,391
    edited December 1969

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Unfortunately if you leave SMTH on, in ZBrush when you divide the mesh some parts, especially the teeth and fingers, will be noticeably deformed when you go back to the base level, and in DS.

    Very good point, Richard. The good thing is, if you turn SMTH off for only the first subdivide, then turn it back on, the smoothing is negligible from the 2nd divide and on. DS will barely notice it since it only subdivides once by default, twice if you raise it.

  • sean_oconnor_d5a51e9096sean_oconnor_d5a51e9096 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Slosh said:
    Have you considered creating a morph at the lowest subd level, then using a normal map or displacement map for the details?

    That is the ultimate end goal, eventually. I was just hoping to easily transfer back and forth between ZBrush and DAZ to apply some morphs/posing as I sculpted.

    I am leaning toward making my own figure from scratch simply because it is fun and customized. I know the Genesis morphs will not work, but I can still use the engine and import my own with Morph Loader Pro right? Is there anyway to easily rig a custom mesh in DAZ?

  • SloshSlosh Posts: 2,391
    edited December 1969

    I haven't tried rigging custom figures yet, so I'm afraid I won't be any help on that front. I will keep following this thread, though, because when someone answers for you, I would like to find out myself.

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I suggest starting Here and Following from top to bottom, I admit this is a VERY basic an not FINISHED tutorial but does outline the steps needed for rigging in DS4+.

    http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/userguide/creating_content/rigging/start

  • Eternal ForceEternal Force Posts: 301

    This is very interesting, Richard! Could you tell us more about this process? Let's say I got the high-resolution OBJ (around 1 million vertices). I'd love to be able to bring all this data back to DS to use on my Genesis 8 figure. I have already created a morph and normal maps for my Genesis 8 but it is not the same. Unfortunately, some information is lost. How can I use the Transfer utility to rig Genesis 8 Male figure (16 834 vertices) with my modified  obj (about a million vertices)? Is it really possible? I tried but  I got a very deformed OBJ. What settings should I use?

    Richard Haseltine said:

    You could export the SubD mesh, then use the Transfer Utility to rig the high-resolution OBJ. But of course that would be a new figure, not Genesis.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,842

    Import the OBJ using the same preset as you used in the export dialogue, then use Edit>Figure>Transfer Utility to rig it (set the Source as the original figure, the Target as the imported OBJ, and I can't recall which boxes you need to check to get morphs etc. across). However, the Genesis figures are designed to bend first, then haev SubD applied, so you will get nasty scrunching at the joints and may well have other issues.

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