any other Mac users having kernel panics with Carrara 8.5?
PeterH
Posts: 0
That's it, really - I've got a fairly complex animation project on the go, and about every day I get a kernel panic and have to restart my computer. I don't think I have ever experienced a kernel panic before in the five or so years I've had the iMac, and so far it has only occurred while Carrara is running. I think on every occasion I have been trying to do something else as well (browse the internet, look at emails etc) while Carrara was working away in the background. This was never a problem with earlier versions.
Any ideas? Thanks.
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My idea is more info. to help nail it down! ;-)
What may help on the hardware side of things is OS X version, some hardware specs, such as processor, RAM, HD space, etc.
What may help on the Carrara side of things is the version of Carrara, 64 bit or 32 bit, render settings, scene saved internally, locally or externally, video codec used or rendered to image sequence, rendered using the Batch Queue or not, etc. etc.
Hi, and thank you for replying.
I didn't include much detail in my original post because I was just trying to find out if it was a widespread problem. I am also experiencing two other new problems since installing 8.5 (and CMS, in order to be able to access the bundled content) - one has been mentioned in other posts (error when saving, usually ok if you do it again), the other is the screen going white when I change to the render room, and then reappearing as the mouse touches each screen area.
Like the kernel panics, it seems an odds-on certainty they are the result of one or more bugs in Carrara, which from past experience is not entirely unexpected (much though we love it when it works).
Anyway, one of my little rules is never argue with an evilproducer addict, particularly one who apparently resembles a T. rex channeling Sauron, so here is the information you requested:
Approx 5-year old iMac running Lion 10.7.5.
3.06 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GS 512 MB
4GB 800MHz DDR2 SDRAM
350 GB free HD space
Carrara 8.5 Pro build 243, 64 bit
Problems occur whether rendering low-res draft or hi-res photorealistic, and not always during rendering, but almost always when some other process is running as well as C8.5
Files saved using local settings, "compress file" box checked
animation rendered to png image sequence, no batch queue
desktop picture is currently a pleasing view of sunlit woodland ;o)
As before, thanks for any suggestions.
Sorry if I'm repeating things you may already know, but I figure even if you know this stuff, maybe some other new user will find it helpful. ;-)
Since I don't run C8.5, but rather C7.2 Pro which is 32 bit, I can only offer a theory abut the white flash and not the Kernel Panic. My thoughts on the white flash is that it's graphics card related. You could go into the Interactive Renderer in the Assembly room (it's the little up arrow within a circle) and adjust the texture map display downward from the default 2048 if you haven't done so already. This will only effect the assembly room view and will have no impact on the Render room settings.
While I was typing a couple thoughts occurred to me regarding the kernel panic. You're running with only 4GB of RAM. You mentioned it was a complex animated scene and you're not using the Batch Queue. Despite running 64 bit, with such a low amount of RAM there may be some things you need to do to optimize Carrara.
In the preferences, look for Imaging and Scratch Disk. Lower the texture spooling down without turning it off. DAZ_Spooky has suggested that on systems with a large amount of RAM that it should still be no more than half your available RAM. and for systems with a lower amount it should be even less. Carrara will reserve the RAM allocated for texture spooling even though it's not used which means less RAM for your other processes.
If you haven't done so, in the Assembly room, under the Edit menu, go to Remove Unused Masters and remove any unused object, unused shaders and consolidate shaders. Also, if you have any unused NLA clips, you can get rid of those as well.
If possible, save using the save locally option. This will result in Carrara referencing texture maps instead of storing them in the scene itself. When saving the image maps within Carrara, Carrara uses a high quality lossless fomat, which looks nice but eats a huge amount of space, and if the image is a ow res jpeg, it still gets upconverted and still uses a crapload of resources when loaded. The only caveat to saving locally is that if you move the texture map, Carrara will ask you to find it the next time you open the scene. I believe the geometry is saved internally. Also avoid saving the scene as compressed. I don't know if it helps for RAM or not, but it avoids corruption and the scene will load faster. If it's saved locally it shouldn't really increase the file size that much.
Render through the Batch Queue. It's easier on RAM, plus you can pause and resume the render. Also, if you have multiple cameras in the scene or if you wish to render to different resolutions or change any other Render room settings, you can load your scene into the Batch Queue as many times as you'd like and set different parameters for each one. Just remember to set the file name to something unique for each instance of the scene that is different, if that makes sense. ;-)
These may not help the kernel panics, but it may if they're due to hitting up against your RAM limits. With 64 bits, the best way to avoid RAM limitations is to up the amount of RAM in your system.
For reference, my system is 2003/04 1.8 Ghz. G5 with 4.5 GB RAM running C7.2 Pro and I rarely get memory issues with Carrara. My folks moved in with us when they retired and my mom brought her iMac, which is similar to yours with the same OS I believe. I occasionally use that as a render node with the addition of a MDD dual processor G4. So believe me, I know how to work with limitations! ;-)
Another thought is to try turning off the CMS. I believe it runs in the background and may also suck up resources. I know I've read in the past some users reported stability issues. Since I don't have C8.5 or CMS, when I read about it, it was purely an intellectual exercise so I didn't delve to deeply.
Carrara 8.5 crashes on me from time to time but doesn't cause kernel panics.
Maybe someone can answer but is 4GB RAM enough? I've got 16 and never think about it.
Have you tried the standard SMC and PRAM resets?
For Intel Macs (though you might want to double check your particular model):
SMC reset:
1. Shutdown
2. Unplug power
3. Wait 15 seconds
4. Plug in power, but don't start up
5. Wait 5 seconds then start up
PRAM Reset
1. Shut down
2. Start up
3. Immediately press and hold: Command-Option-P-R
4. The computer will restart again, you can let up
Also, could you be overheating your machine? I have the latest iMac so heat is not really a problem but my Mac mini that I often use to help out with renders gets really hot really fast. I had a 2009 iMac and it got mighty hot sometimes outputting 2D animation; never tried it with Carrara.
For animations, I try breaking the render down into smaller segments, say a few seconds each, then let things cool for a while before sending the next render. Not the easiest option but it works and let's me not worry about frying a 1 thousand dollar machine. Take the clips and combine them in some movie app or if they are image sequences use QuickTime.
4 GB seems low for a 64 bit application. Carrara can address so much more RAM.
Thanks to both of you for your detailed and helpful responses.
I agree that 4GB of RAM is not exactly cutting-edge, and more would be nice to have, but unfortunately it is all my ageing iMac is capable of holding. (Anyone would think they want you to periodically upgrade…) However, I should point out that I have been working on this animation for several years now, off and on, and never experienced kernel panics when using previous versions of (64-bit) Carrara. It may be that this sequence is just a lot more RAM-intensive.
Anyway, I'll try all the suggestions, and see how I get on. I think adjusting the texture spooling may prove to be helpful. I have always been a bit confused by that setting.
I have never used the batch queue, as I have never had more than one sequence ready to render, and if I want to stop and restart, rendering as an image sequence will allow that. I hadn't realised that there are advantages regarding RAM use, so I'll check it out.
Thanks again for your help, and have fun.
Had a kernel panic last night that was 100% in Carrara.
Had made a very simple test scene to render. It took my iMac 10 minutes to render. Once it was done, I tried to save to the desktop as a H264 movie. One minute later the machine had restarted.
Over the past two months I have had several panics, but the above resets improved the situation. This latest panic was certainly caused by Carrara.
I have a pending support question regarding Carrara and Mavericks and render nodes. I added this panic info to the topic. Hopefully somebody will get back to me soon...
Sorry to hear it. Hope you get some helpful response from the support folk. Incidentally, have you found upgrading to Mavericks has made any difference as far as kernel panics go, or with Carrara in general?
I sent one of the kernel panic logs to the Apple community support site, and one of the techie wizards there suggested that some security software (Trusteer Rapport) that I have could be responsible for the KPs. I didn't remove it completely, as I have had it for a long time before the KPs started, but I did disable it for the Carrara site, which I had added to its list of protected sites quite recently. (It's supposed to increase security for sites used for financial transactions, but I don't know what this actually involves).
Anyway, that was only a couple of days ago, but no KP since. I'm not technically clued-up enough to know whether this could actually have had any useful effect - new-fangled computers, it was all steam in my day - but I'll see what happens. Good luck with your own KPs.
I started playing with 3D apps about two months ago and started having kernel panics soon thereafter. I installed and deleted quite a few things over a month before settling on Carrara, so I should at some point run a clean install of the OS. That will be a few hours of fun...
Carrara is not the most stable app on my machine. You can tell from the UI that it is a little long in the legs; 8.5 is great but I am eagerly awaiting version 9, which I have heard rumor is due next spring.
So far no comment from Daz3D. My ticket is now being reviewed or something. Hopefully they will get back to me soon!
Too right. Carrara is not the most stable app, full stop (or period, depending where you are). The immensely helpful "An error has occurred" messages are unsurpassed in their annoyance factor. Brusque, and yet totally uninformative.
I too have high hopes for version 9. (Ever the optimist.) But whatever its bugs and weird idiosyncrasies - and there are more than a few -Carrara does strike me as being pretty good for the money. I hope you can have fun with it without too much tearing of hair.
Good luck with the help desk feedback.
When you saved the h264 movie to your desktop, was that using Carrara's Render room to set the h264 codec? In other words, did you select Quicktime Movie from the pulldown menu under File Formats, and the press the Options button to bring up Quicktime's list of codecs?
The reason I ask, is that the 64 bit version of Carrara can't render directly to Quicktime movies, because QT is still 32 bits. Your options are to render in 32 bit Carrara (which would suck) or to render to an image sequence and then use QT Pro to compile that into a movie file.
A disclaimer: I don't have C8.5 of any bit size. I use C7.2 Pro on my trusty, but aging G5. I have tried to follow current Mac issues, as I would like to update my version of Carrara and my hardware when finances permit.
For most testing, I have just stuck with QT, and yeah, it uses 32bit. It's what I know and I can plan around it. I also do a lot of work with sound and image sequences don't export sound. Sure, I could probably find another way, but it works for me, whatever the speed.
I have already factored the render speeds in and ordered a 2nd Mac mini to help out for a while until I can buy a Mac Pro with tons of cores.
Sorry to be dense, but do you mean you're rendering in Carrara 8.5 32 bit to QT? If you're rendering in a 64 bit version of Carrara to QT, that is where I've read the problem is. I don't recall how the issues manifested, but DAZ does say that there is an issue with it.
Everything I'm doing worked under 10.8. It stopped working when I moved to 10.9. So though it may have had bugs, it now doesn't work at all.
I installed render 32-bit on the mini, launched 32-bit Carrara on the iMac and tried a batch render of a very simple scene. It starts on the iMac, then simply freezes (just like what happened under 64-bit).
Quit render node on the mini.
The iMac just sits there for a while and then starts rendering again.
This is definitely a problem with the render node, 32 or 64 bit.
There was also no change if I output to QuickTime or to sequenced images.