Having Difficulty with Rendering more than 1 Character Model
friqenstein
Posts: 49
Greetings all,
I am fairly new to Daz3D, so I have been practicing with the platform and watching tons of videos.
A problem I have recently encountered is getting blank renderings. I spent the better part of 2 days trying to figure out why; following numerous examples from others that had a similar issue, but none of the solutions worked for me.
Before you ask:
NO - the camera is not below the floor plane
NO - the character model is not below the floor plane
NO - there is no background scenery at all
NO - my viewpoint for the render is not obstructed by anything
So, here is the scenario:
After much testing, I came to this test scenario that seems to pinpoint the issue. I start a completely new project and place 1 character model. I then start a render to ensure it is working. It is.
Next, I setup the character model how I want it to look and save the scene. There are NO environments added, nor lights, nor anything other than the character model.
Again, testing the render works fine and produces a completed rendered image.
The next step is adding a second character model. I place the new model, with no clothes or erdits whatsoever, and then test the render. Nothing. It is at this point that the render finished in about 5-7 seconds and is a blank image.
I have turned off the CPU fallback and other CPU options for rendering because that is what was suggested when Daz studio kept crashing when I was attempting to render even the simplest image.
So, it seems as though I am not able to render anything that has more than 1 character model in the scene. This is odd because I can fully render an entire scene with lighting, background, skyline, character, etc. However, as soon as I add another character model, it all goes to [pieces].
I have even tried placing two blank/generic models (no clothes, no hair, nothing) and it still will not render. This leads me to believe that it is not a hardware issue but rather something in Daz studio that is flaking out when there is more than 1 character model.
My nVidia card has the latest drivers and it is not a dud-card by any stretch of the imagination. Again, I can render a fully edited and detailed scene with 1 character, but not a blank scene with 2 blank characters.
Is there something that I am missing here? How do I create a scene with more than 1 model if I cannot ever render it?
Regards.
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Comments
What is your GPU?
I am currently at work, but I believe I am running a GeForce GTX 1060 with 6GB of vRAM."
Is this not adequate enough to render a simple blank background scene with 2 generic Gen8 character models with no clothes/hair/props?
Redacted
I will have to check this when I get home from work. I have not actually looked at the log file yet, as I spent most of my time these past two days trying different test scenarios in an attempt to find the actual "breaking point" of the scene with rendering.
As for the SubD... I am not familiar with that. At the moment, I render everything on the default settings, except for the CPU options as mentioned above. The only thing I will change occasionally is the number of iterations. Usually this is just to quicken the testing times of the render.
I would have thought it would work, yes.
Agreed, which is why I am leaning towards it being something in Daz Studio that is causing some conflict. Some setting or option that causes it to flip out when a second model is placed.
On another note, what exactly does the CPU options do in the render settings? I am assuming that CPU fallback is to allow Daz to utilize CPU processing power when the GPU is being overworked? If this is the case, why does it cause my entire system to feeze up when I attempt to use the CPU rendering options? Is this a known issue?
Or, is it simply a case of, the system appears to be frozen, but is still working... you just cannot move the mouse cursor or anything at all. I have not attempted to let it sit over night to see if it becomes "unstuck", because I don't want Daz to melt my computer.
Redacted
CPU fallback will allow the rendering to continue on CPU if the scene is too big for the GPU to process. Rendering on CPU will be 10-20 times slower than on GPU but unless the system has other problems, it will still render the scene.
You didn't mention how much RAM you have on you computer. Even when the GPU does perform the rendering, you should have double the amount of VRAM in RAM and if the rendering drops to CPU the RAM requirement gets bigger.
If you also run out of RAM, windows starts using your HD/SSD as an extension of RAM and everything gets even slower (forget about doing anything else) and by reading the messages that have been posted here, I'm inclined to come to a conclusion that, that is when DS starts having problems as well.
The first thing is to make sure, you are not running any other programs while working with DS, especially any browsers.
I have 64GB of RAM in my system and a 1TB SSD drive.
I do have a browser open when designing scenes, as I am constantly looking at content and reading examples/tutorials. I don't generally watch any videos while a render is happening. Usually, I will start the render, watch it for the first 30-45 seconds to ensure it is functioning, then walk away for a smoke or play witht he dogs while the render does its thing.
Also, I am still operating on Windows 8.1, which I absolutely loathe, but it is what I have at the moment.
Still, having said all of that, I find it difficult to believe that 2 completely blank character models would cause a render to fail, as the only textures being loaded/processed are the default skin textures of the Gen8 models.
I will have to do some more testing once I get home, in regard to the suggestions above.
One other thing I should note is, while in Daz studio, I can activate the iRay view in the scene and it will generate the real-time low-res render, though some features do not fully display, such as hair. But, the 2 character models will definintely show up in the iRay preview, just not the attempted full render.
turn CPU fallback back on and if it renders then you know that the scene is too much for the GPU. 6 gigs can get used up very quickly.
Okay, I was thinking of trying this.However, I don't want Daz to melt my system where it sits. When I use CPU fallback, the entire system locks up; I cannot even move the mouse. This freeze usually happens about 1% into the render. I have not experiemented with how much the CPU fallback can handle prior to freezing.
So, when the system is frozen in time like that, do I just assume it is still working and let it run for a while? Because not even the status bar updates when this happens, so I automatically assume my entire system is frozen and non-functional. I does not respond to the 3-finger salute either.
Windows 8.1 could be one reason as it's an in-between version that didn't really take off, what version of Nvidia drivers are you using?
I remember a few months back that the Nvidia driver selection for Windows 8 was quite poor when compared to even Windows 7 that I'm using.
You have plenty of RAM and even though the VRAM is about the minimum, it shouldn't be a problem with two G8 base figures.
I have the latest "game ready" drivers from nVidia as of last week when I updated them. Not certain which version it is, as I am currently at work.
Help->Troubleshooting->View Log File.
When you have the file open, pin it to Windows task bar, so that you have a quick and accessible way to open it - if the log updates in between opening the log a few times, the process is still running.
Thank you for that helpful tip. I will definitely try it.
It may help to use the nvidia studio drivers rather than the game ready drivers. They tend to be more stable and most of the newest bleeding edge additions to the game ready drivers aren't relevant to Daz work anyway.
Interesting to know. Thank you for the information. I may try it this evening, if I have the opportunity.
in my experuience, if this happens no matter what mode it's in, the scene is too resource intensive. I have a 2080ti and have had scenes fall back to CPU and it never frooze my computer, it just took longer to render.
Just checked, there are no studio drivers for W8.1. The drivers are actually the same as they have for W7.
As far as the drivers are concerned, you may want to try some older ones. The minimum driver version is 451.48.
To help with the "locking up", you could try limiting the number of threads DS is allowed to use, it's in the same place where you can enable/disable CPU fallback, see the pic.
Update0001:
Just got home, so checked my driver version first: 466.63. Ran a check for updates and it found 466.77, which I am installing right now. I want to see if it makes any difference before attempting the other suggestions...
Update0010:
After the driver update, I started a fresh session, and turned the render max samples down to 1k for quicker test render results.
- Placed one generic G8F in the scene and it rendered fine.
- Placed second generic G8F in the same scene, moved her so both were visible, and it rendered fine.
- Started a fresh session, new scene (did nto save the first test)
- Placed one prebuilt character model in the scene; rendered fine.
- Placed second prebuilt character model (same model) in the scene; rendered fine.
- Added a few features to each model (eyeshadow, lipstick, eyebrows, nail polish; rendered fine.
--- At this point, I saved the scene for a known working scene to fall back on.
- Added hair to both models, same hair style; did not render, after 5 seconds, it "finished" with the typical two-tone greybox background.
- I deleted the hair from both models; did not render.
- I closed Daz studio, restarted the program, and loaded the saved backup of the previous sucessful attempt; it failed to render, same results as above.
So, this is kind of strange. It resemebles some of the issues I have read by other's that have had similar problems, but they never mentioned having multiple models or not. I do not know if the hair model I used somehow glitched the scene, but that does not make sense because I did not save it after the first failed render. Theoretically, loading the known backup working copy of the scene should result in successful rendering as was done in the beginning. I did not change any settings from start to finish, aside from the max samples mentioned above. It remained at 1k for the entire test period.
I will try an entirely new test scenario again and see if I can duplicate the results, or try different hair.
If Iray drops out due to running out of memory then you will usually need to restart DS before it will do anything even with the simplest of scenes.
Redacted
As long as DS is not crashing, the log is the best source of information regarding any problem
Update:
So, I was not able to test much past the last update from last night, as I had other things I had to get done. However, I did run a few short tests.
Using the same pregenerated character models, I fully edited them, clothes, features, poses, etc. and then attempted to render; it was blank.
I then enabled the CPU fallback, and the option to detect the CPU as a device for usage (can't remember what it's called at the moment); it started rendering perfectly fine. I lowered the thread limint count from 12 to 9 and it got all the way up to 92% before freezing the system. I left it sitting over night to see if it was just running slow, but alas, it was completely frozen and the render never got past 92%. I did not have time to check the log file this morning before leaving for work, so I will check that first thing when I get home.
I also have not yet tried the SubD suggestions, as I was reading up on them to learn about them and where they are, and how to adjust them. I will attempt this once I get home as well.
I was almost happy :(
Redacted
Awesome, thank you for that brief set of instructions. I will try this first thing, after checking the logs, when I get home.
Update:
Hello all,
Okay, I have adjusted the SubD for the character model from 2 down to 1, but the system still completely froze while attempting to run in CPU enable for rendering. I have since disabled the CPU options for rendering, again, and it appears as though now I can actually sucessfully generate a render with at least 2 character models, including the original prebuld model that was in question. I also wa able to render two models with the hair textures that were also in question. Some of these assets that I am using are generated at a SubD of 2 to 3, which may have also been part of the issue. However, since I have lowered the SubD of the character model, it seems to be working.
Having said that, once I made all edits/adjustments/addons to the model, I selected the model and set the SubD to 1, but some of the assets attached to the model were still at 2 or 3. Not a huge issue, but I'll have to delve a bit deeper into that part later on.
I am going to consider this resolved, for now, as I am somewhat able to move forward with these renders.
I really appreciate all of the constructive help on this issue. It is great to see a community of very helpful individuals that are knowledgeable and willing/able to assist others.
Also, thank you for putting up with my newness and getting around these obstacles.
I look forward to future conversations with this community.
Regards,
~me
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