Sculpting Your Own Character?
marble
Posts: 7,500
I keep telling myself that it time to move beyond just sliding morph parameters to make my own characters and perhaps send a G8 to Blender or some other sculpting application - I don't have ZBrush but have Blender and there's also Meshmolder which is either free of low cost for the "Pro" version. I just don't know what's involved though. For example, can I export a G8 and retain all the JCMs and rigging and, if so, what are the limitations (what if I want to make a much taller or shorter character, for example. Or what If I want to add detail where the base G8 has such a low poly count - Geometry grafts or normal maps perhaps?).
So assuming I can't do those things, what do I lose if I just export an OBJ file and then use the transfer utility (or whatever the process might be) to restore the rigging, etc? Is it possible to restore the JCMs, FBMs and such like? Is there a tutorial (and I don't have $100 to spend on one so free would be ideal)?
I am itching to sculpt but how difficult are the technicalities beyond just making a new shape? I tried to dial-in a baby character recently for a family scene and it just turned out awful. I could buy the DAZ babies but they already look so ugly to start with (I think the creator must have used a Shar Pei puppy as a reference).
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Comments
I have done quite a few morphs in Blender (2.79), using just the basic tools (Translate, Rotate, Scale, Shrink/Fatten, Push/Pull), with the X Mirror and Topology Mirror checked (in options), you only need to morph one side of the mesh and the other side will follow automatically. The proportional editing mode (donut icon) extends the affected area beyond the vertices you have selected and in 2.79 and older, you can use the scroll wheel to change the size of the area while performing the action.
The tool I use the most is Shrink/Fatten.
They changed the interface in later versions, and I still haven't found the same functionality in them, like adjusting the affected area with the scroll wheel while performing the action, so I still use 2.79
From my experience, it is not a good idea to change the height of the figure in Blender
Exactly why I was asking ... I believe that I have read that the rigging needs to be adjusted whenever the height is changed. As far as I know, that must be done in DAZ Studio because it can't import rigs. The complication that I assume is that it doesn't stop with changing rigging - I guess that JCMs and weight maps etc. need to be adjusted or re-done. All of which I know nothing about.
If you make a morph you must only adjust the "rigging" (only if changing a body part lenght: even an arm). This is done by the commands "ADJUST RIGGING TO SHAPE" and "ERC FREEZE"
With morphs JCM and weightmap are the self.. so you already have them active with your G8 and you don't need to fix them.
With transfer utility you can copy rigs, weightmaps and even morphs between 2 figures: so you have JCM even in a new figure.
I don't understand what you want do: a morph or a new figue ? If a morph you need only morph loader pro, a new figure even using Transfer Utility you could need manual adjustment.
Thanks - you have answered some questions there already.
I haven't tried anything yet so I'm just trying to find out what is possible. I would like to send a G8 figure to Blender and make my own shape. That might be a small or larger character so the rigging might need adjusting. I don't know whether it is better to send an OBJ or FBX or whatever.
@marble
I usually use OBJ... FBX is rigged and texturized while OBJ is only geometry (more easy to edit)
Don't forget to export from DAZ at base resolution and to not include the eyebrows. Also don't add or subtract any vertices while in Blender or it won't work as a morph. Make sure you've got the Keep Vertex Order box checked whenever it's an option. It's not a bad idea to export your unchanged model from Blender before you start sculpting to make sure you've got all the scaling and vertex order prefences correct before you spand a bunch of time sculpting.
I do edits in Blender all the time, it's really easy and after doing a few you will be exporting and importing them back into Daz in minutes. Sometimes this is way faster to get what you want when you don't know exactly what morph you need. the only downside is no HD.
I often start by adding head morphs and face tweaks to my character in Daz to get it started. Maybe rescale the eyes (and eyes and lips are the biggest tricky parts I'll get to later) and chin and what not. This way when I do take it into Blender it's already started, and when I bring it back out, I'm going to load a new base G8/G8.1 and those features will be included without needing to worry about the morphs sliders for them again.
The Eyes, you'll want to hide the eyes in edit mode if you plan on doing ANY work where the eyes get shifted in scultp mode. When you are done scultiping you will want to unhide the eyes in edit mode again and reposition them. You may also want to hide the mouth and teeth depending on how much you are doing around those areas.
DO NOT USE smoothing or any vertex altering features of sculpt mode. Dyno is right out.
If you NEED to use masking and really ONLY if you have GOOD REASON to you have to be really careful not to edit too close to the mask transition areas or do very minor tweaks there.
Be really careful around the inner lip area especially the corners. Moving them around broadly is ok looking head on, but in profile directions it can cause for some ugly emotions applied later.
If you shrinkwrap you'll need to use vertex groups and do a lot of careful fine alignments and most likely have to remove from the shrink the verts inside the nose, the mouth and eyes. I have a video that covers some of that. I need to make a new video that covers stuff like how to bring Daz character into blender properly to selective hide areas like the eyes and mouth as a group before sculpting. I'll try and do that tomorrow.
And lastly don't forget to use symetry feature "X", unless you don't want symetry.
Yes, I do make morphs often but I was thinking of trying something a little more adventurous - which might be more than a morph and might require adding or deleting vertices.
I'll look forward to your video.
Your adventure might end abruptly since adding/deleting vertices would break vert order.
Which is exactly what my original post was asking about. I know that you can't add or delete vertices and I'm always careful to avoid that when I make morphs but, as I said, I wondered what was involved in going that step further and not be limited by the base polygons. That's why I was asking about rigging and the transfer utulity, etc.
Btw, Deepsea did a pretty nice baby. https://www.daz3d.com/deepsea-baby-hd-for-genesis-81-male
A new figure will need:
You can look at this link the Apollo Maximum figure: a custom figure made by some users.
I also suggest you to look at:
https://youtu.be/OuDkr19PJYU
https://youtu.be/rFfAZjuDBQE
or even buy this: https://www.daz3d.com/how-to-create-a-new-daz-studio-custom-creature
PS Transfer Utility works well in surface without details or with a low joint number, when you have high vertices number in a small area or very near joints (mouth, teeth, eyes) it works very bad.
After reading these comments and watching a couple of videos, I am thinking that the best approach may be to stick to making a morph (no change in number of vertices) for the general shape and adjust the rigging if necessary (which it would be for a baby character, for example). If I want to increase the detail in certain areas I will need to learn how to make geografts and/or create Normal Maps in Blender.
All in all, this kind of research makes me appreciate the skills of the PAs.
If I was making a baby*, I would dial the shape and height in DS as close as possible first, export to Blender, make the changes and import back to DS with reverse deformations.
*I have tried finding DIY instructions for making a baby, but the ones I have found so far, all require two persons of opposite sex, so can't help you more, sorry...
Oh yes - that "Try This at Home" method? My results with that were somewhat better than I expect to achieve using DAZ Studio (and maybe even more fun at the time). Certainly much better looking than the commercially created DAZ babies.
Finally got around to makig that video.
Personally, I find that one even more unnerving than base Tobyn/Caryn. The only baby models that I consider usable are Small World and one or two of the add-on characters for Tobyn and Caryn.
Thanks for pointing out Small World but still not quite there yet. All these babies look like they are are the children of Buzz Lightyear. The jaws are huge. A chubby baby-face is one thing but they kids look ready to take on Mike Tyson. And what's the story with those rolls of flesh around the joints? If my child had those I'd be heading for A&E tout suite.
The Deepsea baby is an improvement - but, as was mentioned above, there is something a little disturbing about it too. Maybe it is the way the eyes are a little offset backwards so there is a gap between eyeball and lid? Or perhaps the mouth is a little weird ... not baby-like. Otherwise, the body doesn't have those ugly rolls of flabby flesh but yet it doesn't look right - the shape or the proportiions look off somehow. I'm starting to realise that when even excellent artists like Deepsea can't get it right, then sculpting babies must be a thankless task.
Very good, thanks. Nice and to the point.
I was hoping for an explanation of when to use ERC Freeze but perhaps it was not an issue with your morph example.
Very good point, that should have been added. But here is another video that discusses it.
I thought I'd append my question to this, since it already contains quite a bit of info regarding morphs and Blender
Could someone explain basic steps of how to export/import between Daz and Blender emotion morphs? What I want to do is create a bit different smile morphs, change how the creases are around cheek/mouth area.
I'm pretty comfortable sending a genesis figure back and forth between Daz and Blender if I want to sculpt the face or body in neutral pose using Morph Loader Pro and "Reverse Deformations: Yes", everything works as expected, but I can't find any tips on how to customize let's say a G8.1F "Smile Open Full Face" expression, I'm somewhat aware of JCMs, weight maps etc, and how they interact, I've even did some "helper" morphs inside Daz using meshgrabber, but I was wondering how to go about doing that using Blender, since Beshgrabber is very lacking when it comes to sculpting.
tip regarding the issue mentioned previously regarding sculpting aroung mouth and eye area, to avoid deforming eyes for instance when sculpting eyelid area, in Blender, while in Sculpt mode, and Draw (or any other brush) selected, on the right side (default layout), there is a Active Tool and Workspace settings tab (screwdriver and wrench icon), then under Brush Settings>Advanced> check the "Topology" setting, what this does for a Grab brush for instance is that if you grab a vertex on the eyelid next to the eye, it will no longer pull the eye mesh geometry with it, don't ask me to explain why, it just works... but you have to check that setting for each brush you're going to use.
@j11011
Let's use Smile Open Full Face that you mentioned as the example. An FACS expression on G8.1 is not a 'true morph' but just a single Pose Control dial controlling a series of sub-expressions and bones as default, so there's no geometry data in its dsf file. You current way will not work. Now in this case, a quickest way is to create a delta morph which could be controlled by Smile Open Full Face. For instance, let's add more crease on asolabial fold based on this expression:
1. Dial this expression 100% on G8.1F base figure. Set figure's Resolution Level to Base and export to obj file.
2. Import obj to blender and sculpt more crease, then export to obj file.
3. Use Morph Loader Pro to import obj file with these settings:
4. Then when you dial Smile Open Full Face, this 'delta morph with more crease' will be automatically triggered.
5. Save this 'delta morph' as a Morph Asset to your vendor folder.
In this way, you're able to use a FACS control dial + any delta morph of subtle variations that you made.
PS: You surely can create a uniqe morph based on this expression then make change on it but that'll take more steps and time, not really necessary... and you'll have no way to separately control partial expression with it..
Crosswind, thanks for the quick response, I think I had forgotten about the "deltas only" option, that seems to do what I wanted, I didn't want the "extra detail" morph to be tied to any particular emotion, so I imported it with reverse:yes and deltas only, so I can then dial it manually whenever I want it, the only "issue" is having to remember to load it before doing any additional shaping or posing:)
and I figured I'd try this with G9, since it has more base detail, getting this to work with G8 probably isn't feasible, since the base mesh is just too crude and mere mortals can't import hd morphs (which I think, with the recent developments in other 3d softwares, will eventually lead to people dropping Daz altogether, having to fix all issues with creditcard after waiting for PAs to finally produce a product that actually does what you want just isn't a solution)
here's an example of almost default V9 with Smile Show Teeth at 50%, then a custom head I sculpted with bone adjustment done (not manual, the automatic one), and the 3rd one was the 2nd exported again to blender (with morphs, and had to dial in the show teeth smile in blender, and take it from there) and sculpted in the extra detail and fixes (I'm no artist btw, just a regular amateur, so don't judge too harshly :D )
I know some of the "lizardness" can be fixed fiddling with dials and face in PowerPose, but what I was looking for is extra wrinkles, dimples and creases, and that is just too painful to do using meshgrabber, that author has their work cut out for them to add sculpting to it, not just simple mesh manipulation if they want Daz to continue to be relevant
here the "helper" morph on the 1st head (the custom head dialed out), now if only Daz would figure out that adding assymetry to "default" expressions isn't a great idea...
Pretty nice~ and agreed, you nearly can do anything to the figure by using sculpting / modeling tool, except for HD morphs...