Organizing Content - The Best Way?

DBuchter

I have been running 8.5 since beta, and I use Carrara fairly often at work, but I just started to realize how much I hate the organization of:

A. Carrara's default content
B. Carrara Native Content
C. My own content
D. All of the "Runtime" content

This all started when I just recently noticed that none of the default content was in the Browser tray. Today I finally decided to figure out where it was.

Using past experiences as my guide, I recall that when I installed previous versions of Carrara, default content including Scenes, an assortment of objects and Shaders appeared in the Browser Tray in their top-level tabs. When I downloaded Carrara Native Content and installed that, I seem to remember that content was spread through the default content and main tabs (please correct me if I'm remembering this incorrectly). And finally, when installing purchased content, that was loading that ridiculously organized Runtime folder (or apparently multiple as some people do). This content shows up in the "Content" tab of the Browser.

So this time, my process went like this:

1. Install latest build of Carrara 8.5 Pro
2. Put my personal folder of objects, shaders, etc. that I have created myself into the "My Presets" folder that the Carrara installation creates (in the Documents folder on a Mac, which is nowhere near the actually Carrara installation).
3. Make sure my Runtime folder from previous Carrara is located in the DAZ folder where the new Carrara installation can find it.
4. Install Carrara Native Content file with this new Instal Manager program (oy!)
5. Look at my Daz content that I purchased in this new Install Manager and wonder what I should be doing about the Runtime folder that I carried over from previous version. I contemplate adding all of that purchased content again, but hold.
6. Automatically load the Runtimes in Carrara... which show up in the Content tab and the Smart Content tab (not everything shows up in both - why are there two???)
7. Finally realize the Native Content is in these Content tabs as well (yeah both) after thinking the installation didn't work because I though the Native Content would be located in the Scenes, Objects, Shaders, ext. tabs.
8. Manually load the default content folders.
9. And here I am finally... with a ton of content, but it's a jumble of shit. I think it's the Runtime content that is really throwing me off right now - those folders are a disaster.

My question to the group is,; What is the best way to organize all of this and how do you do it? I'm sure folders can be moved and renamed in the OS so that this can be organized better, I'd like to hear who has done it the best. Thank you, thank you in advance!

wetcircuit

dbuchter said:

...

My question to the group is,; What is the best way to organize all of this and how do you do it? I'm sure folders can be moved and renamed in the OS so that this can be organized better, I'd like to hear who has done it the best. Thank you, thank you in advance!

If you have specific figures, put all their clothes and specific stuff in individual runtimes for that figure (V4, Gen1, M4, LowRes, animals, etc)

If you collect a lot of one thing (I collected hair for a while) put them all in their own runtime (esp since they work with multiple figures)

I put all my poses in their own runtime since usually you can put a pose on the wrong figure and get most of the way there)

I'm putting plants and architecture in their own runtime - thinking these are specifically for "outdoor" scenes…

A separate runtime for small props, scene filler, desk clutter, things to hold - because these always get lost, and every scene needs extra clutter to look realistic.

Genres actually aren't as smart as I thought (Sci-Fi, Suburban, Fantasy, Toon, etc) because I tend to use items that weren't intended to go together…. Although I keep my Toon figures separate from my realistic ones...

Lastly USE CARRARA'S BROWSER AS MUCH AS YOU CAN.
Fixed an outfit specific to a character? Make a new folder and drag them to the Browser. Got a class of shaders? Drag them to the browser OFTEN. So much better to pull an item out of Carrara's browser than the Poser Runtime again and again...

Dartanbeck

I wrote this in the other thread:
While on this subject, allow me to point out that my Carrara Walkthrough articles, even though still mostly under development, have some good tips on getting stuff situated for a long term goal of glee within Carrara. Once you crack the code on how easily we can organize our stuff in the browser, it really begins to shine as an excellent file sorting system, complete with thumbnails if you choose to use them (I love thumbnails, personally).

Currently in the walkthrough, that I feel are a good read on this subject are:

Your Carrara Browser - Making great stuff isn’t as cool if you can’t remember where you put it. Let’s get some good habits going right from the start

Daz Install Manager - Installing Custom Poser Runtimes - Basic walkthrough of designing your own custom runtime structure

Navigating in Carrara - some good tips on how to get around the work space, go to where you want to be at specific times, and how to send stuff to specific locations within your scene

I am also currently writing an article on getting started in Carrara for the Carrara Cafe. I've been working on it on and off for a while now, and it will be fairly lengthy, but a good all around set of instructions on getting comfortable in Carrara. Once you're good and comfy, Carrara becomes the place to be as so many things are possible.

Dartanbeck

You'll notice through many of my posts that I am a strong advocate for keeping Genesis separate from everything else when installing. Here's why:

In DS, this is not such a problem. But in Carrara, the DAZ Studio Library folders that contain nothing of value to us are not hidden. Why? Because there just might be something of value in them. Something got screwy in there, and I think that it originated with the fact that it's not an issue in DS, and these artists are making their goods for DS. So there ends up being piles of folders where there really shouldn't be. I wish that a place like DAZ 3D would be as strict with their artists in terms of file/naming conventions and allocations of where files go, as they are with the UV Mapping of the models they sell. Again... since it never shows as an issue in DS....

Okay, that said let's move onwards.

Runtime structures have been set up in Carrara with specific folders hidden. This is a big help. You may choose to show these folders - but don't. We don't want Poser lights and cameras - we want to use Carrara lights and cameras - for example.

So Runtimes actually work fine in Carrara - you just need to get used to how they were organized from the start, which can be a little confusing - but nothing that bad. Figures and Props being the one that confuses most, since they both include models. Originally, props was for any model that doesn't contain a rig. In Poser, if you parent a prop to a figure, and then save it to the "Props" library, you get the option to save it as a "Smart Prop", which will load the prop to the selected figure according to how it was positioned when you saved it - so the figure can actually be posed and sent off to another part of the scene, and the Smart Prop will still load to the correct position upon that figure. Since the Figures category contains anything with a rig, it holds all conforming models like hair and clothing, etc., but also can contain things that technically could be considered a prop. It all depends upon how the creating artist envisioned it.

Genesis, on the other hand, was made along with DAZ Studio 4. They were both designed to work together. This is why I still strongly suggest having DS installed, if you wish to use Genesis. It's footprint isn't too huge and, even more, it can export duf files that Carrara 8.5 can load. So if you have an issue with a Genesis item in Carrara, you can try setting it up in DS first, and exporting it as a duf - then load it back into Carrara for more optimal results. Truly, you shouldn't really need to take this route - I'm just stating an example.

Now, Genesis uses a new file organization structure - the DAZ Library.
I like to install ALL of my Genesis-related items to the same location (default "My DAZ 3D Library") using the DIM. With the new delivery method of zip files, DIM holds the easiest and fastest way to uninstall items before re-installing their updates (Edit: It does this automatically - you don't have to ask it to uninstall first - just install the update and, if it needs to, DIM will uninstall anything that it needs to). As DS and Genesis evolved from DS 4.0 to DS 4.6, and from dsf to duf, some of the Genesis files needed to be deleted to prevent errors and confusion. This is why I strongly recommend DIM if for nothing else but Genesis and its related products - and then install all of those things to the same place.

Why not install everything to that "My DAZ 3D Library"? I mean, it even has a 'runtime' folder!

Okay, the runtime folder in the My DAZ 3D Library structure is only used for textures, when it comes to Genesis and Genesis related products. Since it is used for textures, it must remain.

When I first tried using the DIM, I decided to have it install everything to that My DAZ 3D Library, the DIM default installation location. Whoa... what a mess it made!

You see, in the "My DAZ 3D Library" within the Carrara content tab, the only place you need to go for Genesis and its related products, is the "People" category. Everything you need is in there. The same holds true with the DAZ Horse 2, which is basically a Genesis animal, except that it and all of its products are to be found in the "Animals" category.

When I installed everything to that library, that list, where you find "People" and "Animals" becomes immensely and annoyingly cluttered with all manner of folders. This is my grievance I was talking about earlier. I've never seen such a disorganized mod-podge of junk! How this ever passed the stringent QA process at DAZ 3D (which truly is a great, strict process of testing), is beyond me. Moral of the story... Don't Do It!!!

Instead, read my article that I linked to above about runtimes. Use the runtime structure, as Holly has pointed out, to install everything that doesn't have to do with Genesis.

Of course, we still have another category altogether:
Carrara-Specific products
Unfortunately, Carrara will never automatically recognize new folders within its browser structure, without being added by the individual user. The only exception is if you use a directory that was already in place by the Native Content installation - and still, that only works on systems that have had Native Content installed. This is why we must use the file/folder menu to Add Folder to the browser.

Once that's all sorted out, the article I've linked to above regarding Your Carrara Browser is all about the handy structure that Carrara will automatically update. You've pointed out that it is nowhere near the installation directory for Carrara - this is purposeful and excellent. This makes it possible to obliterate Carrara and its directories without loosing your saves. It also allowed me to copy/paste the whole works when in beta - so I didn't over-write my 8.1 saves with 8.5 versions - as they both had their own structure. ;)

evilproducer

Dartanbeck said:

Carrara-Specific products
Unfortunately, Carrara will never automatically recognize new folders within its browser structure, without being added by the individual user. The only exception is if you use a directory that was already in place by the Native Content installation - and still, that only works on systems that have had Native Content installed. This is why we must use the file/folder menu to Add Folder to the browser.

Once that's all sorted out, the article I've linked to above regarding Your Carrara Browser is all about the handy structure that Carrara will automatically update. You've pointed out that it is nowhere near the installation directory for Carrara - this is purposeful and excellent. This makes it possible to obliterate Carrara and its directories without loosing your saves. It also allowed me to copy/paste the whole works when in beta - so I didn't over-write my 8.1 saves with 8.5 versions - as they both had their own structure. ;)

Once you add a folder to your browser, if you update it, it will see the new content. At least C7 does. Carrara treats it like any of your other folders.

wetcircuit

evilproducer said:

Once you add a folder to your browser, if you update it, it will see the new content. At least C7 does. Carrara treats it like any of your other folders.

Sub folders also get added automatically (upon restart, or clicking Update Folder under the Browser control dropdown…) but I kinda hate those tiny triangles to spin open the folders.

Dartanbeck

evilproducer said:

Once you add a folder to your browser, if you update it, it will see the new content. At least C7 does. Carrara treats it like any of your other folders.

In the quote which you've referred to, I believe "products" was the key word there. Sorry if it wasn't worded better. Allow me to explain further:

Even though the installation structure has a Presets folder, and within Presets there's Objects and others, making or adding a new folder into the tab's folder will do absolutely nothing to the browser, as one would expect it to. The only exception being if you added said folder to one of the folders already in place by Native Content. This is even if you "Update Folder", restart Carrara.... whatever. The only way to get the new folder into the browser is to either "Add Folder", using the File/Folder menu on the browser or by dragging the folder into a folder that is already recognized by the browser.

This can be a bit of a PITA for PAs making Carrara products - as you really have to include instructions on how to add the content to the browser. I have been lucky for most things - being able to just install them to folders already allocated by Native Content - the exception being NLA Clips and Shaders for my Mil Dragon 2 animation kit, whose folders must be added using the file/folder menu.

Dartanbeck

holly wetcircuit said:

evilproducer said:

Once you add a folder to your browser, if you update it, it will see the new content. At least C7 does. Carrara treats it like any of your other folders.

Sub folders also get added automatically (upon restart, or clicking Update Folder under the Browser control dropdown…) but I kinda hate those tiny triangles to spin open the folders.My custom browser setup is loaded with little triangles ;)
I like having a few, vague, main selections and then break them down from there. It's just easier for me.

Here's an example:
Rosie is obviously my most actively developed subject, so I'll pick on her.
Within my My Presets > Objects I have a fairly small selection, one being "People". Inside the People folder I have Townsfolk, friends, villains, etc., categories that I use to simply save all sorts of Carrara-Optimized people to. Heroes like Dartanbeck and Rosie get their own, separate folder. Within the Rosie folder I have all sorts of folders. One for expressions(animated with motion cameras), one for martial arts moves (since I had to really work hard to optimize the moves to her custom scaling, etc.,), etc., and also both Rosie and Dartan folders include "Clothing" folders so that I can save individual costume elements and entire, complete costumes for later use. Check this out:

When I go to my Objects folder, the first thing I see are saved preset scenes for the resolution I use, 1280 x 720. The first is an empty scene except one camera and the default distant light. The next has a modified version of the three point lighting scene that comes with Carrara, but without the primitives, and is set to 1280 x 720 with my most used render setting applied. I have a few others with backgrounds preloaded in for quick outdoor scene setups. This is the Objects folder as if I didn't add any other folders to it.
Now when I open People and then "- Rosie 4.6" there's a file there called Rosie and another called RT Hair. The hair file is the three conforming hair pieces with my custom morphs added, my latest shader settings, and are grouped. But I'm going to open the file named "Rosie". Otherwise I could go to any number of folders I've added to her folder that I needed for saving all of the preset things I have her set up and ready to do on the screen.

Opening the Rosie file I get a group called "Rosie". Inside that group is a group of cameras, each set to not show up in the scene - unless I place a check in "Show in 3D View". These include Rosie - Face, Rosie - Full, RT-Film Cam 1, RT-Film Cam 2. Below the cameras group is the actual Rosie 4.6 figure, whom has an accent light rig parented to her hip, and the target for aiming the lights is by her chin. I used to hide those from view, like the cameras. Now I leave them visible, but scaled them down to be fairly unnoticeable. Below the main figure is the RT Hair group and below that is the Clothing group. The Clothing group contains anything that conforms to her figure.

Having each of my Characters follow this simple structure is simple using the Character Creation file I made based on this Rosie file, but empty of any figures, but includes the cameras and lights with generic names aiming at generic targets, set to ignore everything but their generic group. In previous versions of Carrara, I used to have to rename all of these generic elements. With 8.5, when I change the target name, the modifier that pointed at the generic target updates itself to the new name. Most excellent!

The clothing group has become so cool. I can drag the whole group to the browser, effectively storing a complete outfit.

I use similar techniques for storing all sorts of helpful tools and effects for Carrara. I'm getting ahead of myself, though, as most of this stuff, and more, is coming in a new article I'm working on. But I just wanted to clarify a bit.

0oseven

In the beginning when I didn't understand Carrara's way of doing things I set up my content like this.

Folders are prefixed Ch_ for characters SC_ scenes ( meaning things you put in scenes - including props ) Also some miscellaneous folders as required.

Central to the idea is a master template of folders of which I keep an empty copy From that I made three working copies.

1 for downloaded content If I buy content I download it here
1 for thumbnails and description I also save a product image and copy paste info
1 for installed content When I install it goes here in a folder named exactly the same as the other two

As I dont have ALL content installed if I'm looking foe something I browse through my thumbnails and look up details I about whats included etc. You could achieve the same thing by recording web links but that I found is a bit unreliable as Daz can change/discontinue items.

heres a shot of the folder structure and a thumbnails file

works pretty well but was a pain starting off updaing my existing content detail but with new stuff it's just a minute to get the picture and product detail.

However I have been confused by the new system especially where you have to use the daz installer - I cant reall follow the smart content thing at all so dont use it relying on my system above.

One other thing - I have a "folder template " for the browser tray. see image. This is in addition to the folders created by the Carrara native content..
This is where I save anything made with Carrara by dragging file into the browser tray.

It worked for me so far - hope the new Daz Installer doesn't mess it up
(edit) why are the images not stacked ???
(edit) Must be IE10 as they are ok in firefox !!

.

DBuchter

Awesome ideas - thanks for the responses guys! Once I dig in, I'll report back.