Unnecessary Key frame cluttering slows Carrara 8.0 pro down causing it to hang and crash
Artistic Touch Multimedia Art and Design
Posts: 86
Through recent development of a small project I was working on, it required me to have to make adjustments on various different joints on every single frame of my animated short piece, because I was working over real live video footage to cover up a real prop with a 3D character in front of the prop. (I had to make sure every square inch was covering up the original prop).
Every time I move one joint or even the entire body of the character, the next frame or several frames down when I need to move that particular joint or whole body over or rotate it, in between those frames, that particular joint or movement is highly exaggerated in the opposite direction. The same thing happens when working with morphed animations. The morphs become greatly exaggerated in between key frames of just a few or more.
So I thought, it might be easier to just copy and paste the previous key frames into the next frames over in order to keep the joints and body in place that didn't need any movement at that particular frame(s). I thought that would save some time. The more key frames added, the more it slowed the project down I was working on and it would slow down the reaction time to move the character's joints and body around and would also limit the amount of times I can move each joint and body before the program would crash and hang up. This would happen far less if I just took the extra time to use the "toggle left" or "right tangent" animation tools.
Question is, why hasn't Daz software techies corrected this animation problem? I remember at one point when Eovia had a similar issue before they turned the keys over to daz, but they had it finally corrected. Why is this issue happening again and why hasn't daz fixed this issue? Is anyone still having this key frame in between key frame exaggerated movement/morphs problem in Carrara 8.5 pro?
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Comments
I always have this problem of exaggeration with my characters and others.
There are sometimes useless keyframes in the timeline.
I have this problem with the eyes of the characters, when they close and open (approximately 5 images), the transition between these moments should not be “Bezier” but “Linear”, if not the eyes deform all the face.
Try this.
So are you using carrara pro 8 or carrara 8.5 now? I'm wondering if this issue has been fixed yet in newer versions? If not, hopefully it will be fixed in version 9.
I use C8 pro, I don't need Genesis...
Is that what 8.5 is called? Genesis? Definition= The origin or mode of the formation of something.
I wish they would have spent more time on forming a more stable software, than continuing to add on stuff that just clutters the rest of the "useful tools" already in the program. I almost upgraded to 8.5, but decided it wasn't necessary.
I believe that it is a transition.
There are too many followers of this software to give up its progression.
It is necessary that Carrara remains at the top in creation 3D but it is made outdistance because of its integration of Genesis.
If I have a chance that the administrators of DAZ hear me (and more others): stop making evolve Genesis and work on Carrara!
But one already spoke about this in others topics on this forum...
I've been vocalizing the same. Hoping they'll fix the problematic issues first, then integrating add ons that would help improve the software's competition with other software programs out there that are ahead.
The movement issue could be bezier tweeners as DUDU suggested. Try using linear. To get a more organic feel you can adjust the in and out points.
If you want to stay with the bezier tweeners, you could use the graph editor to adjust the movements as well.
Those are the words I was looking for. I just couldn't remember them. It's been a while since I used any 3D program. I learned all about the magic of "graph editors" and tweening with bezier points etc in Maya animation courses I took. It was really helpful. It's unfortunate that Cararra has to be so squirrely/exaggerrated joint and morph movement between spanned out key frames.
Yes, but Carrara should not do everything for you!
I think that it is not a big problem to regulate its tweeners oneself, animation asks for a certain level of logical thought.
Have you worked in other more solid programs like Maya before? I've tested out Maya, 3DS Max, C4D, even vue and those don't seem to have this issue I'm speaking about. I remember once upon a time a few Carrara versions ago, this issue was fixed, only to reappear once daz took over and started messing with adding other stuff to it. What happened to techies fixing problematic issues? That's what I'd like to know.
I do not know Maya, I tested 3DSmax (it's a old Soviet gas factory for me), C4D have his qualities and evolve very well, Vue is not very convivial, but for the quality of renders and the facility to create animations, CARRARA is the best !
The couple Carrara/Poser is incomparable in the world of the 3D.
But each one has its preferences…
I am sure that DAZ works on all these problems and surely will impress us with his V9!
Right.
We all have the ability to set our default tweener choice within File > Preferences. Not only is it not a bug, it is a really good thing. Many people like the automated curves of a simple, default bezier. Others enjoy the full control of our own counter behaviors, making bezier a less optimal choice - especially with morphs that have the ability to go beyond normal usage range.
I had that problem years back - not knowing this stuff yet - I'd have to go in and keep adding new keys to counter the workings of a bezier tweener - when switching to linear would have been so much better and faster.
When I first used carrara I was baffled by the bezier tweener and a bit annoyed that it seemed to factor in position before and after the tweener. I just set linier as my default and set ease in and ease out. Just as smooth without the overshoot.
I have sometimes “Linear” selected by default and I quickly realized that when an animation is imported or done in Carrara, that made a lot of work to modify all the tweeners so that they are “Bezier " to have more flexible movements.
There are few transitions which do not support “Bezier” without adjustment and it is quickly modified if necessary.
Once I got more familiar with the bezier, I really enjoy working with it as well as linear. Often it does exactly what I need - straight out of the box. Other times I may have to adjust ease in and ease out between one or more such tweeners to get what I want. The moral of the story is that Carrara is a fantastic animation solution. Fenric gives us the ability to layer tweeners in the same space - something that I am still wrapping my head around the idea of. I'm not sure if it's possible to run a bezier across each iteration of an oscillator, but I had a need for that at one point. I tried it once - just once - to no avail. Instead it applied the bezier across the whole tweener along with the oscillator, if I remember correctly.
Would e fun to mix noise and oscillation, too! :)
Thanks for that info. I never had to worry about a default setting when I worked in Maya and even previous carrara series. This is why I thought Cararra animation table was messed up. Why did daz change the settings to default on a certain type of animation style? Before, all the bezier and linear animating was done by hand and you knew what needed to be done to make it a smooth or rigid animation depending on what you're working with. Now I have to choose a default, then go back and correct each tween between key frames to get the effect I want? That seems more of a hassle than if there were no defaults and just making minor corrections yourself.
All animation software starts with a default tweener. Otherwise you'd have to address the issue of what to put there with a pop-up, I suppose. Maya, 3DS, Poser, DS, Anim8or... they all have to start with some sort of default.
In any case... yeah... that's the bugger. I think that, in the Carrara world, developers can never satisfy all users. Some folks swear by Linear, others Bezier. I think that, at one point (and I could be wrong on this), the default was switched from linear to Bezier, or the other way around, due to complaints/requests. But for as many people that want the default to be this, there are just as many whom want that. ;)
Also, if you're importing aniBlock aniMations, via the aniBlock importer for Carrara, it is recommended that you do so with Linear tweeners set as default for those imports - so you don't have to select them all and switch them later.
Speaking of which, I should point out at this point that you can go into the timeline and drag around everything in your sequencer (all keyframes and tweeners) and switch tweeners globally that way if you need to. I often have differing needs. Bezier here, Linear there, Oscillators, etc.,
So I set everything up with whatever default I have set - most often it is Bezier (but I change it back and forth in preferences), and then go back and select one tweener, and SHIFT-Click other tweeners that need to be set to the same tweener type, and change them all at the same time - then proceed to the next tweener change(s).
It is this that helped me learn to just love the Carrara sequencer. If I have a lot of work to do in the sequencer, I'll drag that window up the screen and go to it. It's so awesome to have all of that info right there, easily selected, changed, copied/pasted (Alt-Drag selected keys), re-timed (Ctrl-Drag selected keys), etc., with all of the graph editor capabilities, too. Which reminds me... I still haven't looked into what has changed/improved in the new 8.5 graph editor. I'll have to look into that.
I can totally understand your concerns, though... Totally! Going from Maya to Carrara must be something. Personally, when I did that, I was very noob. Hell, I still consider myself a noob in this realm. But I was taught in Max while practicing at home on GMax. I was then introduced to Maya Ultimate, it was called at the time. I don't think (at least I didn't at the time) Maya and Max were under the same roof then. Anyways, I found Maya to be too different from MAX as far as where and how to find things - simply because I was used to MAX. I was told that, to launch into the game development theater of 3d modeling/animation that Maya was the tool to learn, and that I would quickly learn to find that it is better for such things. I mention that to the guy that taught me Max and, of course, he said that to each his own... and he's absolutely right. The biggest thing is to learn the techniques and principals. Knowing the software is huge. If you can learn how to get around in them all - all the better.
Heading into Carrara from Max, for me, was (and still is) a true dream. I love it. I had no real ambition to get into game development. I just want to make my own, animated movies. I totally love the Carrara interface and tools.
I did'nt know that one could do that… Thanks for this information !