Autofit / ghost bones / transfer utility problem

vinopilot_7c7a41f47d

I've scoured the internet for a solution to a problem which seems simple to fix, but I can't seem to find a work-around.

In summary, I'm simply trying to fit a clothing item with ghost bones to a Genesis character. The Genesis character has been modified via a couple of FBM's under the "actor" section. When I add the clothing to the character, DAZ attempts to autofit the clothing item. That does work, and the clothing item fits perfectly. However, in the process, the ghost bones are removed from the clothing item and I lose a great deal of control.

So, I decided to export the autofitted clothing item as an OBJ, and then loading another copy of the clothing item into the scene without autofitting so that I could use Morphloader Pro to load the morphed OBJ into the original. This method preserves the bones. However, Morphloader will not load the new morph unless I first convert the clothing item to a weight mapped figure before running Morphloader Pro. I'm assuming that's because autofit converted the original item to triax during autofitting, and the morph isn't compatible until I also convert the non autofitted one.

However, when I convert the item to a weight mapped figure, the ghost bones lose their weight maps and no longer work properly.

I've attempted this in DAZ 4 and DAZ 4.5 with the same results.

So, my question is this: How do I get a piece of clothing with ghost bones to conform to a Genesis character without losing the integrity of the ghost bones in the clothing?

- Oh, and I've tried using the Transfer Utility as well, but the clothing item does not show up in the list unless I convert it to Triax first, which, as explained, kills the weight maps of the ghost bones.

Richard Haseltine

While that's certainly unsatisfactory (really, a converted figure should be identical to the original until the maps are edited), and I am going to make a bug report on it, I'm not sure it is entirely unexpected. DS "normalises" weight maps - it adjusts them so that the total influence on any vertex is exactly 1. It may be that it converts the bones in order, and once it has enough weights to add up to 1 it won't allow any additional sibling bones to have an effect - in my case, testing with the V4 MFD, the first handle (SkirtBase) affects the skirt pretty much as expected, the upper handles then have a little effect near the top of the skirt, where the first handle may have been weaker, and the lower handles are dead - which is consistent with giving each handle in turn as much influence as it wants, up to the limit of 1, rather than trying to share influence out. As I said, I'll make a bug report and you might want to too, but it's possible we'll be told it has to be this way (at which I would pout).

kitakoredaz

I have thought same thing ,
why "change triax figure" loose their original weight map of gohst bones perfectly.

(I mentioned about it when I try conform items for genesis,
though some guys just say again and again "you can use V4 or M4 items by auto fit and transfer utlity in ds4)

I believe daz will solve the problem.

then,

when I reform V4 or M4 items for genesis , first I check every gohst bones. and files which use gohst bones.
(some pose files or morphs use ghost bones,) how they move with parts of item.

It can help us, as you said, we can preserve "bone and bone name" by transfer utility.
so after reform item, try to apply "triax weight map" for gohst bones by CCT.

SickleYield

Won't fix that issue, but will help: you can also use transfer utility to get new ghost bones from things like this. You can also buy a cheaper dress that has handles and copy from it. Most long dresses for Genesis do, and when this is for your own use rerelease is not an issue. The Elven Dress has upper and lower handles, for instance, and the Elven Robe has upper only.

You will not find handles of the same type as V4 gowns - the skirt bender, knee bender, front, back, left, right - because weight mapping makes this somewhat impossible (it can't overlap in the same way that falloff zones can). The advantage of weight mapping is that it does deform more smoothly, and with that plus smoothing and collision it's often easier to get good poses and fits than it is with classical .cr2 falloffs.

vinopilot_7c7a41f47d

I tried the transfer utility (posted that in my edit on my first post as I had forgotten to include that). Problem is, it doesn't show up on the target list until I convert the item to a weight map, which, of course, creates the weight map problem with the ghost bones.

@Richard - You are correct. I have the same issue. It affects it just very little after converting to weight map. Too bad I have to convert to a weight mapped figure in order to add the Morph via Morph Loader Pro. What's funny is MLP reports that the Morph was loaded successfully, but I never get a slider. However, if I convert it first, I get a slider which works beautifully, but the wm conversion destroys the ghost bone weight maps.

@SickleYield - When you say "copy from it", what do you mean? This is one option I explored, but I'm unable to figure out how to copy bones and weight maps from one figure to another. I'm fairly new to DAZ and I'm still learning. Right now, the project is simply a research project I'm doing for a startup company as an alternative to traditional artist renditions of shopping malls and such, and right now I'm simply learning before guiding them in the proper direction. For them, being a startup, cost is an issue. I certainly don't want to create clothing, figures, etc as 3D modeling is not something I do for a living, so I won't be rereleasing the items. It is one of the most unusual requests I've ever had as a technology consultant.

I suppose I could redo the weight maps manually, but what a pain.

SickleYield

With transfer utility. You can copy from any item with it, not just from Genesis.

vinopilot_7c7a41f47d

Correct, and I have tried that. But, the item won't show in the target list until I convert to a weight mapped figure, which is what kills the weight maps. :(

vinopilot_7c7a41f47d

If only there was a way to copy FBMs or PBMs to the item without wm conversion... well, that would solve this particular problem. But, if I'm understanding correctly, FBM's and PBM's are tied to rigging, and therefore since the rigging is different...ain't gonna happen. :)

RCDeschene

This the reason why I can't use Nagaze Hiro 4 anymore. Draping clothing like long dresses and coats just warp... >_>