Viewport Distortion & Camera Weirdness
Mythmaker
Posts: 606
Tearing out furr....
I've been everywhere from 3DSmax to Milkshape to Cryengine and Sketchup to Zbrush and even Iclone and Daz Studio. And I'm that type who jumps into Sketchup and make stairs and arrays with no need for manuals. Gosh can't beat Carrara in crazy camera viewport behavior!!!
And yes I know conical isometric spherical perspective orthogonal rectilinear clipping plane blah blah and I'm already past the point of the Infinite Skills tutorial on Carrara save camera positions and lights. And no this random distortion issue isn't addressed.
And no, I didn't touch the 2D stuff. Strictly Dolly and W or E. Why is this madness happening??? Why does the viewport go nuts randomly when switching camera or lights? Why does the viewport randomly distort to crazy perspective zoom ratio without touching any camera or light parameter? Why - AFTER the viewport went nuts - Zoom to Selection on SELECTED Genesis Instance won't zoom to anything except random scene space ?
Why why why? What is going on?
Tearing out furr....help....!!!
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Comments
That looks freaky and I admit I've never seen this before. Hopefully someone wiser than I will answer you soon to get this straightened out.
What OS you running on? Also might be a good idea to post a screenshot of the camera settings too. I wonder if messing with the production frame might have contributed? Like I said, this is a new one to me, so I hope someone more experienced will recognize these symptoms and chime in.
I often have this problem, it is when one plays too much with the zoom.
It is enough to go in “View/ Reset 2D Pan” then” View the selection"…
I know you say you didn't do all the blah, blah stuff and know about all thingamadickies, yet your screen shots are leaving out all the important info, such as the top left side of the viewport which shows the camera and zoom level. A screen shot of the camera type and settings could also help. Seeing the production frame could also help isolate some possibilities.
You may know all about that stuff, but it doesn't mean you can't have a brain fart once in awhile and miss something obvious. I'm sure everyone that posts here would gladly admit we've all missed something or had or own brain farts on more than one occasion.
@evilproducer - I was merely narrowing down technical factors to speed up troubleshooting and definitely not flaunting street cred at you. So relax your Greatness. Hey do Carrara vendors and community a favor - be trigger happy at new arrivals to Carrara when Carrara hit 100K user base. But it's ok I forgive you...
@Jonstark - thanks so much for responding and showing patience and handsomeness to a 3 day old Carrara noob.
The viewport glitch happened with straight forward default scene plus genesis with no production frame. I did switch between Camera1 and Director cam, and cam 1 was of course at very extreme rate by the time the viewport stretched to extreme perspective. Whatever it is it wasn't a good start to Carrara, but I'm going to persevere simply because I'm a rare masochist and PhilW's tutorial is showing that Carrara is a true gem with serious UI issue that could be fixed with some awareness. Thanks again...
@DUDU-00001 - howdy and very original name. Thanks for confirming that it's a recurring existing issue and not a "Zbrush user don't know how to drive new hot sporty Carrara and whine about nothing" behavior.
You're right Reset 2D Pan is probably the way to go if this happen again. I did note that there are 3 ways of panning the viewport on the XY axis (W, E in 3D view and 2D pan). I did take care to not use the 2D pan for 3D navigation purposes. Still, I may have accidentally hit the space bar and caused the random perspective-increase. Make sense that the stretch happened in conical Camera 1 view, as Director cam and all 6 plan views are isometric, unless there are other specific Director cam behavior that is hidden.
In any case I'm going to try to replicate the issue and keep the forum posted. Thanks again for being helpful...
Relax yourself. I said we all had brain farts. I just didn't want to type all that other B.S. Pointing out the need for relevant data seemed like a good idea at the time. An experienced user may look at a screen shot with the information and help solve your issue in a single post instead of going back and forth with this idea or that idea.
Don't worry about it. I also forgive you.
The glaring fact that Carrara cameras are (1) non-universal (2) inefficient (3) unintuitive will of course, be lost to certain species. Sigh.
Thank goodness there are far more evolved and enlightened species in this zone!
Have a chirpier day! :)
:>
The glaring fact that Carrara cameras are (1) non-universal (2) inefficient (3) unintuitive will of course, be lost to certain species. Sigh.
Thank goodness there are far more evolved and enlightened species in this zone!
Have a chirpier day! :)
The glaring fact is that after three days and some time spent watching videos hardly makes you qualified to determine that Carrara's cameras are wrong. What does non-universal camera mean anyway?!? Un-intuitive? I have no trouble navigating a scene or animating cameras. Evolution is about adapting, remember? Carrara is not Z-Brush or Modo or C4D. Each one of those has their own controls, UI, etc. Going from one to another with minimal experience (despite having training videos) is still going to result in mistakes and frustration. That's where adapting comes in- Adapting to the different ways each tool and software does its job. But go ahead, continue to alienate people with far more experience, who have helped hundreds of people, just because they told you something you didn't want to hear or consider- namely that the new user may have made a mistake without knowing it, and more information is/was needed to solve the issue.
Have fun evolving.
I don't know diomede.... He looks horny and I'm just not in the mood. ;-)
LOL love it when the reactionary noob-alienator-in-chief screams rape even after being pardoned. Did anyone say Carrara camera is "wrong"? Why take criticism of a mere app so personally? And who said I'm a he? Why keep derailing impersonal topic with petty subjective personal projections and sexual insinuations? Notice all others are being civil and generous? Want to be adored? BE adorable!
@diomede64 - Here's hugging back the very adorable hugger with extra LOVE and LIGHT! :) plus plus!
Back to the topic: Carrara noob seeking advice on atypical camera and viewport behavior... Shall report if situation repeat.
I was talking about the hippo being horny, and was a joke/pun about the horns on the face and not about rape or sexual molestation. Not sure where you got that from, but whatever. It was an attempt at lightening the mood. I guess the pot needs to check its soot level before calling the kettle black in regards to assumptions. I did quote diomede after all, and not you.
And just for the record, my initial post to you was interpreted wrongly- by you. I meant no animosity, and in fact meant to mirror the slightly humorous tone of your first post (hence thingamadoohicky and brain fart references). However, as a fair warning, I don't suffer fools or eat crap either. If someone is going to act a fool, or question my motives or integrity, I won't tolerate it, or back down. Clear? Good.
You can heap coals and play the innocent all you want, but unless you edit your response to me, to hide the little dig about there being more "evolved" people here, I think we all know better.
So, to get back to your post, if you have the issue again, post screen shots that show the camera and zoom level.
I had exactly this thing happen to me yesterday. I had a camera set to "custom zoom" (30mm) giving me a high bird's-eye view of the scene. I decided I wanted to re-frame that view and switched the camera to the std 50mm preset. BOING!!! I had bits of scene shooting off in all kinds of weird distorted angles. (sorry, didn't screen grab it)
In the end I deleted the camera and added a new one, under the "life is too short" principle. The new camera was fine.
Deleting the camera and starting anew is indeed the way to go.
I believe I have replicated the steps and isolated at least one of the causes of this recurring issue.
As mentioned in the first post, Medium size default scene, Genesis loaded. Default camera 1 (at 50mm Conical). Camera showing extreme wide angle to the point of fisheye-ness.
Replicated steps:
In CONICAL CAMERA mode, PAN (P for 3D pan) around, followed immediately with ZOOM TO SELECTION (usually the character or the main object), will introduce extreme wide angle distortion of entire viewport.
The distortion becomes worse for every subsequent use of 2D tools to (Hand) Reset 2D Pan and Zoom or (Magnifying glass) Reset Zoom and 2D Pan.
As I expected, camera zoom at any level, makes no difference in causing or remedying perspective distortion, be it reset zoom to default, or lowest or highest zoom.
2D pan is not a culprit even followed by Zoom to Selection, or Reset 2D Pan and Zoom.
This happens with Camera 1 at default camera setting. Can also happen to Director Cam (settings unknown but seemingly a conical). It is reasonable to say this extreme wide-angle distortion can only happen to Conical cameras.
Changing camera: conical settings has no effect in reducing/ resetting distortion.
Resetting the post-distortion Camera 1 to Isometric, then select character/ object Instance, Zoom to Selection, will seem to restore things to normal. Soon after, Panning or Dollying around, Zoom to Selection will cease to work. It seems once Camera 1 is bugged, it remains bugged.
Workaround: Make new camera> isometric. Delete gone-nut Camera. So far, it seems isometric camera is immune to this 3DPan + Zoom to Selection issue.
Of course we can still use conical by default Camera 1 or Director Camera, or create new camera> conical, and try very hard to remember not to touch Zoom to Selection after using 3D Pan.
Regardless, until this is fixed, I shall ignore 3D Pan, and stick to Tracking in XY YZ XZ instead.
P/s if I sounded like a bug-reporting robot, that's because I've been Jira'ing too much for a sandbox game.
P/s 2, Carrara is growing on me in spite of the bugs. But yes I shall continue to press for refinement.
As I have write it higher, “Reset 2D Pan” then “view selection” works most of the time for me, but it sometimes happens to me to close Carrara then to open it again to restore this problem.
I don't believe that it is a bug, but a weakness of these features.
Is it possible that could be a hardware issue, I don't think so.
I benefit from this thread to ask DAZ if it would not be possible to be able to make a zoom (scroll with the mouse) on the direction where the cursor is, as in Poser and Photoshop.
Thanks.
Evil said : So, to get back to your post, if you have the issue again, post screen shots that show the camera and zoom level.
But that would solve the problem too quickly, and that is not want the op wants. Don't you know muffin? ;)
It may be a bit of bug, as I was trying to replicate it today and did so in the vertex modeler. I was able to get it to distort through heavy use of the trackball control and using the 2D magnifying tool to get up close and personal with individual polys and then going back to the standard zoom level of 100%. Resetting the view solved the issue and technically using the 2D view controls with a non-isometric view is not good practices, so I kind of brought it on myself.
"Zoom to Selection" is a 2D function. It does not actually move the camera. If the object selected is not at camera-center when "Zoom to Selection" is invoked, then a 2D Pan is also performed in an attempt to center the object. This causes the scene to appear distorted in the same manner as using the 2D Pan tool manually. The amount of distortion will increase the further off center the zoomed-to object is.
I find that selecting "Default Zoom and Pan" will put things back to normal.
Using "View Selection" will actually move the camera to the selection without introducing distortion.
And as evilproducer suggests, the 2D tools are best left to the isometric camera and views.
Yes, but that doesn't work each time !
Sometimes, nothing occurs when you do that…
Yes, but that doesn't work each time !
Sometimes, nothing occurs when you do that…
:question: Hmmm... I've never had that happen.
Yes, but that doesn't work each time !
Sometimes, nothing occurs when you do that…
I could only get the distorted viewport if I used 2D tools with a 3D camera, such as the magnifying glass (zoom) tool. Even then I had work at it by moving around a lot using the trackball and 2D zooming in and out. If the 2D reset doesn't work, try going back to the reference position as that resets the 2D zoom as well.
Thanks for chipping in. You're right 2D view zoom to selection should not be used as 3D view zoom to selection. Fact remains, I pity the noobs that has to digest this clear sentence alone.
The obvious is, why is
1. View Selection is not an icon while all the other 3D View tools have icon!!!
2. View Selection is not exposed nor next to 3D view tools, while 2D Zoom to Selection is. Is Carrara a 3D or 2D tool again?
2. if View Selection must get buried somewhere inconspicuous and accessed only as a shortcut, shrug, yet how is it not differentiated from verbally obviously Zoom to Selection. Why isn't it named 3D View Zoom to Selection, or 3D View to Selection? OR even more logical - 3D Zoom to Selection should be the DEFAULT Zoom to Selection, exposed, as icon next to its 3D View peers, and let 2D tools Zoom to Selection be labelled *2D* Zoom to Selection?
To keep signals clear for other Carrara noobs - in my "Replicated steps" post, I also stated clearly AFTER distortion is induced by Zoom to Selection, your proposed solution of 2D "Default Zoom and Pan" will actually worsen the distortion instead of fixing it. There could still be other causes to this issue but this is at least true in Zoom to Selection caused cases.
I also want to stress one particular inconsistent 2D tool behavior: though 2D Zoom to Selection distorts viewport when in 3D view, using 2D Pan when in 3D View doesn't distort viewport in either camera types.
DUDU's method is the only one that remedy this particular situation - as he/she said, and only *sometimes*.
DUDU also pointed out another Carrara camera quickiness in 3D view = after object is selected in scene via viewport, bounding box and all, scroll mouse zoom doesn't zoom in on the object! Dollying doesn't automatically orbit with that object as center! Not a bug, sure. Not a flaw, well okay sure. I won't call that novice tool behavior just in case some people get touchy. How bout..."proudly unconventional" and "unapologetically FRINGE? ;)
So yes, as DUDU said, it helps to standardize certain camera behaviors, and re-calibrating others.
Adding 3D Connexion mouse like Daz Studio and Hexagon has, will also help reduce new arrival disorientation not to mention advance Carrara 5 years ahead.
I could only get the distorted viewport if I used 2D tools with a 3D camera, such as the magnifying glass (zoom) tool. Even then I had work at it by moving around a lot using the trackball and 2D zooming in and out. If the 2D reset doesn't work, try going back to the reference position as that resets the 2D zoom as well.
yes you have to try very hard to get it, turning on the production pane will usually point out what has happened,
of course it's easy for people to call things 'bugs' when they have just started with software and don't understand it... (and couldnt be bothered reading the manual)
it's like accidently turning off constraints and then complaining to all and sundry that a figure looks really weird when you pull it's foot and the leg stretches out to 20 feet and then crying out about it being a bug
have great Chrissie if I dont see you ;)
mytmaker wroteth
?? That's an odd thing to say. I think you must have misread my post.
Head wax, you have misread - more like didn't read, my posts. IF you did you wouldn't have posted the cute and condescending #15. You would've noticed myself and a few others have found the true cause and never needed to post camera zoom level as demanded in the first place. You are forgiven too. I'm magnanimous that way. Cheers.
Keeping it constructive lest the topic gets derailed by inconsequential irelevancies...
RECAP for Carrara new arrivals (and Carrara veterans) who accidentally distort 3D view via *3D Pan followed by Zoom to Selection*.
You have 2 options:
- DUDU method: Reset 2D Pan, View Selection. Immediately after, Dolly around selected object. (as DUDU said, and I attest, it doesn't work 100% of the time)
- My method: Create a new camera, conical or isometric, your choice. Delete or ignore the distorted camera. Conical can be accidentally distorted, Isometric, not. Be aware that Director Camera is conical. Remember not to touch 3D Pan or Alt-RMB to pan when using Conical. To avoid this Carrara conical cam quirkiness - use Isometric camera most of the time to set up scene and modelling; Isometric view is what modelling pros use anyway. Keep Director camera and other conical cameras for rendering or setting up huge outdoor scenes.
*For new arrivals from industry standard 3D apps, or multiple/ universal/ conventional/ popular 3D app users - don't touch 3D Pan (shortcut P or Alt-on RMB) followed by Zoom to Selection, or you'll get your Field of View triggered to extreme wide angle. Zoom to Selection may sound 3D, but it is a 2D view tool, while the real 3D Zoom to Selection is somewhere very buried. If and when 3D Pan + Zoom to Selection cause your view point to go nuts (yes it's too sensitive and can't be calibrated), go to 2D Tools icons: Reset 2D Pan, then navigate up to click on menu: View: click and choose View Selection. That should return things to normal most of the time. Tedious? Stick to Isometric in Carrara.
You'll be wondering for whatever crazy reason Carrara's "re-center view to selected scene object" or what Carrara label "View Selection" is not exposed next to its 3D tool peers, while infrequently used tools/views are exposed! You're not crazy. Anyways set your own shortcut for View Selection for frequent easy access.
For multiple/ universal/ conventional/ popular 3D app users, in Carrara conical/ perspective/ wide Field of View/ non-isometric camera mode, in Assembly or Modelling mode, AND in 3D View mode, using 2D pan to pan is fine. Using Tracking XY (W) will have normal or conventional panning feel for most, my preferred method.
Pivot point is exotically labelled Hot Point in Carrara. Do not expect main selection tool left click manifesting bounding box to have your pivot point auto-centered for zooming or orbiting. That's why you will need to pan around A LOT more than usual to manually recenter for orbiting. Local Orbiting is endearingly called "Dollying" btw, a Poser dialect.
?? That's an odd thing to say. I think you must have misread my post.
I wouldn't worry about it headwax. The OP clearly only sees flippancy, snide remarks and condescension in other people's posts and not their own.
Very snidely and flippantly...I refuse to gloat at some very modest person's obvious theoretical booboo but my generosity is not perceived! Ohwell ohwell...it's a season to be jolly....
More positive signals over negative noise...!!!
Zbrush users in particular will likely set a default scene to have Camera 1 changed into Carrara's Isometric (Perspective Off). Most will use the intuitive XY pan (W) or the more isometric-ish 2D Pan (Spacebar) most of the time. Set up another Conical camera as Perspective and use with caution. Use your conical cameras only when rendering.
I also want to add a Camera improvement suggestion: allow Cameras, default or Custom Camera Views, to be exposed on Assembly room view pane. All this disorientation can be reduced or bypassed by enabling 3D Connexion. Condescendingly and flippantly so, of cos.
Thanks! :)
As the original question the OP asked seems to have been answered and as the thread seems to have run its course, we are going to lock the thread. Please remember to keep discussions civil.