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Noise Functions Won't Animate (Transform Tab) When Set To "Global"?

DesertDudeDesertDude Posts: 1,235
edited December 1969 in Carrara Discussion

Hello All,

When I choose any of the noise functions for a texture, set to "Global" and then try to animate using the Transform Tab (Enable Transform checked) nothing happens for Center, Scaling or Rotation. I can enter values, and Carrara will create the keyframes, but when rendered there is no animation. When I scrub the timeline I see in the Transform Tab the values changing, but no visual change. This happens for all the noise functions, and some others I have just briefly tested like Cellular., when set to "Global".

Can anyone confirm this? Am I (probably) doing something wrong? I did do a Google search and a forum search but couldn't find anything, so I apologize if this has been addressed already.

Carrara 8.1, imac 2.8GHz Intel Core i5, 4 GB RAM, Yosemite

Thanks!

Comments

  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,615
    edited December 1969

    A "global" texture is applied to the scene, not the object. So you can visualize the texture as being kind of an invisible ocean in your scene, and when the object moves it moves "through" the texture. The texture is fixed in the scene. Therefore the texture that appears on the object changes only as the object moves.

  • DesertDudeDesertDude Posts: 1,235
    edited June 2015

    JoeMamma2000 said:
    A "global" texture is applied to the scene, not the object. So you can visualize the texture as being kind of an invisible ocean in your scene, and when the object moves it moves "through" the texture. The texture is fixed in the scene. Therefore the texture that appears on the object changes only as the object moves.

    Hi JoeMamma2000, thank you for the explanation. That is how my fuzzy brain understands Global vs Local as well, but in another animation package I can animate the Global settings (called "World", but I think it's the same thing...). So, what I was trying to achieve was the effect of geometry revealing/moving through the "Global" texture, but the texture itself also subtly shifting. I don't know for certain if that is the effect I want because...it's not working...

    I especially wanted to compare Global vs Local to see what could create a better illusion of what I am trying to create.

    If this is a "feature", maybe when set to "Global" for these noise functions , the Transform Tab should be disabled with a few words like "Global settings cannot be animated"...or something. (hint: Daz3D programmers... :-P)

    Hope I am not being dense here.

    edited to say "hint: Daz3D programmers instead of "That's directed at..." for diplomacy.

    Post edited by DesertDude on
  • DUDUDUDU Posts: 1,945
    edited December 1969

    Philemo had a similar issue here with the global setting: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewreply/818220/

  • cdordonicdordoni Posts: 583
    edited December 1969

    Not sure if this will help, DCG's ShaderOps2 has a function called Space Mangler

    Quoted from the site, since we can't link here:

    Space Mangler remaps global, local, and UV coordinates into other spaces. It can be a channel or top shader.
    Each coordinate has a drop down next to it to select how to remap it. The first groups of selections are other coordinates.

    The Cos(U), Sin(U), Cos(V), and Sin(V) are useful for wrapping 3D objects that have UV coordinates.

    Constant lets you specify a particular value in that channel.
    Global X, Y, and Z at origin are helpful when you have a moving object that you want map using Global space.

    The Scale sliders adjust the relative values.

  • DesertDudeDesertDude Posts: 1,235
    edited December 1969

    Hi DUDU_00001, thanks for the link. I remember seeing that thread recently. But this is a different problem - when switching to Global space and animating the texture via the transform tab, nothing happens.

    cdordoni - thanks for info about ShaderOps2. I was hoping to find a native solution because I have an idea for a product and I would want it to work right out the box without any need for 3rd party plugins. (One can only dream, right?)

    I have attached some pictures to better illustrate the problem.

    In the first picture, I have Fractal Noise set to Local space and have activated 'Enable Transform' in the Transform tab. In the second picture, I moved 1 frame and changed the value on the 'Z' axis, and you can see the texture has moved, in the case vertically on the 'Z'.

    The third picture I changed the Space to Global and did the same thing, animated on the 'Z' axis. You can see between the two frames nothing has happened. It doesn't matter what values I enter - nothing happens.

    So I am asking if this is intentionally supposed to not work, or if it is a bug? Maybe a Mac specific bug?

    Thanks for any insights.

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  • mikael-aronssonmikael-aronsson Posts: 564
    edited June 2015

    It looks like a bug to me.

    With "Local" the fractal should stay the same if you transform it (the object).
    In "World" it would change if you transform the object.

    But either way, when you change the fractal transformation the result should change either way because the fractal use the 3D coordinate (or 2D if you select UV) to generate the noise value.

    But maybe it is intended to work that way also, there is not much information in the manual about it.

    Post edited by mikael-aronsson on
  • DesertDudeDesertDude Posts: 1,235
    edited December 1969

    Hi mikael-aronsson, thank you for the explanations. I just checked the manual now (I should have looked there first...lol) and couldn't find anything specific about transforming the texture (using transform tab) when set to Global space.

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited December 1969

    I can't test it in C8.5 Pro because I don't have to that computer right now. However, using C7.2 Pro, I could use a color gradient and a fractal noise shader set to Global, to drive the gradient. I could animate both the parameters of the shader and also animate the "texture slide" as the sphere I applied the shader to, moved through the 3D space in the scene.

    If it's a bug, then it was introduced after C7.2.

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  • DesertDudeDesertDude Posts: 1,235
    edited December 1969

    evilproducer said:
    I can't test it in C8.5 Pro because I don't have to that computer right now. However, using C7.2 Pro, I could use a color gradient and a fractal noise shader set to Global, to drive the gradient. I could animate both the parameters of the shader and also animate the "texture slide" as the sphere I applied the shader to, moved through the 3D space in the scene.

    If it's a bug, then it was introduced after C7.2.

    Hi evilproducer, thanks taking the time to help, hope you are well.

    I was able to reproduce your test in C8.1. But the problem I am experiencing occurs when using the Transform Tab (in the Shader) changing values for the Center, Scaling or Rotation when set to Global space. Carrara creates the keyframes and the values change over time, but the texture remains static.

    This may just be the way Carrara behaves, and may be the norm, I don't know. It occurs in all the Noise Functions set to Global space and using the Transform Tab. I just tested in LightWave animating a sphere with a noise texture set to World space and successfully animated the texture position as well. I can't seem to confirm if this is a bug or normal behavior for Carrara.

    I did notice something strange, under Master Shaders in the Sequencer, drilling down to Fractal Noise, there are more channels to animate than what appears in the Fractal Noise Tab, plus some names that don't match up. Anyway I thought there might be a work around, as there is Scale and Origin for XYZ...but again, only works in Local space not Global for me. >:-(

    Thanks again! :-)

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  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited December 1969

    Ah, my mistake! I wasn't thinking about the X,Y,Z transformation. I was thinking about the first tab's tools. I shall have to test tomorrow if I have the time, as my curiosity is piqued.

  • DesertDudeDesertDude Posts: 1,235
    edited December 1969

    evilproducer said:
    Ah, my mistake! I wasn't thinking about the X,Y,Z transformation. I was thinking about the first tab's tools. I shall have to test tomorrow if I have the time, as my curiosity is piqued.

    Cool, thanks evilproducer.

    I did some quick tests this morning. I found that in C7.2 Pro the Transform Tab does not produce animated results when using the Noise Functions set to Global Space.

    I stand completely corrected in my previous post concerning Fractal Noise and the "hidden" controls found only when one drills down in the Shader in the Sequencer under 'Master Shaders' - the Scale and Origin for XYZ work in C7.2 Pro and C8.1 Pro when set to Global Space, but you can only change their values using the Graph Editor because...those controls are not displayed in the Shader Room. :blank:

    So, yay(!), something works...but the other Noise Functions lack these hidden controls...

    Also, here are the discrepancies between the names in the Sequencer and the Shader Room for Fractal Noise (the other Noise Functions match what one sees in the Shader Room):

    Offset = Brightness
    Amplitude = Contrast
    Global Scale = Scale
    Fractal = Fractal Check Box (On or Off)
    Frequency = Density
    Step = Pattern

    And from what I observe maybe Phy, Theta and Psy are rotations? They also work in Global Space.

    I feel like something is disconnected behind the scenes when set to Global Space, because it does work using those 'hidden' controls.

    Thanks all for following thus far.

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