Moving a graspable object (close) to the target hand by means of coordinates?

Federmann

Moving a graspable object (close) to the target hand by means of coordinates?

Oh, oh that perennial newbie thing: placing an object in a character's hand… Aren’t there enough tutorials out there that explain how to do just that? Like most newbies I struggle with placing objects (like glasses, guns, arrows) into hands of my characters. You would have thought there would be a dedicated an easy feature to accomplish exactly this within DAZ studio. Now there are some pretty good resources that explain at least some aspects of the task ‘at hand’.

• Placing an object in a character's hand [link]
• Defining an Object's Location (Translation) [link]
• Putting Props in Hands [link]

In one of these discussions the notion is put forward (without further explanation) to move the object to the target hand by using the x, y, z coordinates of that hand. From the resources I have consulted I now have some awareness of objects coordinates (= local coordinates?) and world coordinates, the tool settings tab and the important SnapParent script but how does one go about:

1. What: Retrieving the relevant coordinates of the target hand?
2. How: Using those coordinates to move an object (like glass, gun or arrow) to the target hand?

I already know changing the x,y, z parameters within parameters affects the object's position; I am familiar using positive and negative values. I also realize there probably will still be a need to tweak the position of the object into the hand, possibly also tweak the hand pose itself and not forget to parent the object to the hand but it would be great to have the object be already extremely close to the target by means of coordinates (or indeed through a dedicated script if it exists).

‘Must have’ pose library covering holding objects?
Side note: of the (probably) thousands of fancy poses I bought from the DAZ shop it would seem almost NONE actually are tailored to hold objects apart from some libraries that focus on gun/knife props and poses. Could it be that I am unaware of a (‘must have’) pose library that covers holding objects quite extensively?

Chezjuan

I do not know how to get the coordinates of a specific body part, but you can quickly get objects to the general area of hands by parenting them. IMO trying to get the coordinates is an unnecessary step, especially since you'll eventually want to parent the prop anyway if you want it to move with the character.

1. Right click the unparented prop and select "change "<name of prop>" parent
2. Make sure the "parent in place" box us unchecked
3. Find the bone of the figure to which you want to parent the prop (i.e. Hand)
4. Click OK

That will put the prop at the base bone of the selected body part, and you can move/rotate it from there to get it into the hand properly. It generally doesn't take too long once you parent it.

It's best to do this when there are as few objects in the scene, because the parent window can be cluttered as it shows all the available bones of all objects in expanded view. If I have character will be using a prop that I have to parent by hand, I'll load the figure, pose the figure, then parent/position the prop, then add the other scene elements (clothing, environments, etc.). 

I don't know of a pose set dedicated to holding objects in the Daz store. There might be something similar in one of the other places like Rendorosity. With objects like swords, flashlights, glasses, etc. I find that "grasp" in "pose controls" will get me close enough to be able to relatively quickly tweak the finger positions as needed. For other items, I sometimes look for poses that come with similar props so I can apply them and tweak from there. If I find a particularly tricky grasp/hold that I set up, I will save it as a custom preset. 

Hope this helps.

Federmann

Chezjuan said:

I do not know how to get the coordinates of a specific body part, but you can quickly get objects to the general area of hands by parenting them. IMO trying to get the coordinates is an unnecessary step, especially since you'll eventually want to parent the prop anyway if you want it to move with the character.

1. Right click the unparented prop and select "change "<name of prop>" parent
2. Make sure the "parent in place" box us unchecked
3. Find the bone of the figure to which you want to parent the prop (i.e. Hand)
4. Click OK

That will put the prop at the base bone of the selected body part, and you can move/rotate it from there to get it into the hand properly. It generally doesn't take too long once you parent it.

It's best to do this when there are as few objects in the scene, because the parent window can be cluttered as it shows all the available bones of all objects in expanded view. If I have character will be using a prop that I have to parent by hand, I'll load the figure, pose the figure, then parent/position the prop, then add the other scene elements (clothing, environments, etc.). 

I don't know of a pose set dedicated to holding objects in the Daz store. There might be something similar in one of the other places like Rendorosity. With objects like swords, flashlights, glasses, etc. I find that "grasp" in "pose controls" will get me close enough to be able to relatively quickly tweak the finger positions as needed. For other items, I sometimes look for poses that come with similar props so I can apply them and tweak from there. If I find a particularly tricky grasp/hold that I set up, I will save it as a custom preset. 

Hope this helps.

Some great tips Chezjuan, thanks as always. Can't believe I never realized the consequence of not unchecking 'Parent in place' at step 2, 'Parent in place' checked and the object simply won't budge! I do find that sometimes the parented object moves ('Parent in place' unchecked), but nowhere near the target hand which is odd, knife in left hand, no problem; gun in right hand nowhere near. You're right after a succesful parenting that the rest is pretty easy. The entire coordinates thing (DAZ has five types in tool settings) I did not come up with by myself but it was mentioned in the resources; at some level in DAZ Studio every 3d node must have these coordinates and it would be nice to be able to use it to quickly move props and such to a particular place in the scene (without parenting). Dragging stuff (after finding it in the scene [alt + drag not always is succesful]) from a to b quite often takes a lot of time in my case and is my least favorite part of scene building. I will re-evaluate the grasp poses that I already have and try to make them work in more situations.

Chezjuan

Federmann said:

Chezjuan said:

I do not know how to get the coordinates of a specific body part, but you can quickly get objects to the general area of hands by parenting them. IMO trying to get the coordinates is an unnecessary step, especially since you'll eventually want to parent the prop anyway if you want it to move with the character.

1. Right click the unparented prop and select "change "<name of prop>" parent
2. Make sure the "parent in place" box us unchecked
3. Find the bone of the figure to which you want to parent the prop (i.e. Hand)
4. Click OK

That will put the prop at the base bone of the selected body part, and you can move/rotate it from there to get it into the hand properly. It generally doesn't take too long once you parent it.

It's best to do this when there are as few objects in the scene, because the parent window can be cluttered as it shows all the available bones of all objects in expanded view. If I have character will be using a prop that I have to parent by hand, I'll load the figure, pose the figure, then parent/position the prop, then add the other scene elements (clothing, environments, etc.). 

I don't know of a pose set dedicated to holding objects in the Daz store. There might be something similar in one of the other places like Rendorosity. With objects like swords, flashlights, glasses, etc. I find that "grasp" in "pose controls" will get me close enough to be able to relatively quickly tweak the finger positions as needed. For other items, I sometimes look for poses that come with similar props so I can apply them and tweak from there. If I find a particularly tricky grasp/hold that I set up, I will save it as a custom preset. 

Hope this helps.

Some great tips Chezjuan, thanks as always. Can't believe I never realized the consequence of not unchecking 'Parent in place' at step 2, 'Parent in place' checked and the object simply won't budge! I do find that sometimes the parented object moves ('Parent in place' unchecked), but nowhere near the target hand which is odd, knife in left hand, no problem; gun in right hand nowhere near. You're right after a succesful parenting that the rest is pretty easy. The entire coordinates thing (DAZ has five types in tool settings) I did not come up with by myself but it was mentioned in the resources; at some level in DAZ Studio every 3d node must have these coordinates and it would be nice to be able to use it to quickly move props and such to a particular place in the scene (without parenting). Dragging stuff (after finding it in the scene [alt + drag not always is succesful]) from a to b quite often takes a lot of time in my case and is my least favorite part of scene building. I will re-evaluate the grasp poses that I already have and try to make them work in more situations.

I do find that there are times when trying to parent a prop made for an older generation character to a Genesis 8 character, the prop will go to the "T-pose" position rather than the "A-pose" position. I wonder if changing scene identification will fix that (I'll have to try it sometime).

If you're looking to get something in the neighborhood of the character, you could always select the character and note its coordinates, then put those coordinates into the prop's general settings. Though that would line it up with the characters base position, not the hand.

If you're looking to place an unparented prop in a hand, you could always create a default null, parent it to the hand (with parent in place unchecked), then note the coordinates of the parented null. Then you can enter those coordinates into the prop's general settings and delete the null. That would take care of the generational positioning problem. Then if you wanted to parent, you could position the prop completely (rotation, moving a bit) and then parent with parent in place checked.

PerttiA

Chezjuan said:

I do find that there are times when trying to parent a prop made for an older generation character to a Genesis 8 character, the prop will go to the "T-pose" position rather than the "A-pose" position. I wonder if changing scene identification will fix that (I'll have to try it sometime).

Scene identification just tells DS that the item is meant for the figure you want, it doesn't change any coordinates.

I have found it easier to set the figure to it's default pose, then before parenting, move the item to the hand in a position where the figure just needs to grab it. Then parent the item to the hand and save it as Wearable Preset, so you don't need to do it again for another figure.

Federmann

Chezjuan said:

Federmann said:

Chezjuan said:

I do not know how to get the coordinates of a specific body part, but you can quickly get objects to the general area of hands by parenting them. IMO trying to get the coordinates is an unnecessary step, especially since you'll eventually want to parent the prop anyway if you want it to move with the character.

1. Right click the unparented prop and select "change "<name of prop>" parent
2. Make sure the "parent in place" box us unchecked
3. Find the bone of the figure to which you want to parent the prop (i.e. Hand)
4. Click OK

That will put the prop at the base bone of the selected body part, and you can move/rotate it from there to get it into the hand properly. It generally doesn't take too long once you parent it.

It's best to do this when there are as few objects in the scene, because the parent window can be cluttered as it shows all the available bones of all objects in expanded view. If I have character will be using a prop that I have to parent by hand, I'll load the figure, pose the figure, then parent/position the prop, then add the other scene elements (clothing, environments, etc.). 

I don't know of a pose set dedicated to holding objects in the Daz store. There might be something similar in one of the other places like Rendorosity. With objects like swords, flashlights, glasses, etc. I find that "grasp" in "pose controls" will get me close enough to be able to relatively quickly tweak the finger positions as needed. For other items, I sometimes look for poses that come with similar props so I can apply them and tweak from there. If I find a particularly tricky grasp/hold that I set up, I will save it as a custom preset. 

Hope this helps.

Some great tips Chezjuan, thanks as always. Can't believe I never realized the consequence of not unchecking 'Parent in place' at step 2, 'Parent in place' checked and the object simply won't budge! I do find that sometimes the parented object moves ('Parent in place' unchecked), but nowhere near the target hand which is odd, knife in left hand, no problem; gun in right hand nowhere near. You're right after a succesful parenting that the rest is pretty easy. The entire coordinates thing (DAZ has five types in tool settings) I did not come up with by myself but it was mentioned in the resources; at some level in DAZ Studio every 3d node must have these coordinates and it would be nice to be able to use it to quickly move props and such to a particular place in the scene (without parenting). Dragging stuff (after finding it in the scene [alt + drag not always is succesful]) from a to b quite often takes a lot of time in my case and is my least favorite part of scene building. I will re-evaluate the grasp poses that I already have and try to make them work in more situations.

I do find that there are times when trying to parent a prop made for an older generation character to a Genesis 8 character, the prop will go to the "T-pose" position rather than the "A-pose" position. I wonder if changing scene identification will fix that (I'll have to try it sometime).

If you're looking to get something in the neighborhood of the character, you could always select the character and note its coordinates, then put those coordinates into the prop's general settings. Though that would line it up with the characters base position, not the hand.

If you're looking to place an unparented prop in a hand, you could always create a default null, parent it to the hand (with parent in place unchecked), then note the coordinates of the parented null. Then you can enter those coordinates into the prop's general settings and delete the null. That would take care of the generational positioning problem. Then if you wanted to parent, you could position the prop completely (rotation, moving a bit) and then parent with parent in place checked.

 

Thanks for those extra pointers. Some are a bit above my current  grasp of DAZ but I'll ruminate on it for a while and do some searches. 

Federmann

PerttiA said:

(...) set the figure to it's default pose, then before parenting, move the item to the hand in a position where the figure just needs to grab it. Then parent the item to the hand and save it as Wearable Preset, so you don't need to do it again for another figure.

Haven't thought of that thanks . As for saving wearable preset poses, only learned about it yesterday but already made some pretty useful presets. Finally a method to make all that precision tweaking and fiddling pay dividend for future use. Turns out I have quite a lot of wearable items just waiting to get their own wearable preset pose, for now I'll settle for a top 20.

FeralFey

PerttiA said:

Chezjuan said:

I do find that there are times when trying to parent a prop made for an older generation character to a Genesis 8 character, the prop will go to the "T-pose" position rather than the "A-pose" position. I wonder if changing scene identification will fix that (I'll have to try it sometime).

Scene identification just tells DS that the item is meant for the figure you want, it doesn't change any coordinates.

I have found it easier to set the figure to it's default pose, then before parenting, move the item to the hand in a position where the figure just needs to grab it. Then parent the item to the hand and save it as Wearable Preset, so you don't need to do it again for another figure.

^ This is the technique that I routinely use.