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five ways to fix poke through without using conforming figures

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  • SileneUKSileneUK Posts: 1,975
    edited December 1969

    diomede64

    Thank you so much for the brilliant tut. It's so thorough and easy to follow. Being a noob who is making basic tunic type clothing, it was a revelation. Beats my primitive rigging the clothing with bones for sure. So will try your method when I can get back to modelling.

    Cheers from a grateful noob!

    :) :) :) SileneUK

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 2,247
    edited December 1969

    jon - I'm normally fanatical about quads - but tri's serve a purpose - as you say, it depends where they are placed. I have read somewhere that rendering apps convert everything to tri's, in any case, but can't swear to that :)

    Take a look at these videos - they give the basic concepts of polygonal modelling - essential viewing for any modeler

    http://vimeo.com/user904568

    Cheers

  • JonstarkJonstark Posts: 2,738
    edited December 1969

    Roygee said:
    jon - I'm normally fanatical about quads - but tri's serve a purpose - as you say, it depends where they are placed. I have read somewhere that rendering apps convert everything to tri's, in any case, but can't swear to that :)

    Take a look at these videos - they give the basic concepts of polygonal modelling - essential viewing for any modeler

    http://vimeo.com/user904568

    Cheers

    Thanks Roygee, since I'm at work at the moment I can't view the vid yet, but will when I get home.

    In that link that Diomede gave earlier, the discussion forum mentioned that renderers do actually turn all quads into to triangles before rendering, I don't know if that's true of all render engines of course, but they specifically mentioned that for a video game engine it's best to have your character already broken into triangles, which makes the speed of the render quicker as it doesn't have to calculate that. I thought it was fascinating to know that the render engines break your figure into triangles before they render.

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,158
    edited December 1969

    Thanks for the encouraging words, everyone. The nice thing about starting this thread was that I learned a lot myself.

  • tbwoqtbwoq Posts: 238
    edited December 1969

    diomede64, thanks for posting the tutorial on the model conversion method.

    The C8.5 beta had a few show stopping(= very bad) and repeatable bugs for me. Just when I was getting ready to report them, I got an e-mail stating that the bug tracker was changing. Then C8.5 was released and,...well, I think I'll wait. As for the topic title, maybe something mentioning editing a mesh to fix poke through in Carrara with tutorials etc.

    ----

    I use quads in modeling when possible. Easier to select, extrude and follow edge flows. No right or wrong way, mostly preference. I think Carrara interpets everything as all tris anyway. If I recall, there was something about physics had better results in some programs with triangulated models. They both get the job done though.

    When I first read this topic, I started modeling a vertex dress for V4.2 to test poke through. When I was done, I got sidetracked trying Bullet softbody simulations for the dress. Long story short. It doesn't work, and I've done ALOT of testing in Carrara physics.

    Poser imports and complex objects are just to tricky to get Bullet to simulate proper clothes draping. There is still room for improvement, but Bullet physics are meant for realtime video game simulation and has a limit on polygon counts, so Carrara needs a better alternative, especially for figure content.

  • Philemo_CarraraPhilemo_Carrara Posts: 1,175
    edited December 1969

    I've got a fifth way which is the one I use most of the time.

    I use 3D paint to create an alpha map for the skin (or the other layer of garment) poking through.
    Very often, the cloth bend nicely, by just not the same way the underlining figure does. So, hiding the offending (poking through) bit of skin gives a nice result. The added value is that very quickly and easily done.

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,158
    edited September 2013

    Philemo said:
    I've got a fifth way which is the one I use most of the time.

    I use 3D paint to create an alpha map for the skin (or the other layer of garment) poking through.
    Very often, the cloth bend nicely, by just not the same way the underlining figure does. So, hiding the offending (poking through) bit of skin gives a nice result. The added value is that very quickly and easily done.

    Great point Philemo.

    So, to use the 3D paint brush and alpha map method, you would typically paint on the mesh of the figure that is being clothed, rather than adjust the prop's mesh that you attached to the figure's skeleton. In my example, you would want to paint the left shoulder of Gobbles black in the alpha channel (only).

    Choose the "model" level of the figure.
    Click on the 3D paint brush in the upper left of the assembly room menu.
    In the 3D paint menu (upper right), make sure that you have opened the "alpha" menu.
    Click the magic wand looking thing to create a new alpha map, and make a name and saving location.
    Make sure the default color for the alpha map is white (white is visible, black is not).
    Under the tools menu (upper right), make sure your paint brush color is black. You can pick tools to make sure you are painting a solid color instead of scratches.
    Paint the area of poke through black in the alpha channel.
    When you render, the body part that is black will not be visible, thus no poke through.

    Gobbles_3d_paint_alpha_3.JPG
    856 x 645 - 69K
    Gobbles_3d_paint_alpha_2.JPG
    757 x 602 - 66K
    Gobbles_3d_paint_alpha_1.JPG
    963 x 640 - 72K
    Post edited by Diomede on
  • Philemo_CarraraPhilemo_Carrara Posts: 1,175
    edited December 1969

    diomede64 said:
    [
    Great point Philemo.

    So, to use the 3D paint brush and alpha map method, you would typically paint on the mesh of the figure that is being clothed, rather than adjust the prop's mesh that you attached to the figure's skeleton. In my example, you would want to paint the left shoulder of Gobbles black in the alpha channel (only).

    Choose the "model" level of the figure.
    Click on the 3D paint brush in the upper left of the assembly room menu.
    In the 3D paint menu (upper right), make sure that you have opened the "alpha" menu.
    Click the magic wand looking thing to create a new alpha map, and make a name and saving location.
    Make sure the default color for the alpha map is white (white is visible, black is not).
    Under the tools menu (upper right), make sure your paint brush color is black. You can pick tools to make sure you are painting a solid color instead of scratches.
    Paint the area of poke through black in the alpha channel.
    When you render, the body part that is black will not be visible, thus no poke through.

    Yes, that's exactly the way I do it :-)

    Nice tuto

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,158
    edited December 1969

    @ tbwoq

    I think Carrara interpets everything as all tris anyway. If I recall, there was something about physics had better results in some programs with triangulated models. They both get the job done though.

    When I first read this topic, I started modeling a vertex dress for V4.2 to test poke through. When I was done, I got sidetracked trying Bullet softbody simulations for the dress. Long story short. It doesn’t work, and I’ve done ALOT of testing in Carrara physics.

    Poser imports and complex objects are just to tricky to get Bullet to simulate proper clothes draping. There is still room for improvement, but Bullet physics are meant for realtime video game simulation and has a limit on polygon counts, so Carrara needs a better alternative, especially for figure content.

    Like everyone else, my top priority for Carrara 9 is an improved cloth draping function. In the example I used for this tutorial, it would be so easy to just drape the tunic over Gobbles, if the softbody physics was better. I believe when 8.5 was just released, PhilW was saying that he was getting more stable softbody clothing results in C8.5 by converting to tris, but I'm not sure if that is the current view.

    People could use Poser as a cloth plug in for Carrara. That is the only reason I open Poser these days. For people who do animations, there is a free dynamic clothing export script (Poser to Carrara) available at the cafe
    http://carraracafe.com/

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,158
    edited December 1969

    Today, you can get this thread for 14.97! See
    http://www.daz3d.com/pc-anniversary-sale-week-1/how-to-remove-poke-through

    Actually, just teasing. I'm sure that item hass great info for Poser/Studio/ZBrush users. So if you are interested in various ways to fix poke through, you might be interested in V3Digitimes sale item in the store (the sale may be affected by Platinum club membership).

  • V3DigitimesV3Digitimes Posts: 3,144
    edited December 1969

    diomede64 said:
    Today, you can get this thread for 14.97! See
    http://www.daz3d.com/pc-anniversary-sale-week-1/how-to-remove-poke-through

    Actually, just teasing. I'm sure that item hass great info for Poser/Studio/ZBrush users. So if you are interested in various ways to fix poke through, you might be interested in V3Digitimes sale item in the store (the sale may be affected by Platinum club membership).

    Thank you very much for mentioning it Diodeme. ;)
    You also mention Zbrush as an external modeller, it is true that there is a Zbrush part in the tutorials.
    But considering the price of Zbrush, there is also parts concerning how to make your morphs in blender (100% free 3d software - similar to hexagon), and how to make morphs with poser and daz internal tools (deformers/magnets). I just wanted to make a tuto gathering and demonstrating the maximum of tools for poser and daz users : morphing/hiding/deforming, so that anybody can chose the one they prefer.
    The topic about these tutorials is here, feel free to ask any questions :http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/29868/

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,158
    edited December 1969

    Kadix said:
    diomede64 said:
    Today, you can get this thread for 14.97! See
    http://www.daz3d.com/pc-anniversary-sale-week-1/how-to-remove-poke-through

    Actually, just teasing. I'm sure that item hass great info for Poser/Studio/ZBrush users. So if you are interested in various ways to fix poke through, you might be interested in V3Digitimes sale item in the store (the sale may be affected by Platinum club membership).

    Thank you very much for mentioning it Diodeme. ;)
    You also mention Zbrush as an external modeller, it is true that there is a Zbrush part in the tutorials.
    But considering the price of Zbrush, there is also parts concerning how to make your morphs in blender (100% free 3d software - similar to hexagon), and how to make morphs with poser and daz internal tools (deformers/magnets). I just wanted to make a tuto gathering and demonstrating the maximum of tools for poser and daz users : morphing/hiding/deforming, so that anybody can chose the one they prefer.
    The topic about these tutorials is here, feel free to ask any questions :http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/29868/

    Thank you for doing the tutorial. I figure anyone who has followed this thread is interested in the topic, and its obvious that your product covers a lot more ground, in a lot more settings, in a more thorough manner.

  • V3DigitimesV3Digitimes Posts: 3,144
    edited December 1969

    diomede64 said:
    Kadix said:
    diomede64 said:
    Today, you can get this thread for 14.97! See
    http://www.daz3d.com/pc-anniversary-sale-week-1/how-to-remove-poke-through

    Actually, just teasing. I'm sure that item hass great info for Poser/Studio/ZBrush users. So if you are interested in various ways to fix poke through, you might be interested in V3Digitimes sale item in the store (the sale may be affected by Platinum club membership).

    Thank you very much for mentioning it Diodeme. ;)
    You also mention Zbrush as an external modeller, it is true that there is a Zbrush part in the tutorials.
    But considering the price of Zbrush, there is also parts concerning how to make your morphs in blender (100% free 3d software - similar to hexagon), and how to make morphs with poser and daz internal tools (deformers/magnets). I just wanted to make a tuto gathering and demonstrating the maximum of tools for poser and daz users : morphing/hiding/deforming, so that anybody can chose the one they prefer.
    The topic about these tutorials is here, feel free to ask any questions :http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/29868/

    Thank you for doing the tutorial. I figure anyone who has followed this thread is interested in the topic, and its obvious that your product covers a lot more ground, in a lot more settings, in a more thorough manner.

    You are really welcome!!! When I began Daz and poser, I had so many poke through problems too (and did not understood why on that time)! And I felt like having something gathering tools tips and tricks to remove them. Just what you began to do in this thread actually ;)
    But I thought also it was easier to see what to do on videos rather than on forums or pdfs since in video you necessarily have all the steps "live". Now I just hope it will help people.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,522
    edited December 1969

    Very cool!
    I feel that, while the title of the topic is perfectly descriptive for the subject of discussion, you're initial technique of making clothing and applying it to an existing skeleton goes far beyond all of that. Very nice thread you've got here!

    I've added this thread to the ► Forum Help Links post within the ►►► Carrara Information Manual ◄◄◄

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,522
    edited December 1969

    Kadix said:

    Thank you very much for mentioning it Diomede64 ;)
    You also mention Zbrush as an external modeller, it is true that there is a Zbrush part in the tutorials.
    But considering the price of Zbrush, there is also parts concerning how to make your morphs in blender (100% free 3d software - similar to hexagon), and how to make morphs with poser and daz internal tools (deformers/magnets). I just wanted to make a tuto gathering and demonstrating the maximum of tools for poser and daz users : morphing/hiding/deforming, so that anybody can chose the one they prefer.
    The topic about these tutorials is here, feel free to ask any questions

    This is really cool! I love collecting products like this one!
    I add to Kadix' thanks on this one - and Kadix... thanks for making this!
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