Lost and Found growing! Is that right?

AndrewJJPAndrewJJP Posts: 711

I'm getting more and more content in Lost and Found. I think these are items that lack metadata (?) so I tried an update, and some were fixed, but it left plenty behind.

I read in other posts that this tends to happen with old stuff. That's not the case here. True, there's some G3, but it's mostly G8 and a few 8.1, including things that are still advertised as new.

If I counted correctly there are still 34 including...

Which is a new product.

Is this supposed to happen?

How hard is it to correct the metadata when this happens? With so many items, even if I could do one every 5 of minutes, it would take hours. And given the complexity of the dialog that appears when you select "Edit Metadata", 5 minuites feels somewhat optimistic...

Sorry if these are silly questions, but I have focussed on the fun side of Daz and updating the metadata database doesn't go in the fun side laugh

Thanks everyone!

 

Post edited by AndrewJJP on
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Comments

  • You should be able to categorise by right-click menu, that is all that is needed as a fix.

  • Richard Haseltine said:

    You should be able to categorise by right-click menu, that is all that is needed as a fix.

    Thanks Richard! That sounds easy!

  • Sorry, is that from the pop-up? I dont' seem to have a menu item to do it. (Please feel free to point me to the relevant docs).

    I get...

    • More Information..
    • Explore...
    • Edit Metadata...
    • Update Metadata...
    • Export Metadata...
    • Uninstall...
    • Group Product As (New / None)
    • Group Product & Assets As (New / None)
    • Browse to Folder Location
    • Show Product in Content Library

    I'm sure I'm looking in the wrong place!

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244
    It is not supposed to happen with new content. Users should not each have to fix it themselves. The fact that Daz Studio allows users to fix Lost and Found by categorizing assets themselves is a great feature, though. You should submit a help request about the products with assets in Lost and Found. Be specific about what products have the problem. I like to attach screenshots of the Products' Smart Content Files tab showing what assets are in Lost and Found. Occasionally, Daz customer support/QA will fix the metadata and release an update. The effort you make to report the errors to trigger Daz to fix the metadata, will be greatly appreciated by the other owners of the product who get an update because of your effort.
  • AndrewJJPAndrewJJP Posts: 711
    edited February 2022

    barbult said:

    It is not supposed to happen with new content. Users should not each have to fix it themselves. The fact that Daz Studio allows users to fix Lost and Found by categorizing assets themselves is a great feature, though. You should submit a help request about the products with assets in Lost and Found. Be specific about what products have the problem. I like to attach screenshots of the Products' Smart Content Files tab showing what assets are in Lost and Found. Occasionally, Daz customer support/QA will fix the metadata and release an update. The effort you make to report the errors to trigger Daz to fix the metadata, will be greatly appreciated by the other owners of the product who get an update because of your effort.

    Thanks, I'll do that tomorrow. Given how much there is, I think it would be screenshots too. I get the feeling that when you say they occasionally fix it, they often don't, although I am sure they will want to fix things that are new at least. There also some OOT hair in there which is very popular (with me anyway!)

    Post edited by AndrewJJP on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244
    edited February 2022

    It goes in spurts. Sometimes they fix metadata in a timely manner, and other times I've been told by customer service that they are too busy "fixing things that don't work at all" to spend time on metadata. Some of my reports are fixed and others are ignored for years. The quality of the metadata initially released with new products also seems to go in spurts. I sometimes wonder if they have new inexperienced employees or interns or bots creating metadata at times. Lately there seems to be problems with scene identification metadata that prevents compatible assets from showing in Smart Content. It is pretty clear that they are not testing the metadata well or at all before release.

    Post edited by barbult on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244
    edited February 2022

    AndrewJJP said:

    Sorry, is that from the pop-up? I dont' seem to have a menu item to do it. (Please feel free to point me to the relevant docs).

    I get...

    • More Information..
    • Explore...
    • Edit Metadata...
    • Update Metadata...
    • Export Metadata...
    • Uninstall...
    • Group Product As (New / None)
    • Group Product & Assets As (New / None)
    • Browse to Folder Location
    • Show Product in Content Library

    I'm sure I'm looking in the wrong place!

    In Daz Studio, there is usually more than one way to do things. Here is one:

    In the Smart Content pane, select the Files tab. Select The Lost and Found Category Select an asset. Right click on the asset and select Categorize from the dialog that pops up.

    Right Click Categorize.jpg
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    Post edited by barbult on
  • AndrewJJPAndrewJJP Posts: 711
    edited February 2022

    Interesting. Certainly there's stuff not working for me and it sounds like probably everyone. I shall see what happens tomorrow! I'm sure they won't fix all of them...

    it is actually 79. 34 is the number that contain "8" in the title. (I didn't notice the filter was active)

    I was thinking of getting the metadata course when it's cheap, but that was for adding it to content from other sites rather than fixing things smiley

    Post edited by AndrewJJP on
  • barbult said:

    AndrewJJP said:

    Sorry, is that from the pop-up? I dont' seem to have a menu item to do it. (Please feel free to point me to the relevant docs).

    I get...

    • More Information..
    • Explore...
    • Edit Metadata...
    • Update Metadata...
    • Export Metadata...
    • Uninstall...
    • Group Product As (New / None)
    • Group Product & Assets As (New / None)
    • Browse to Folder Location
    • Show Product in Content Library

    I'm sure I'm looking in the wrong place!

    In Daz Studio, there is usually more than one way to do things. Here is one:

    In the Smart Content pane, select the Files tab. Select The Lost and Found Category Select an asset. Right click on the asset and select Categorize from the dialog that pops up.


     

    Thanks very much! Very, very helpful!

    If it's 79 products, I wonder how many files? PC is off now (it's 23;40 here) so I can't check. I might need to focus on what I care about but support can have all of it!

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244
    edited February 2022

    Hmmm that really seems excessive. Before you take too much time to write help requests, try reimporting metadata through the Content DB Maintenance selection in the Content Library "hamburger" menu. See if that resolves some of your issues.

    Post edited by barbult on
  • barbult said:

    Hmmm that really seems excessive. Before you take too much time to write help requests, try reimporting metadata through the Content DB Maintenance selection in the Content Library "hamburger" menu. See if that resolves some of your issues.

    Unfortunately, that has increased it to 82 products and I counted 661 files, so there's no way I could fix all those myself.

    I think I'm going to have to contact support, but it sounds like more from the perspective of "my metadata is broken" than "this product needs to be fixed", so thanks for clarifying that this is not expected.

  • cridgitcridgit Posts: 1,757
    edited May 2022

    Redacted

    Post edited by cridgit on
  • cridgit said:

    I reinstalled my entire library from scratch a few days ago (due to a drive crash) and of my >5000 products 792 have assets in Lost and Found.

    Elsewhere is has been said this can be expected for older products but this even happens for new releases.

    I'm composing a song at the moment "There's something wrong at DAZ ... and nobody seems to notice". It was about metadata but I'll have to add the NFTs and the forum to the refrain now too.

    Ah, well that's very interesting to know it's not just me that has a large number. I think I have about 1,200 products, so proportionally, that's not so very far off.

    What a wonderful idea for a song! laugh 

  • AndrewJJPAndrewJJP Posts: 711
    edited February 2022

    cridgit said:

    I reinstalled my entire library from scratch a few days ago (due to a drive crash) and of my >5000 products 792 have assets in Lost and Found.

    Elsewhere is has been said this can be expected for older products but this even happens for new releases.

    I'm composing a song at the moment "There's something wrong at DAZ ... and nobody seems to notice". It was about metadata but I'll have to add the NFTs and the forum to the refrain now too.

    Ah, well that's very interesting to know it's not just me that has a large number. I think I have about 1,200 products, so proportionally, that's not so very far off, or same order of magnitude anyway (though I think you're actually worse off). I'd say about half mine are G8, but there a fair number of 8.1 and I've noticed at least 2 that still have "New" in the store page.

    What a wonderful idea for a song! laugh 

    Post edited by AndrewJJP on
  • NorthOf45NorthOf45 Posts: 5,489

    Lost and Found category is for assets that have eluded the metadata in some way:

    1. Asset not included in Product.

    2. Asset path or filename incorrect.

    3. No default category defined for the asset.

    4. Category explicitly set to "Lost and Found" (yes, it happens, but rarely)

    Products with no included metadata (i.e., Poser products, and pretty much anything before Genesis) get something generated by DIM (and DAZ Central?) that at least defines the product and all included assets, but no product thumbnail, no categories and no compatibilities (or anything else, for that matter).

    1 & 2 will also result in the assets ending up in product LOCAL USER, since they have been orphaned from the real product to which they should belong.

  • AndrewJJPAndrewJJP Posts: 711
    edited February 2022

    NorthOf45 said:

    Lost and Found category is for assets that have eluded the metadata in some way:

    1. Asset not included in Product.

    2. Asset path or filename incorrect.

    3. No default category defined for the asset.

    4. Category explicitly set to "Lost and Found" (yes, it happens, but rarely)

    Products with no included metadata (i.e., Poser products, and pretty much anything before Genesis) get something generated by DIM (and DAZ Central?) that at least defines the product and all included assets, but no product thumbnail, no categories and no compatibilities (or anything else, for that matter).

    1 & 2 will also result in the assets ending up in product LOCAL USER, since they have been orphaned from the real product to which they should belong.

    Thank you!

    Looking at my lost and found products, I think they fall into a few categories and how to fix them is not always entirely obvious.

    1. There are products with the odd thing that's not important. That's probably about half. For example, Some products have a script that opens the artist's store, and that's the only issue. I don't care about that!
    2. Others have the odd thing that's wrong. This... Iray WetFX 2 | Daz 3D ... was released only a few weeks ago, and the G8 Male shell is in there (quite important if you use G8 male!) and something called "Top coat yellow" which Daz tells me (see below) is a shader.
    3. Others have lots of stuff missing. Neko Hair for Genesis 3 and 8 Female(s) | Daz 3D has lots of materials missing. I think they are iRay materials on the basis that they are Hairblending overlays, but in other cases, it's less obvious.
    4. Others don't show any files at all, for example, Genesis 3 starter essentials, so I have nothing to fix. Perhaps this is an example of a missing asset?

    So for the two products I linked, or indeed the G3, I'm curious as to whether anyone else that has them sees the same as I do? I'm on Daz 4.1.5 rather than the latest for reasons that I might moan about elsewhere one day, so I suppose that could be a factor?

    And one thing that puzzles me. That flash at the top that says "Material" was added by Daz. I know that because I checked the PNGs and they do not say "Material" on them. So Daz knows it's added that to the icon, then it knows it's a material somehow. In that case, why did it not put it in the materials? (I don't expect anyone to answer that, it's more a rhetorical question, but if anyone does know, that would be interesting.)

     

     

    Screenshot 2022-02-08 190324.jpg
    1165 x 1051 - 319K
    Post edited by AndrewJJP on
  • NorthOf45NorthOf45 Posts: 5,489

    For the products mentioned in 2 and 3, I don't have either, so can't really say.

    As for the Genesis 3 Essentials, I do remember having problems with the presentation when updating the products. Try uninstalling, and re-installing. If it is still hiding, re-import the metadata. If it is still hiding yet, go to the Product view in the Content library (under G) and delete the product. Re-install... (My Genesis 3 Male and Female Starter Essentials are both in the same product listing, whichever was installed last; never could get them separated).

  • NorthOf45 said:

    For the products mentioned in 2 and 3, I don't have either, so can't really say.

    As for the Genesis 3 Essentials, I do remember having problems with the presentation when updating the products. Try uninstalling, and re-installing. If it is still hiding, re-import the metadata. If it is still hiding yet, go to the Product view in the Content library (under G) and delete the product. Re-install... (My Genesis 3 Male and Female Starter Essentials are both in the same product listing, whichever was installed last; never could get them separated).

    Thanks, I will give that a try. I don't ever use G3 now, but it would be nice to get this cleaned up so that when new things go in there, it'll be easy to spot them!

  • NorthOf45NorthOf45 Posts: 5,489

    The file type (when saved as an asset) determines how it will function when it is loaded. Scenes, scene-subsets, material presets, character presets, etc., are all a function of how it was saved. The files themselves contain no metadata of any kind. It is produced by DAZ to enhance the user experience by adding more information about default categories, compatibility, and those coloured flashes in the upper right corner that identify the content type. The metadata is contained in a separate file that is installed with the product in the Runtime/Support folder.

  • NorthOf45 said:

    The file type (when saved as an asset) determines how it will function when it is loaded. Scenes, scene-subsets, material presets, character presets, etc., are all a function of how it was saved. The files themselves contain no metadata of any kind. It is produced by DAZ to enhance the user experience by adding more information about default categories, compatibility, and those coloured flashes in the upper right corner that identify the content type. The metadata is contained in a separate file that is installed with the product in the Runtime/Support folder.

    Sorry, my fault. I think we might be talking slightly at cross purposes. I was taking "metadata" in the more general sense of "data that describes data" rather than the more precise (and relevant!) Daz sense. (Sorry, it in with my day job - I need to learn to separate the two...)

    What feels wrong to me is that I have to go and say that all the Neko hair Hairblending Materials are Materials when there is something in the file that says "this data describes a material". If Daz can display that flash, it can put it in with the materials. That doesn't seem too much to ask. But I maybe missing something...

    Anyway, I have told support that I think this sounds normal, and offered to tell them the problems I'm seeing if they assure me that someone will correct at least some of them. Because that will take me a while to do, and I'm not going to waste time on it if nothing happens!

     

  • I just purchased a product that went straight to Lost and Found. It's got over 300+ files associated with it (it's a complex environment), I really don't want to have to sort that myself. Hopefully a support ticket will get things straightened out.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,941

    geekydad123 said:

    I just purchased a product that went straight to Lost and Found. It's got over 300+ files associated with it (it's a complex environment), I really don't want to have to sort that myself. Hopefully a support ticket will get things straightened out.

    If it is part of a bulk transfer from Renderosity then it probably won't get official metadata - but if someone, using the default install locations, created metadata for it that could be shared.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244

    Richard Haseltine said:

    geekydad123 said:

    I just purchased a product that went straight to Lost and Found. It's got over 300+ files associated with it (it's a complex environment), I really don't want to have to sort that myself. Hopefully a support ticket will get things straightened out.

    If it is part of a bulk transfer from Renderosity then it probably won't get official metadata - but if someone, using the default install locations, created metadata for it that could be shared.

    Users are probably not eager to do Daz's work for them for free. Even packaging up the metadata for sharing after creating it takes time. That is followed by the requests for help because people don't know how to install it, or they don't know how to import it, or they don't have their product installed in the same hierarchy, or... I volunteer you, if you are interested.wink

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,984
    edited October 20

    @barbult  Well said !

    @geekydad123 Name the product... or optionally, installl the product with Content Wizard or just by using the function in DS > Create a Product from...

    Post edited by crosswind on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,941

    barbult said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    geekydad123 said:

    I just purchased a product that went straight to Lost and Found. It's got over 300+ files associated with it (it's a complex environment), I really don't want to have to sort that myself. Hopefully a support ticket will get things straightened out.

    If it is part of a bulk transfer from Renderosity then it probably won't get official metadata - but if someone, using the default install locations, created metadata for it that could be shared.

    Users are probably not eager to do Daz's work for them for free. Even packaging up the metadata for sharing after creating it takes time. That is followed by the requests for help because people don't know how to install it, or they don't know how to import it, or they don't have their product installed in the same hierarchy, or... I volunteer you, if you are interested.wink

    I don't have all, or most, of the trasnfers but I do have some (mostly Lully outfits) and it is my intention to do and share metadata for those. When is another matter.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244

    Richard Haseltine said:

    barbult said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    geekydad123 said:

    I just purchased a product that went straight to Lost and Found. It's got over 300+ files associated with it (it's a complex environment), I really don't want to have to sort that myself. Hopefully a support ticket will get things straightened out.

    If it is part of a bulk transfer from Renderosity then it probably won't get official metadata - but if someone, using the default install locations, created metadata for it that could be shared.

    Users are probably not eager to do Daz's work for them for free. Even packaging up the metadata for sharing after creating it takes time. That is followed by the requests for help because people don't know how to install it, or they don't know how to import it, or they don't have their product installed in the same hierarchy, or... I volunteer you, if you are interested.wink

    I don't have all, or most, of the trasnfers but I do have some (mostly Lully outfits) and it is my intention to do and share metadata for those. When is another matter.

    I only bought a couple items, to discount other things. When I saw that there was no metadata, I quit buying them. One of the first things I bought was a Lully outfit. Creating metadata for that was a huge job and pretty confusing. That effort was what soured me on these transferred products without metadata. They dilute the value of shopping in the Daz Store. Metadata had been a discriminator, but we can't count on it anymore. We can't even count on getting a readme or proper listing of required products. High SKU numbers no longer mean recent products; they could just as well be old stuff brought over, with old tech and materials. Shopping has now become "buyer beware" in the Daz store, sadly.

  • LullyLully Posts: 25
    edited October 21

    Hi Lully here
    I'm sorry this is a problem. :(
    I attempted to do the metadata for my old items, but due to the size of each pack (which have a large number of duf files) it would have been a ridiculously massive task.
    My more recent DAZ only store items (from my sconces pack onwards ) all should have metadata files as they have gone through the same process as any other vendor selling here.
    Over time, this shouldn't be a problem as the older stuff will eventually fade into the background. 

    Post edited by Lully on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244

    Lully said:

    Hi Lully here
    I'm sorry this is a problem. :(
    I attempted to do the metadata for my old items, but due to the size of each pack (which have a large number of duf files) it would have been a ridiculously massive task.
    My more recent DAZ only store items (from my sconces pack onwards ) all should have metadata files as they have gone through the same process as any other vendor selling here.
    Over time, this shouldn't be a problem as the older stuff will eventually fade into the background. 

    Thanks for joining the discussion.The lack of metadata is not your fault. Metadata is the responsibility of Daz. not the PA. I don't place any blame on you or the other vendors for this situation.

  • memcneil70memcneil70 Posts: 4,115

    While I am limiting my purchases of the transferred items from Rendo, I accept that the ones I buy will entail my adding metadata to them, just as the ones from RuntimeDNA did. On the positive side, it makes me really learn the contents of the products. I only get frustrated with complex packages that have shaders labled as materials, lights, and of course dForce and simulation items that don't quite match the older Smart Content categories.

    Sets are easy, it is the accessories, lighting, shaders, and clothing that often takes hours per product. The PAs pack a lot into them, and why I would buy from them at Rendo.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,941
    edited October 22

    memcneil70 said:

    While I am limiting my purchases of the transferred items from Rendo, I accept that the ones I buy will entail my adding metadata to them, just as the ones from RuntimeDNA did. On the positive side, it makes me really learn the contents of the products. I only get frustrated with complex packages that have shaders labled as materials, lights, and of course dForce and simulation items that don't quite match the older Smart Content categories.

    Sets are easy, it is the accessories, lighting, shaders, and clothing that often takes hours per product. The PAs pack a lot into them, and why I would buy from them at Rendo.

    I'm pretty sure the Lully sets I did (ones I purchased from Renderosity) didn't take that long, more like ten minutes (possibly  twice if I forgot a step due to rustiness). Don't forget that one you have created the product you can use the right-click Edit Metadata option in a folder of items to simplify, for example, setting the content ttype on Iray or 3delight materials without having to try to select them individiually in the editing window. Also, compatibility and type can be handled by drag-and-drop to Smart Content with the base item selected in the scene. Those can save a lot of fiddling with long lists. I would also suggest installing the product to its own content directory, so files are easier to find initially, and then move it/reinstall it to the real content directory later - the CMS stores only relative paths, where possible.

    Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
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