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So, I thought about this some, and decided to add some lines, then do that thickness thing. Followed by a good look around to put lines back in there place.
Then I tossed in 'Some' edge protection lines (two highlighted below). They do nothing for the shape, there just there to make corners look sharper on the object, and to reduce odd shading effects where needed.
I was unsure where I wanted/needed some others, so I sent the thing to Studio to look at how the shape behaved and the surface shading.
Without SubD above, and with SubD below.
Now the edges that have the edge protection lines do look good. Some others, not so much. And there is that odd shading going on as well. So at this point, I'm looking at the geometry of the entire bracelet, and thinking about where I can put loops of edge protection lines without adding a ridicules amount of Polycount. The tricky bit of it all, is Studio likes quads (4 sided polygons). Triangles tend to shade funny, and things with more then five sides sometimes crashes studio with some shaders on them. So in the end, it's got to look like graph paper, with the least amount of squares possible so it will work with limited RAM (Iray Graphics card limits, and older computers).
So, the fun continues, lol.
Remember you can use that technique I showed on the bowl to reduce three lines into one and still have it all be quads. (just make sure after you do that it looks sorta like a diamond and not like a triangle, you'll need to move the middle point a little bit out, doesn't have to be much, but if you have basically a triangle with an extra point in the middle of one of the sides of it it'll render weird, pull it out .25mm (or whatever, barely percievable) and it'll render correctly.
And that is precisely what I was looking at. I was trying to figure out if I had enough vertical lines between the cutout section and the first UVzone Poly.
That, and unlike the circle plate, I can not remove entire loops of lines (I'll need to do it one at a time where needed). Also...
I need to move that point to the right... Along the surface not XYZ cardinal directions, lol.
Select two lines one line away from where you want the two diamonds to be, click the connect button up by the drag/rectangular selection and point/line/poly selector, center top of the UI, backspace and remove those.. will make trianges at the ends you'll need to fix but easier than doing one by one.
And using that "Backspace" key on the center line in the triangle makes it a diamond. That is cool. I'll call this one, looking at options.
This is what I'm looking at. Putting the diamonds to the right of that corner, places that odd point in XYZ cardinal direction space. However, that is a corner, and I'm not sure how that will play with surface tab smoothing. Not to say, it's getting kind of cramped in there, lol.
turn the transparency off and send me a clear screenshot to mark up
My line drawing skills are not all that great in GIMP, I'm use to doing that mostly in Ms Paint with the line tool, so sorry about the messy markup, lol.
This, is just about all the lines this thing needs, so it is not that bad, tho I don't mind trying to reduce it some. And I don't need to eliminate ALL the lines, just reduce them some, especially the really close ones from the corner protection where corner protection is not needed.
And in the idea of simply 'reducing' unnecessary verticies, there is a few different ways to go about it for any given surface. Me and Fisty did chat about this some and without words, agreed that eliminating all the excess lines would be unreasonably difficult.
So I did step away from this for a few days, and simply mindlessly fussed around in studio for a bit, lol.
I did try something that has been on my mind for some time, mixing a few different figure shapes as an experiment.
All the dials that are faded out, I did not touch (thee controlled by the others). The mat used is from Maeki, and I dialed her back, and dialed in the others. I fiddled with the dials for a bit last night, and decided 'Good enough'. The figure shapes all combine in a rather 'constructive' way to exaggerate some areas, so I kept backing them off to compensate. One of those, each one adds a heathy little bit of something, yet combined it explodes out of control, lol. I ended up adding in some Zev0 dials (Growing up, and Shape Shift) to tame some of the over exaggerated features in the end.
So that is Maeki with some Wachiwi and Zaniyah mixed in.
OMG, I broke Paloma!
Ah, ok, not that bad. I was trying different outfit combos on her for that chair render, and then this happened. I just want to know one thing. How the hell do I get her legs back! And how do I keep this from ever happening again, not good.
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/68932/g3f-clothes-that-make-body-parts-disappear-how-to-get-them-back
I have a serious problem with this, and let me explain why. There are outfits that let you know what the shape of a figure is like (some more revealing then others), and then there is outfits that change the shape of a figure to something completely different. I'm not particular fond of saying "This is (name)" when the shape portrayed is NOT that of the named figure.
Fortunately for me, the Abigail Outfit only uses that Geo-graft junk, to get around some other problems, and not to deceptively change the figures shape.
I find it very funny that we both ran into the same problem today on two different outfits.
Actually, that was back when you were starting to show me how to rig the back of that chair. The legs disappearing part ended up on the back burner.
Ahh.. so my email rant just reminded you. LOL
Seeing as Content creation is an 'In' topic here, this is just a note in passing with something I'm making a graph of for the G3F stuff I have.
I have heard rumblings from some, that this is NOT a valid test, as it kicks out Smoothing, and something else from what I see.
However, from the way the chart of What works with whom is filling out, it is a tell tale sign it will NOT work threw auto follow alone on non supported figures (Figures that don't have custom fit morphs in the outfit for them).
It's an incredibly simple test, and only a theory at the moment. I grab (left click and hold) a shaping dial, move it up a little and then back down to zero without releasing the mouse button. If there is blatant poke threw all over the place with the outfit in question, It will have considerable difficulty in those spots on other figure shapes. I have been testing six outfits (so far), that four of them fail this test. So far, those same four outfits do NOT work with any of the custom figure shapes I've tried them on.
The two outfits that pass the test, work on almost everyone, and without smoothing in most cases.
To clairify, he's talking about outfits made for G3F that don't perfectly fit the base G3F with their smoothing off. I have no idea how that gets out of a modeling program much less through QA..
My question would be...are they really G3F outfits or just ones that were made for G2F that never were finished...and 'cleaned' up with just smoothing?
I've done that with a couple of things I was making for previous generations...but as I wasn't planning on distributing them I didn't bother taking them back into Blender to get a better fit. The one thing I did put out, I did go back and custom fit, because without smoothing this is EXACTLY the types of problems I was having with them. And yes, it was more time to actually fit it...but it was a lot less than starting over from scratch would have been OR the amount of time playing around trying to get it 'right' without smoothing on.
I think it is a tad worse then just Gen-6 stuff forced onto gen-7. As some things loaded into an empty scene fitted to nothing, are not even remotely any genesis shape.
Yes I tried that out of morbid curiosity with one of those 'Bad' outfits. The only one that would remotely fit in the thing without fitting it to her, was Aiko3 (yes Three). lol.
Admittedly the fit is not perfect, it's a lot closer then any of the gen-4 threw gen-7 figures. And the outfits alone is not all of what I've been experiencing as well. Some figures appear to just not work with anything at all. So it is multiple problems all piling up on me for a very bad Generation-7 experience. So bad, that I actually had to sit down and try to make each outfit fit each figure, and graph out whom works or not with what.
My initial findings with the Zodiac outfit may be some what erroneous. I've noticed a spot on the back, that appears to be a brush stroke of sorts. This spot has varying amounts of poke threw, depending on whom is dialed in, and smoothing is utterly useless in dealing with it. The included 'ADJBum1' also dose not address this location.
It's there on FWSA Hanna and Livia, yet not on Natasha.
And it is not just one PA's figures by the way. LY Alexis and LY Ashlyn are clean, yet there it is again on LY Beatrix.
My apologies for the misinformation earlier. I will say, this is not my preferred view, It is not visible in the view field till rendered on most of them, and as such, I missed it until now. FWSA Camile and Adaline both have the 'speck', however Adaline has far larger problem and more blatant issues elsewhere.
Heres another one, that I often end up shaking my head at in dismay. The location of the included adjustments, or morphs.
I had initially thought this would fit Amandla with the use of the dials (the chopped off not in my former chart screen-cap). However I honestly didn't look down here from below. Also with smoothing on, it only appears in render and not the view field, so it is easy to miss. I noticed it on another figure, and decided I better go check the former figures I thought was 'OK'.
There is a dial for moving the 'Back side' out. And it appears at first glance that a setting in the vicinity of 40 fixes the spot of poke threw.
Unfortunately, it moves everything back there out so far, you can see clear threw to the other side. While the claim that it has adjustments is true, this is a spot that the outfit pokes threw on plane G3F with smoothing off. As such, it would have been nice to have an adjustment specifically for this spot. Having adjustments is nice to have, tho as the saying is, location location location.
Because sometimes, the fit is so bad, smothing will never fix it.
Back wrinkles. My G3F figures don't have finger prints, they have "Shoulder Blade prints", lol.
Now at first glance, some of them look the same, however there all in different spots, and very unique to each figure that has them. It's not even symmetrical on many of them.
I do find it rather funny and entertaining in a way, so long as it dose not cause Poke threw. Most outfits that do work do have adjustments that allow the poke threw to be dealt with. However because of the uniqueness of each figures wrinkles, making a single morph to address them all is practically impossible.
Now I will venture a guess, that this is some kind of 'Think' that was supposed to make cloths fit smoothly across the back, yet for whatever reason it has gone into spasms or something. It may be something in Studio, or something in Z-whatever-brush used to make the figure shape. I'll guess, for whatever reason the mesh density of whatever is pushing the cloths in or out back there is either a lower density then the figure, or the adjustment mesh thing is still using G2F geometry. Resulting in the thing not lining up with the figure mesh, causing the dramatic peaks and valleys, something akin to Moire interference of a sorts.
Whatever it is, I still like the PA's works, and it dose effect more then just the few PA s mentioned above. Further more, it is not on every single G3F figure as well, some figures do not have any “Shoulder Blade prints”, I will assume they work with stone for a living, lol.
Those areas almost look like some morph was on when the model was sculpted and is now doubled.
The characters themselves look great thoguh, it's just the morphs transfering to the clothes. I think it has something to do with how DS is calculating base resolution of characters that only have HD morphs rather than a base morph with HD details added on.
That sounds like a possibility. Raiya's Kelly (non HD) is fine, tho the Kelly HD dial dose make the wrinkles.
I'd say this is bug report material. For DS devs, not outfit/character makers.
Without going into six month lomg rants and rounds with Tech, I agree. However aside from the back wrinkles, it has esentualy been said that because it is not a "Daz Original" (name-7), it is soly my responsibility to fix it. As for the back wrinkles, I'm not sure what is causing it, and thus not sure whether it is a mistake in the Figures or a Studio bug. What do I file the ticket under essentially, lol.
Egyptian Bracelet status. I do understand that some PAs 'must' ship stuff on time or end up not paying the bills. I have the luxury, of pausing a project until I can figure out how best to address something. I've noticed some 'odd shading' on some of the quads on the Bracelet (and other simple thing), and I've been dicing up various shapes in an attempt to figure out how best to deal with the 'odd shading'.
Granted, some times when the thing is given a UV map, some of it goes away. Then IF the surface has a texture, the texture can hide some of it as well. Unfortunately some surfaces like silver or gold are mostly gloss and reflection with minimal texture, and they tend to make that odd shading stick out like a sour thumb, lol. Putting lines close to the corners can help some, by forcing the odd shading up against th edge (sometimes). I've also discovered that like triangles, quads can get iffy on flat surfaces if there extremely long and thin. Other then that, I'm still plugging away at it.
Adjusting the smoothing angle on the surfaces usually helps.
Oh, and if you're playing with Iray and switch the surface back to default make sure to reset diffuse roughness.. I was having a bear of a time the other day maing 3DL mats and it took me an hour of messing around to figure out that was why things weren't behaving like I expected.
Another odd annoyance, is with that Studio Hexagon bridge thing. If your sending stuff back and forth between hex and Studio, and for whatever reason one of them is exited, the bridge gets iffy. Hex will try to start up another copy of Studio even if you start studio yourself first, and Studio will simply stop talking to hex and will not start it up (especially if hex crashes), lol.
So here is what I have for the Bracelet so far. I have only worked on the outside of the bracelet mostly, as the inside most likely will be out of view in a render (and the poly count is starting to get up there). The gold is only some color and reflection in Daz Default, the others are my rock shader with some colors and adjustments to the settings.
I'm not 100% happy with how the reflection is distorting with the varying mesh density, however this is the forth (bottom) and fifth (top) time UV mapping from scratch after adjusting something somewhere. Base is on the left, SubD on the right. What you see is pretty much pure geometry, there is no Normal or Displacement maps at play.
OK, if you thought wandering polygons was a challenge with SubD. It looks like that is not all, as it appears the UV mapping also wanders as well.
I had taken a 2k map Headus had made, and was in MS paint tracing out some places I wanted to add some borders around the stone/glass inlays. I decided I better see if I should have the 'Neutral' gray on the poly or back one pixel to prevent tarring between the zones. I guess it will be much more challenging then that, lol
BTW, that red was a marker for myself, to let me know what squares were the inlay ones. That should be in that zone not the gold band one outside it.
Giving this a serious look into, as I don't want to spend another few hours in Headus dicing the Bracelet up, again. I've taken some simple shapes and removed some of the vertices to mimic the un even spacing on the bracelet.
I set up a simple chrome surface setting of sorts, and did a test. Angles are 45 left, 89.9 center, and 135 right.
I can see how this would be useful for many things, however not on flat surfaces (the tops of the cylinders). It also dose not exactly mend some of the more extreme mesh density areas as well. This technique may be very useful for the bracelet, tho it looks like I still need to go and mess with the mesh some more to give it a chance of looking good.
For flat surfaces set the angle between 0 and 5 or so.. 45 is still too high to work for them.
Duly noted (looking at the test render). I had the angle way to high before. Tho 5 (bottom) is a tad high, and still shows some of that bunching up near the center of the band (between thee stone inlays). an angle of 1 looks really good (top).
So it is just a matter of nailing down the wandering UV zones.