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5400rpm vs 7200pm Hard Drives

Steve KSteve K Posts: 3,235
edited December 1969 in Art Studio

I'm looking for a new computer, and have been quite happy with a long series of Toshiba laptops. Most recently I got a Satellite with Win 7, Core i7, dual internal 7200 rpm drives (I use one for bootable backup with "Casper"), 8GB RAM, 17" screen. It runs Carrara 8.1 Pro great for short animations. Unfortunately, Toshiba Direct no longer supplies 7200rpm drives in the Satellite, only in the business oriented Tecra. The latter would be OK, I've owned them before, but no dual drives. So I could backup to an external USB drive, but I'd prefer internal.

So. Are 5400rpm drives adequate for short SD animations? A little Googling seemed to show yes, since the file sizes are small compared to lengthy live HD video, etc., and might fit into RAM, say 8GB or more. Opinions?

Comments

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    5400 RPM drives are just going be slower...overall.

    If you can bump the RAM up, that will help, because the more you can fit into RAM the 'quicker' it will go.

    As far as file access and storage, 540rpms are fine...but they will be noticeably slower when using them for intermediate storage, clip compositing, etc.

    Personally, if I were getting a laptop with dual drives, I would have an SSD for OS/programs and a 72000 RPM for everything else.

  • macleanmaclean Posts: 2,438
    edited December 1969

    mjc1016 said:
    Personally, if I were getting a laptop with dual drives, I would have an SSD for OS/programs and a 72000 RPM for everything else.

    Yep. Me too.

    I haven't had a 5400rpm drives for years. I use an SSD with 2x 10,000rpms. HDDs are so cheap nowadays, it hardly costs much more to get the faster speeds.

    mac

  • Lissa_xyzLissa_xyz Posts: 6,116
    edited December 1969

    I'm with these guys. Granted I don't use a laptop as my primary machine, but my hubby and one of our daughters do.
    I follow the same on my PC though. SSD for OS, 7200 for apps (I like keeping my OS drive clean, and it's only 160GB), and a 5400 for storage and my runtimes.

  • fixmypcmikefixmypcmike Posts: 19,583
    edited December 1969

    mjc1016 said:

    Personally, if I were getting a laptop with dual drives, I would have an SSD for OS/programs and a 72000 RPM for everything else.

    72000 RPM's are also good for making a quick getaway in a makeshift helicopter.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    fixmypcmike said:
    mjc1016 said:

    Personally, if I were getting a laptop with dual drives, I would have an SSD for OS/programs and a 72000 RPM for everything else.

    72000 RPM's are also good for making a quick getaway in a makeshift helicopter.

    Dang...I really should replace this keyboard...the '0' key has been giving me fits lately...but it would be nice to have a 72000 rpm drive.

  • Lissa_xyzLissa_xyz Posts: 6,116
    edited December 1969

    I googled 72000rpm for giggles. The results made me /facepalm
    https://www.google.com/search?q=72000rpg&oq=72000rpg&aqs=chrome..69i57.1915j0j7&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#q=72000rpm&start=0

  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 3,235
    edited December 1969

    Yeah, with those 72000 rpm drives you need a special case or something. My last try did not go well ...

    its-never-done-that-before_copy.jpg
    446 x 500 - 185K
  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 3,235
    edited December 1969

    Thanks to all for the feedback. After some more research including live chat with Toshiba Direct, I am learning about the current state of hard drives. In particular, the "Hybrid 8G" drives offer a combination of traditional hard drive and SSD. One manufacturer (Seagate?) even stopped making 7200 rpm drives, offering only 5400 hybrids. Also the full size SSD's are now fairly affordable, I think. So here's where I'm headed for a Carrara 8 Pro short animation machine (about $1300):

    Toshiba Satellite P70-ABT3G22

    LAPTOP SUMMARY
    Customized

    Intel® Core™ i7-4700MQ Processor (6M Cache, up to 3.40 GHz) with Intel®
    Turbo Boost Technology
    Windows 8.1
    8GB DDR3L 1600MHz (4GB + 4GB)
    1.0TB (5400rpm); Hybrid 8G Serial ATA hard disk drive
    256GB mSATA Solid State Drive (SSD) [Primary Drive]
    No Secondary Hard Drive Installed [Can Be Added]
    2GB GDDR3 NVIDIA ® GeForce® GT 740M with Optimus™ Technology
    DVD SuperMulti (+/-R double layer) drive

    I'm a little concerned that the 256GB SSD is a little small, but looking at my current setup, I think its adequate. Toshiba only offers 512GB SSD's in specialized laptops that don't meet my needs.

    Any thoughts? TIA.

  • DUDUDUDU Posts: 1,945
    edited December 1969

    Do the HDD 5200 rpm always exist in the United States?
    Here in Europe, there is not even more in the museums…
    But for the safeguards, it could still be useful and with a larger longevity. The best: 1 SSD for the system and at least 2 HDD in raid for the data of work…;-)

  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 3,235
    edited December 1969

    DUDU_00001 said:
    Do the HDD 5200 rpm always exist in the United States?
    Here in Europe, there is not even more in the museums…

    You think that's bad, look at the speed and price of Internet service in the US:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/24/us-internet-speed_n_3645927.html

    But no, of course we don't have 5200 rpm hard drives! We have 5400 rpm, thank you very much. ;-P

    Kidding aside, yes, the 5400 rpm drive is pretty common with vendors like Toshiba, a major player. I think the idea is that most users don't need much speed for surfing, the occasional Facebook update, and email. For speedier apps, the answer seems to be the hybrid drives, as I mentioned. And of course they offer SSD's for those who need them.


    But for the safeguards, it could still be useful and with a larger longevity. The best: 1 SSD for the system and at least 2 HDD in raid for the data of work…;-)

    I use external USB drives for data backup, the internal hard drive is for backing up the system disk with a program called "Casper". I looked at RAID a while back and didn't see a lot of advantage, but I don't feel strongly about it. So ... an SSD primary drive with an internal hybrid backup hard drive seems like my best compromise. Keep in mind I'm talking about a laptop.

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I use the Dual Drive Setup on mine. SSD and Standard. Keep in mind the SSD's still have not matched the shelf life of traditional drives at this time but are much better than they were.

  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 3,235
    edited December 1969

    Jaderail said:
    I use the Dual Drive Setup on mine. SSD and Standard. Keep in mind the SSD's still have not matched the shelf life of traditional drives at this time but are much better than they were.

    And just when I was feeling comfortable ... ;-)

    I would have thought with no moving parts, the SSD would last longer than a spinning device. I mean, I can't even figure out how to oil these hard drives.

    You are talking about a laptop? The "standard" drive is not hybrid? 5400 rpm? Are you using the "standard" drive to (bootably) backup the primary drive?

    Will Carrara 8 Pro run on my Android tablet? Does the Code name "Sapphire" mean anything to anybody? :gulp:

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited March 2014

    Well no, the SSD tech is still newish. The First ones and even the newer ones still do not have the same usage life at this time. But I do trust them well enough to use it as my OS drive at this time. Mine is a CORSAIR 360GB Solid State Drive SATA III it should hold up very well.

    I use a External as a Backup just as you plan to do. I'm confident enough. I think it will out last the CPU, they get faster and better so fast now I'm almost afraid to buy CPU's, they could be outdated the next day....

    Post edited by Jaderail on
  • Lissa_xyzLissa_xyz Posts: 6,116
    edited December 1969

    They degrade easier because the more they are accessed, the smaller the lifespan, which is why they're mainly used as OS drives and maybe a handful of apps, or as scratch disks, rather than the only drive in a system.

  • DUDUDUDU Posts: 1,945
    edited December 1969

    Steve, I think you find a good compromise for a laptop and I am happy to learn that one remakes discs 5400 rpm…:-)
    I use to make a lot of realizations video and I must be on the top with the speed of the disks and RAMs.
    It's therefore RAID config. double the speed of transfer, and this kind of software read a few video files in the same time, that is not the case for 3D softwares who works overall with the rams.
    SSD is excellent for O.S. and programs if you put your datas on another drive.
    For as much, the number of writings on the same zone of the “disc” is limited to a few hundreds of thousands (what is quickly reached in the event of use of virtual memory or files of log).
    There are two kinds of discs SSD, with chip MLC and SLC:
    Chip MLC
    It is the abbreviation of “Multi-Level Cell” . This chip is used in the SSD great public. Its advantage is in its low costs of production. These disadvantages are that it does not make it possible to reach importants speeds of transfer, it consumes much more, and at one lifespan weaker than chip SLC.
    Chip SLC
    It is the abbreviation of “Individual Level Cell”. One finds this chip in the professional SSD, like in the top-of-the-range SSD. It presents the advantage to have increased speeds of transfer, a less important consumption, and a lifespan more important than chip MLC. Its only disadvantage is its very high manufacturing costs.

  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 3,235
    edited December 1969

    OK, thanks to all. It is kind of confusing, I am still thinking about it. One thought, I suppose the "hybrid" drives must have the same shorter lifespan, since they have an SSD component. Correct?

    BTW, here is an interesting article on SSD life and how to extend it:

    http://www.pcworld.com/article/2043634/how-to-stretch-the-life-of-your-ssd-storage.html

  • DUDUDUDU Posts: 1,945
    edited December 1969

    I had not thought of disabling the "search indexing ", thank you for this link.
    I also moved the file of pagination on another disc:
    The file of pagination of Windows (pagefile.sys, generally located at the root of the C:\ disc) is a piece of reserved disk space that Windows uses to discharge the data of the RAM. This unloading does not occur only when the RAM installed is not sufficient; it is carried out constantly, particularly for the data which do not need to be available instantaneously.

    As for the defragmentation, a great number of actions of read/write are carried out on your disc SSD. To prevent that your disc SSD does not wear prematurely, you can move the file of pagination on another disc (traditional hard drive). You will be able to thus release from this method of invaluable gigabytes of your disc SSD.

    Afflicted, but I was not interested yet in the hybrid discs, but I suppose that you can manage spaces yourself?

  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 3,235
    edited December 1969

    DUDU_00001 said:
    I had not thought of disabling the "search indexing ", thank you for this link.
    ... but I was not interested yet in the hybrid discs, but I suppose that you can manage spaces yourself?

    I don't know.

    Here's another article on hybrid SSD's compared to SSD's and hard drives:

    "Conclusion: Throw away your old school hard drives. With the 1TB version of Seagate’s Hybrid SSD clocking in at $120, I emphatically recommend it as your new solution for deep storage. If you’re a true speed demon, consider a small capacity SSD to act as just your operating system and boot drive, with this Hybrid SSD handling all of your other data."

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2013/04/21/crunching-the-numbers-should-you-buy-a-hybrid-ssd/

  • DUDUDUDU Posts: 1,945
    edited December 1969

    At first sight it is a technology with a future…
    I do not find any information relate to the management of the disk spaces, but surest will be always to make regular back up on an external disc (or two)…
    I make some each day for my data and regularly for my system.

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