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I have found "constant crashes" for no other reason, to be indicating that somewhere in the model [Hexagon likes to do this] a line has become unwelded. One can work with lines and dots but as soon as a face is touched, poof. Sometimes telling it to weld everything together helps, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes, if you can get an export, wash the .obj file through D/S. Start a fresh session and import in that .obj file and carry on.
This sounds like you have made the infamous "twisted N-gon". First you need to identify which part of the model is causing the problem - start with the chimney. With that selected in the properties panel - make sure you don't even mouse over the mesh - go to the top menu Selection > Select over-4-points faces. If any faces get highlighted, go to Utilities > Triangulate n-gons.
Then go to Selection > Select non manifold edges. If any edges are selected, delete them and re-build that part of the mesh.
Try working on the model again - if it crashes, open again and work systematically through the model as above, working you way from the newest to the oldest mesh you made.
@user.operator: After using Roygee's information, I think it is bad geometry which might be hosing up things on both the first and what's created on the second floor.
@ausair: Thanks for the link, I'd seen it before but forgot about it. I have tried the suggestions within that thread, but none really solved the problem. I don't know if running Hex in XP compatibility would do any good on my 32 bit system, but if might not hurt to give it a try.
@Patience55: You could be quite right, though I think it's more of an inexperienced operator problem.
@Roygee: When I created the chimney, I made it part of the first floor. I couldn't think of another way to create the firebox separate of the lower portion of the chimney. So just selecting the chimney isn't going to work. If I select over-4-points faces Hexagon crashes. But if I select non manifold edges, several edges on both the first and second floor are selected. And they most often appear where two created walls meet. Deleting those edges removes several faces, which will have to be recreated. But how do I avoid this problem in the first place? On the first floor, front left, the wall jogs inward, forming a inset which much be closed with a portion of wall. If I set vertices to the width of other walls, bridges the faces, I believe I'll end up again with non manifold edges. The same goes for the other walls which much be recreated. Some walls are left with only 3 faces, which is going to be interesting to recreate.
That pretty much confirms what I thought may be wrong. The only way I know of fixing - apart from using Meshlab, which is pretty advanced stuff - is to export the offending mesh as .ob and, as Patience says, wash it in DSj. In this case you would have to export everything which contains the chimney. Save the .hxn file under a different name. Open DS and import the .obj and export it with different name without doing anything to it.
Open your newly-saved .hxn, delete the mesh which contains the chimney and import the newly-saved chimney .obj. Test again by selecting over-4-points faces. If it still crashes, I am afraid there is nothing else I know of which you can do to save it, other than using Meshlab.
Non-manifold edges are edges which have more than two faces attached. How to prevent them without knowing how you made them is difficult to guess :) In my example, I welded the top verts of two closed cubes. This one is easily fixed by deleting the two faces marked with an arrow.
Depending on how the the non-manifold was made, you can get away with doing this - in other cases, Hex will crash when you attempt to fix. You could try identifying which faces are surplus to requirement and deleting - may just work and save you the trouble of rebuilding the mesh.
As far as possible, you should build a complex model using as many separate meshes as you can get away with - this not only makes modelling easier, but also UV mapping and texturing.
Use those two diagnostic tools - select over-4-points faces and non-manifold edges - regularly throughout the modelling process. Hex is the only app app I've come across which has these functions, which can save you a lot of heart-break down the line :)
perhaps you should post the .hxn file, and I'll see if I can get it fixed for you. I have a few ideas on how to do it through hexagon without making it crash. I've never lost a .hxn file before even with error geometry. if I get it fixed I'll tell everyone how I did it.
but one thing to keep in mind for the future, is to make multiple versions of save files and don't overwrite them. Most of my bigger projects have at least several iterations.
I've got a system for working with tons of hexagon files in a folder. I name them all randomly typed letters when I save them, just mash the keyboard, then I sort by date from newest to oldest. If a hexagon file I need is say 40 files away, and I open it and it's one of the iterations, but not the one I want, I know that the other iterations are before or after it in the list. makes naming and finding files relatively effortless. you might open a couple wrong ones at first, but you'll at least get an idea of how close you are.
I've got well over 1500 hxn files in one folder. most are just old or small projects, but I like to keep source files just in case they're ever needed.
@Roygee: Running non manifold on the model only showed a few edges on both the 1st and 2nd floor. Deleting those removed only the involved faces, which seem easy to rebuild in most cases. I tried it with one wall and Hexagon keep it's mouth shut and continued working, so perhaps just rebuilding will work; I give rebuilding a try before anything else. I do have meshlab but wouldn't know how to use it for this particular problem; I mainly use it to reduce the poly count of an object.
I got into this pickle on the first floor, I think, by allowing the corners of the outer walls to cross when I added thickness; I created the layout using a, I believe it's called, poly line. Two inside edges of the chimney were removed, but replacing them should be a problem. I didn't run into this particular problem on the second floor because I created the outer walls as I saw in taconene's Blender tutorial. Only problem on the second floor were openings I created for transoms about a few windows. Those can be removed and replaced when creating the actual window structures. BTW, what exactly does select over 4 points faces do? I looked in the available manual but it's not mentioned; manual was apparently written before this action was added to Hexagon.
@user.operator: If I can't fix the problems I explained above to Roygee, I post the file. I'd like to try and solve this myself before asking for actual hands on fix-it help. Trying to fix the problems will make me think about how to fix them and how not to do it again.
I don't use letters to denote a different version of a file, but numbers. And sometimes sub-numbers. So for instance, I have a folder in Hexagon Saves called House. I then have files labeled victorian floor plan 1_fbr wip 14. The next time I save a file it will be 14.1 and so forth until I decide to up the count to 15. I haven't done it with this project, but sometimes I'll use 1_1_1, for an example. This tells me it's the first save, the first iteration and not finished, and lastly, I'm going to add something before moving on to the next file save.
If I make minor changes I will overwrite a file, just hit Save. Something major, like adding something or removing something, then I use Save As. I've learned by hard knocks to keep previous files in case something goes wrong down the road. I may hate having to recreate something, but having part of something created it better than starting from scratch. Especially if days were spent on creation.
I don't know if I have 1500 saved files in both my Hexagon Saves and Bryce Saves folders, but I do have folders in both of those folders which contain several iterations of the project(s) I was working on at the time. Many of which should be deleted since they aren't needed any longer.
Good to hear you're on the right track :)
A polygon with more than 4 points/edges is known as an n-gon - something to be avoided! Not that Hex has too much of a problem with that sort of geometry, as long as there are not too many of them, also depending on their configuration. After all, the cap on a cylinder is an n-gon, which causes Hex no problem. When an n-gon is non-planar, it is twisted and that causes a big problem. N-gons also cause a mess when smoothing.
Triangles can't be non-planar, so triangulating the n-gon will solve the problem of a twisted n-gon, which is what happens when you import it into DS.
The real problem with n-gons come into play in the rendering application - some of which, such as DS and Poser, don't handle them well and cause rendering artifacts.
So, always stick to quads and, when they can't be avoided, a minimal of tri's :)
I did some thinking and decided to start with the foundation, since it could be hosed also. It was, in places. It's become a real challenge to rebuild parts of the foundation to keep from creating more problems. It took several tries before the porch was squared away, now it's the right side which is presenting the challenge. Part of the challenge comes from my removing the lower portion of the chimney, which I'll redo but as a separate element after everything is squared away. It's going to be a slow process but one which won't be insurmountable.
Well, ended up rebuilding the foundation to get rid of the nasty things I created. Also had to rebuild the rear steps, Hexagon started crashing repeatedly while I was reworking them.
I decided to rebuild the rear steps using a thinned down cube, which I then C&V to create the other steps. I almost got the thickness of each step right, but ended up with the last step a bit too thick. Because it was only a fuzz to thick, I decided to thin the last step instead of thinning each of the previous steps. Comparing the last step with the three previous ones, taking the fuzz off the last step didn't preceptively change its thickness. Since I was working with individual cubes, it was an easy matter to extrude the side portion of the three bottom steps. So far, Hexagon hasn't raised any objections while I've been working on those steps. Perhaps I'm finally doing something right. ;-)
Things are progressing better than my first try at making the walls of the house. All of the first floor walls have been remade and looks much better, nothing lights up when selecting non-manifold edges. But I have a question.
After getting all of the first floor walls created, I suddenly remembered I wanted the chimney to be a separate element. Fortunately I had a save which didn't have the chimney section of walls made, and was able to separate the main chimney/fire box shape from the wall form. Because the chimney/firebox shape is above the foundation, it sets at floor level, I created a cube to use as the chimney base. Resizing the cube wasn't a problem but I would like the marry the chimney shape with the top of the cube. I tried weld, but still had two separate elements. Is there a way to marry the chimney shape with the top of the cube so they end up as one element?
Some pictures would help :)
You can weld two meshes (as opposed to point welding) even if they aren't physically touching. If you want to make the two parts of the chimney flow seamlessly, you need to have matching verts on both shapes, weld (not point weld) to make them one then either bridge, or point weld or target weld, depending on circumstances.
@Roygee: Thanks for that information. The cube used for the chimney base isn't the same shape as the actual chimney shape, but It wouldn't be too much trouble to add the necessary vertices. I'll give it some thought.
Here is an image of my progress so far, and so far the rebuild hasn't produced any non-manifold edges. So far...
That is looking very impressive - well done :)
Thank you. It's been a real learning experience.
oh my goodness! that is so amazing! great job!
Thank you magnumdaz. Glad you like the results so far.
My Gallery Page: GussNemo’s Efforts
this is also super ok!
Bye
@m_m_italy: Thank you very much.
Looking good, Guss!
That looks great Guss...I haven't played with Hexagon in a while as I've been busy learning ZBrush. I keep meaning to have a go at creating some buildings.
@Cris/Pendraia: Thank you both very much. It progresses, at a snails' pace. Hopefully all this practice will equal learning.;-)
Thought I'd give another image update of my progress so far. I finally placed the three main roofs on the house; one over the main part of the house, one over the center portion of the house, and one over the rear portion of the house. All a resized cube. Center portion roof was a piece of cake, but the other two were a bit of a struggle. Both had to be placed on angled walls. Both had to have a bevel where the two halves met, another piece of cake. But putting the two halves together was a bit of a challenge.
One side was created and placed, then a copy made and used for the other half. Challenge came in rotating the copied half to line it up with not only the other part of the roof but the walls as well. I'm used to being able to rotate something around the axis I want, without any yawing or pitching. But rotating the copied roof halves around the 'Y' axis caused yaw and pitch to occur; I've a feeling I wasn't doing something right or the easy way. But I stuck with it and as you see in the image, got them placed.
And then I realized I needed a cut out where the chimney met the main roof, again something a bit of a challenge to do. Yet that too was accomplished, as seen in the image. I've also discovered it's time to take a break when something doesn't work right and the delete key looks real tempting as a way out.
Good progress :)
A simple method to align two objects - or even get them close so you can do the final alignment manually - is to use the snap-align tool under the utilities tab. Select the tool, select a point on the object you want to move, hold shift and select a point on the other object.
@Roygee: Thanks. I do know about snap/align and have used it for some alignment. But for some reason, probably inexperience, using it to align the roofs didn't work. I know to select first the point to be moved, then the point to move to. And each time I did that, the entire model moved. I'll just have to continue trying snap/align until I finally get the hang of it.
hi GussNemo, just curious as to how this project is going, so far it is looking fantastic! I am learning Hexagon myself right now and aquired some very good info from reading through this thread so thank you :)
@Kharma: Well, it's going slow, but still going. And it's going slow because I don't really know what I'm doing, this is the first model I've tried making using Hexagon. Sometimes things go fine, other times I lose some of the hair I have left. It's on those days I find it best just to leave the model alone.
Right now I'm trying to make the front step railings. In the image below there are two railings placed, but I didn't like the look of them when compared with the other railings so I'm in the process of trying to duplicate the pattern of the porch railings. I have found it a real pain to work on an angle, since I haven't figured out how to place things accurately. I can use the settings boxes in the upper right corner, but I have to know the exact X, Y, and Z positions or end up repositioning things manually.
Kharma, I've really leaned on the settings boxes when I want to place things in an exact spot. Or, as I'm doing now with the step railings, make a rough copy of the railings, write down it's position, pull it off to the side, work on it, then enter the settings I wrote down to place the finished object back into position. Those settings boxes came in real handy in helping to create the porch railings. I decided what spacing I wanted between the rails, decided where to start, then wrote down the settings needed for each point placed. Then selected the front and back faces and bridged them to create the openings. Then each edge was chamfered and the porch rails are as you see them.
It's good to hear someone is getting use out of this thread. I never imagined my muddling through something would be of help to others.
Your project is really coming along nicely :)
Those railings are a good case in point for using "Copy on a support" or "multiple copies" with offset.
those railings are looking superb, I am not trying to make anything quite that complex, but I do find that after I have spent hours learning how to do something the hard way, I will come across a tip on how to do it the easy way....lol
@Roygee: Thanks. I've not heard of "Copy on a support," what is it? "Multiple copies" I've used often, but how with offset? Seems like every time I try and use an offset the world turns upside down in a real ugly way. I used multiple copies to make the porch and newel posts, but the porch railings had to be made separately to fit the openings. Like the roofs, the railings for the steps are the real pain, since work is done in all three axises. And I've yet figured out how to work in all three axises with ease.
@Kharma: Thank you. I know what you mean about spending hours working on something only to find a thread, or tutorial, that shows how to do it quicker and simpler.
Both these functions are under the utilities tab.
First, the copy on support. This will make a copy of something on a line (at every point), or on a mesh (in the centre of every face).
Here's a very simple example. I made steps and a upright. Extract line, the outer edge of the steps and added a point in the centre of each tread - pic 1 (hold shift while adding point to get it in the centre)
With the upright selected, select "Copy on a support", then select the line. Way too many copies - it made on for each point. Ungroup, delete the surplus uprights, group the remaining ones and move into position.
A couple of points - it will make the copy centered on the point, so it won't be in the correct vertical position. There are also various settings for orientation - see the numbers 1 to 5 in the panel - for a straightforward vertical orientation, select 1. Play with the other numbers to see what they do when you have some spare time :)
For the railing, I made a straight line by using the polyline tool, hold shift to snap it to a point on each of the uprights. I then copied an upright, rotated it, using the polyline as a guide, then in selection mode, scaled it to fit. If I'd wanted a fabcy railing, could have made a profile and sweep line.
Now for the multiple copies with offset.
For demonstration, I've added a steep slope to the steps. I want the uprights to follow the slope, so the will need to be offset in the X axis for lateral distance and the Y axis for vertical distance, I've not yet figured a formula for this, so it is down to trial and error.
I keep the number at 1 for now - first the X axis. 3 seems to be about right. Each time I enter a number, hit enter to make it take. The final commitment is not done until you hit validate.
Now the Y axis - 1.5 looks good. Now I increase the number by clicking on the tiny up arrow next to the number - it makes a copy for each click. 8 is about right. Validate.
If you have a problem placing things in 3D view, open a couple of 2D view windows - work in them and whatch what happens in your 3D view window :)
Edit -what was posted as the first pic has been placed last!