Modelling a Cathedral with ARCHITOOLS ? Advice please?
Headwax
Posts: 9,983
Gooday, I have been commissioned to make 24 images for an advent calendar. They need to feature local landmarks.
I want to model this Cathedral in Architools but I don't have a stack of time as the job needs to be done by end of next month.
So my question, those of you who are familiar with Architools, is this building doable in a few hours (say two) bearing in mind I have had the briefest play with the program.?
The brief play I had I couldnt get the uv'ees to sit right but I think it was because i didnt have the shader mode right ?? Anyone have trouble with the uvees?
I am just modelling from a corner view most probably.
There will be crenellations with the roof sticking above them. (see old pic for example of what I mean)
And there's those flying buttresses - I guess they will have to be vertex modelled?
thanks in advance - sorry I haven't been round for the challenge :(
a better view of one side is here https://www.flickr.com/photos/67307569@N00/14616184160/sizes/l/
Edit : I'm also looking for more tuts on architools - I see Eric (?) has three PDFs and three Vids on his site - but there must be more
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Comments
"The impossible we do immediately - there is a slight delay on miracles"
Wow, you have taken on one heck of a task!
Sorry, can't help with Architools - have it, but hardly touched.
cheers, mate:)
Ha ha :) Thanks Roygee, I see the brits took three hundred years on their's :). I think that the building doesn't have to be a 100 percent perfect reproduction , it just has to be recognisable as this Cathedral - and that I will have 'poetic' licence.
I'm also looking for more tuts on architools - I see Eric (?) has three PDFs and three Vids on his site - but there must be more
I'll edit the first post to include this.
cheers Roy :)
Taking that job would make even an Atheist pray!
Good luck! I wish I could help, but I don't have any experience with Architools. I do see some repeating architectural elements that could help save time, by duplicating them, but that's about all I can tell you as I'm still a VM retard.
that's a scream :) at least you do modelling, all I do is kit bash last few years!
yes the repeating elements will be a big plus, the butresses will be easy in the VM I think.
I didn't even know what an advent calendar was till they approached me .... :O
It's going to come down to how well do you understand what you're modeling and then how well you can use your tools. Most good architecture works best with floor plans and elevations. Do you have those or are you just winging it by eye?
Plans? Plans?!? He needs no steenking plans! ;-)
While it's been awhile since I've played with Architools, I really do like modeling buildings with it. That looks like a very fun project, some very nice complex architecture going on there.
Maybe someone who is absolutely expert in Architools could model that in 2 hours, but I sincerely doubt it. I'm figuring it would be more like 6 - 8 hours, for someone who is already very well versed with Architools. I do think Architools would make be much faster then modeling from absolute scratch, say in the Vertex modeling room, but I really think doing such a complex structure in 2 hours is very ambitious!
That would be to do the exterior only, if you have to do interiors too, then I'm guessing at least a couple of days to put that all together.
thanks for that advice Cris, yes, luckily I found some, well a floor plan at least
Ep - that's pretty funny because I was going to wing it :)
Yes, thanks Jon, I could model it in the VM - the simple bits at least - their is ribbing over one portico that would be a PITA maybe. There's only one round window that would appear in the image I think - but starting with a cylinder and extruding the edges to make the rest of the that wall looks better than a boolean as far as Uvees?
The finished products will be in a high profile place in town and revealed one by one, and also projected onto the side of the building.
I showed the clients some images with the protagonists (Santa etc) using shadow catcher placed on photographs - they were happy with the result but I wasn't so sure about it myself ...
The other thing I could do for the complicated walls would be just to use alpha maps on flat vertex meshes - not sure how good the quality would be...
thanks for your advice on the time too, I've done a lot of modelling in the past in anim8or but not so much in carrara
EDIT: just exterior thank fully!
from the time stamp of the original post..
the project should be finished by now .. ;-)
looksee
Good luck HW.. I did a model of a local church in my area that was demolished back in 1974.. it was 99.99 years old when it went..
Only took me 3 years to do that little one
3 years and how many hours? :) I am at work, researching :) no carrara on the work computer, which is damn lucky for my work work flow! Yes, but I will time it and see... now at 33 cents an hour plus gst times 3 years that's..... one milliion million dollars :) No wonder everyone wants to be an artist!
it would make a great mini challenge.... get everyone to model one piece each then join it all together... :-)
yes, brick by brick :) okay, time starting now, you have .... three years. Go!
The floor plans will help and you ought to be able to get a rough shape of the building with ArchiTools, but you are going to have to do a large amount of modeling to the basic building shape you get with ArchiTools in the Vertex modeler and model other things the windows, doors, and several other structures.
What is is going to come down to is how quick and good of a modeler you are i the end.
From what I can tell it may be faster to just model it all in the VM.
Out of curiosity I went and goggled the cathedral and found some other views of it and it looks like it is going take a good amount of time just to get the stained glass windows on it modeled.
The cathedral's website does have some close up images of various parts of the building and they have a PDF paper that shows repairs done to it that has some good architectural images that will help in modeling. If you can get a larger better copy of those images you'll have an easier time modeling it as a few were perspective drawings of the cathedral.
I also saw some photos of construction on the site which make it look to me that some parts of the basic building structure will be best modeled in the vertex modeler and not done at all in ArchiTools at all even though you may want to initially do them in ArchiTools to get a rough shape. The right side of the building looks like it might be easier to just model completely in the VM after looking at construction image of the cathedral.
Good luck.
I agree with Jay, it would be easier to model in VM. I have architools, but not sure it can do all the arches, pillars, cornices and etc.
I fooled around a bit in VM using some non-Boolean techniques to see if I can model in VM a gothic arch.
It's straight forward and uses mostly techniques that Hexagon has. Using the bridge tool to connect the arches keeps the quads going and the levels straight.
Of course, this was just a testing of modeling so it's not something I would put out there for final view. In my opinion, more fluting of the columns, different styles and even using the spline modeler to extrude out some of the fancier stuff like fluted columns or the start of a flying buttress that has "design" to it.
Just a contribution to the thread, could be done easier and in a billion different ways and this is just one type of gothic arch.
thanks for that advice Cris, yes, luckily I found some, well a floor plan at least
Ep - that's pretty funny because I was going to wing it :)
you can also get a good look at the roof :lol:
Flying buttresses are pretty straight forward. I just used a cube (adjusted to scale) and "Path Sweep" with a curved line follow the drawing.
Made quick work of the curved part. Keep in mind, similar amount of blocks and size must be in play.
Jay_NOLA, Design Acrobat, Wendy!!!!
Thank you so much for your input and advice.
Really appreciate the trouble you have all gone too!
:)
I did an hour with Architools yesterday and got a rough of the main body, but I can see that familiarity with the program will only come after several projects.
I think I'll take your kind advice via the VM modeller and a combination of kit bashing will do the job. Will post results if and when finished
PS: Now another question.... when I loaded up architools I seemed to be able to select more than one window hole to change sizes en masse, but later when I tried the same thing, no go? Was I hallucinating do you think?
===============================
Kit Bashing works too...
I still have plastic airplane model parts from the 1950s laying around because they were scavenged to apply to cars or trucks or some monstrosity that somehow got glued to my sister's dolls.
yes it's worth while having a sister just so you can do that! :)\
Hiya.
From the looks of it, I'd use Hexagon, maybe Blender (or another decent modeler...Carrara's VM isn't very well-rounded). You will need one or two profile curves for the detail stuff (like the 'molding/edge' detail around the edges of some of the windows), and one or two "cutter" shapes for the arched windows and such.
First, I'd block out the whole thing with just cubes. Use multiples...not one cube that you then add edges, push/pull faces, etc. and shape. If you do it that way, you will likely end up with some bad artifacts once you try using boolean's on it. Modular is good. :)
After you have it blocked out in rough form, go in and add the details. As I'm looking at the pictures, it seems there are really only maybe 4 or so "shapes" for the entire building; the edge molding, arch-windows, angled buttresses, and the roofing. Other than that, it's just flat walls. The more detail you add, and the closer you get to the end result, you can start to refine the weird little shapes and inconsistencies that will crop up.
All totaled up...I'd guesstimate about 8 hours to do (assuming no inside, of course).
Hmmmm....sounds kinda fun, actually. Maybe I'll do one up myself to see... :)
EDIT:
Ok. Here's 45 minutes of roughing out. Not much, took a bit longer than expected, but still...
At this point it's mostly sizing and shaping, making my profile curve to get the detail trim, making a "archwindow" template to use as boolean to cut in windows...and then a roof.
^_^
Paul L. Ming
pming, either something is wrong with your links, or do I have to be a member to view the images? The link takes me to a page with upload options.
You can upload screen shots directly to the forum. It will accept .png and .jpg up to 2000x2000 pixels and something like close to 10MBs in size, though I have never been anywhere near that limit.
Hey Paul!
Thanks for that detail reply, you sound like you know your way!!!
Really interested to see how you went - but I can't see anything when I click those links - :( bummer.
Eight hours, wow, !!!
The links are messed up , but if you copy and past the text between the brackets [ ] and delete the "img=" the urls work.
Hiya.
Fixed the images. :)
I did a bit more work (another 15 or 20 minutes, and basically started to work on trying to get the heights a bit more accurate. Also added the "big center tower", with the side supports. Also trying to figure out how the heck the building is put together...sure looks convoluted, almost like they had an initial plan, then just kept adding on buildings and rooms. If I continue with it I'm probably going to just have to use my imagination...but that's half the fun, right?
If I do continue, I'll update my progress...probably make a new thread when I do.
^_^
Paul L. Ming
Good start there, pming :)
Interesting project - wish I had more time to give it a go!
When floor plans are available, my favourite method is to draw a polyline on the floor plans, copy/paste and move the copy up to the required level. Join the two polylines and make a mesh using ruled surface. Cut in edges where openings are needed.
This took less than five minutes :)
I wonder if Camera Mapping might be a good approach for this? (ShaderOps2 from Digital Carvers Guild has Camera Mapping)
Works kind of like a shadow catcher, with simplified geometry, and the photo is projected onto the object from the camera's viewpoint.
Nice one Roygee
There is a thread somewhere in which Roygee explains this method with a more detailed example. Remember to add points on the ground level if the edge (bottom or top) of a window appears higher up on the wall above the same spot. That way, when you copy the line up, there are already points for the frame of the window. Same idea would apply if there was a door to a balcony higher up. Thus a window with a flat base but a pointed top (like a cathedral) might use 3 points for a window, two to define the outer edges and one in the middle for the pointy top. You could use 5 points to arch the window top slightly.
If I find the other thread, I'll link to it with an edit.
Edit: Here is the other thread in which Roygee includes a door and windows.
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/29357/P15
Thanks for that reference, diomede :)
Yep, I'm on a mission to get folk to use surfaces modelling! It is so simple and effective.
Pity Carrara doesn't include Bezier, arcs and composite curves - that would make it so much more flexible.
I've been trying to find a method of deciding on sharp corners or smooth curves - do a straight line, followed by a smooth arc, followed by a straight line, as this model calls for, in vain. It can be done with much hassle after drawing the curve, but I'd like to be able to do this off the bat, as can be done in 2D apps.
I've got a file on you, Roygee. (insert menacing laugh). It is the forum search box. :cheese: I always learn something useful when you post.
RE: architools - the same thread in which Roygee demonstrates the ruled surfaces method has some examples of buildings made in architools by Jonstark.