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What do you want Carrara to be?

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  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,180

    I was told by others of this limit and certainly have experienced errors myself at those sizes, Spooky would be the one to clarify it, it may be system related too,

  • mikael-aronssonmikael-aronsson Posts: 564

    Left overs from the 32 bit days, a wild guess is that the internal structure use 32 bit signed values for references inside the same memory structure and that' not something that can be changed that easy, even though it should be simple to expand to 4GB without to much trouble unless they use the negative values for something special.

     

  • bighbigh Posts: 8,147

    the new Carrara -

    ..

    http://www.daz3d.com/08-27-shade-3d?utm_source=bm23&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Image+-+30%+Off+Shade+3D+Today&utm_content=Take+Your+Modeling+To+The+Next+Level&utm_campaign=(08/27/15)+Shade+3D.

     

  • bighbigh Posts: 8,147

    the better Carrara - I can dream surprise

    http://lumion3d.com/products/

  • TangoAlphaTangoAlpha Posts: 4,584

    There's a limit on the size of an obj export too, & I've certainly hit it a few times exporting poly versions of trees etc.

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited August 2015
    Dondec said:

    That's pretty interesting JaguarE... I didn't realize there was a 2GB limit on project files.  I don't know or have any association with the Carrara code but you might be on to something, sort of an internal memory  limit.  Back in the Win32 days, 2G was the usual system memory limit so they may have coded to that, and its still with us today.   If true, if the Daz developers simply increase that  limit and allowed for the additional bones , G3  would be good to go.   Just an educated guess.

    Off topic but related  I'm starting to realize that V4 and I think G are a lot lighter weight that G2 figures (and G2 clearly ligher than G3).   I need to experiment more on this but  with 2 Genesis2 figures loaded from duf files  my scene load took a pretty "long time". .  Similar setup in DS are a no brainer.  Seems like there were some software  improvements put in DS that WE WANT :)

    I think I read elsewhere (Jonstark I think) that if you load figures from the Carrara Browser they load faster than using duf files. Not sure why that might be, but if you (or anyone) knows anything about this I'd love to know.   Thanks

        - Don 

    When you save something to the Object Browser, it is saved in Carrara's native format which is .car for scene files. I could be wrong on this, but I think the reason the figure will load more quickly from the browser is because all the translations and conversions that Carrara needs to to do to import the .duf file are already done. If the scene is saved locally, then the only thing in the .car file is the geometry, rigging and influences. Image maps are generally referenced from their original locations.

    Post edited by evilproducer on
  • tsaristtsarist Posts: 1,614

    I would like Carrara to be able to use Genesis 1-3 & DUF format without difficulty.

    I see too many regular users say G1 & 2 don't work right (experts can get it to work, mostly)

    I want DUF to work trouble free

  • DondecDondec Posts: 243

    Just a follow up on figure comparisions:

    All tests started from a freshly started Carrara on an Win10 i7 PC w 16G ram:

    V4 load from duf:  12 sec,   Save to Carrara Browser 2s (car file 44K),  reload from browser:  2s

    V5 load from duf:  1m 11s,  save to Carrara Browser 6s (car file 384K),  reload from browser: 12 s

    V6 load from duf:  1m 10s,  save  to Carrara Browser 6s (car file 320K),  reload from browder 11 s

    These are unclothed figures only. 

    From this it seems like Gen4 (V4, M4) figures are much lighter weight, so if you need a bunch of them in your scene and don't need the benefits of G or G2 figures, they still look pretty attractive, space wise.

    Having several Genesis and G2 figures in your scene seems to kick up the project size a lot.  Perhaps that also because the garments designed for them also have more polys?  Not sure, but   I've got two G2F clothed and posed figures in a recent project... saved as uncompressed car file = 2.4G!    That's pants, shirt and hair for each.  I selected the option to Save using Local Settings which I think is NOT supposed to save everything in the car file, but 2.4G seems too high for a saved reference to each item. 

        - Don

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    That may be morphs and stuff as well. I don't really know how all that works. I just know that if I load all the morphs++ on a V4, and save it, the file is larger, and takes longer to load than if it is just the stock figure.
  • DondecDondec Posts: 243
    edited August 2015

    As I recall, each morph is a complete "point map" for every poly in the figure.  Adding Morphs+ would def up the size.  I'm not so used to working with G and G2, they seem to have a bunch of morphs that come with the default  figure. 

    Is there a way to remove morphs that you don't need?  That could save some space, perhaps lots.

       - Don

    Post edited by Dondec on
  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 3,232
    Dondec said:

    ... I didn't realize there was a 2GB limit on project files. 

    I didn't know that, either, or maybe I just forgot.  I'm doing an animation project now that is getting close ... may have to rethink the camera angles and break it up ...

  • DondecDondec Posts: 243
    edited August 2015

    Looks like SaveAs with "use local settings" or "All External" is the way to go.  Those methods drastically reduces project file size, like the 384K "Save All Internal" files  reduced to a meare 8K.

    Basically that's all I need to reduce some of my huge projects to fit in less that 2Gig.

       - Don

    Post edited by Dondec on
  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 3,232
    Dondec said:

    Looks like SaveAs with "use local settings" or "All External" is the way to go.  Those methods drastically reduces project file size, like the 384K "Save All Internal" files  reduced to a meare 8K.

    Basically that's all I need to reduce some of my huge projects to fit in less that 2Gig.

       - Don

    Good suggestion, thanks.  I usually save with "All contained" or whatever its called, mainly because I enter two day film making contests and think it might help if I have to switch computers.  But with a backup hard drive in my main machine, that's pretty unlikely.

  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 3,232

    Hmmm ... 

    Steve K said:
    Dondec said:

    Looks like SaveAs with "use local settings" or "All External" is the way to go.  Those methods drastically reduces project file size, like the 384K "Save All Internal" files  reduced to a meare 8K.

    Basically that's all I need to reduce some of my huge projects to fit in less that 2Gig.

       - Don

    Good suggestion, thanks.  I usually save with "All contained" or whatever its called, mainly because I enter two day film making contests and think it might help if I have to switch computers.  But with a backup hard drive in my main machine, that's pretty unlikely.

    Hmmm ... as a test I tried saving all three ways.  "Save All Internally" was 766 MB, the "Use Local Settings" was 718 MB, and the "Save All Externally" seemed to want me to pick a file format (TIFF, JPG, etc.) for each texture, which would take a long time - I cancelled out of that.  The scene uses mostly (lots of) texture maps rather than shaders, so maybe that's just a problem?

  • DondecDondec Posts: 243
    edited September 2015

    Ok, I did the same...

    First off, I found an uncompressed project already exceeding 2G in size, 2,827,534K actually, so apparently Carrara can create files larger than 2G.   BUT I noticed some of the morphs no longer worked correctly when I reloaded it, so maybe there is something to keeping the project file itself less than 2G after all.  Indeed all the morphs worked in earlier versions of this project, and they were all less than 2G in size.   Interesting.

    As an experiment: The smallest uncompressed car file I was able to create was by first removing unused Objects and Shaders , then Consolidating Shaders, then saving it using "All External".  The Car file dropped to 1,762,067K, and all the external TIFFs generated amounted to another 1.7G.  (I just held the Return Key down till all the external files were created... there were a lot of TIFFs!).  By comparison the exact same project, saved "use local settings" was 2,827494K.

    I guess the take away from all this is: if your project starts saving out over 2G, start using the Compressed option right away to prevent data loss.  The "All External" method also works but is actually slower and more tedius.

       - Don

     

     

    Post edited by Dondec on
  • DondecDondec Posts: 243

    JaguarElla... it would be helpful if Spooky could set us straight here.  Not sure how to get a hold of him though.

       - Don

  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,615

    One thing that Evil set me straight on is that it seems better to NOT choose DAZ's "compressed" file option when saving a CAR file. Instead let your operating system use its own compression on it. It might not compress as much, but I've found it to be a lot faster overall. I just select the folder where my scenes are saved and then right click on the folder, choose Properties/Advanced, and select the option to compress.

  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,615

    Wait a minute....

    How did we veer into a discussion of file saving in a "What do you want Carrara to be?" thread ?? smiley

    Just sayin'. Some folks like to maintain strict thread relevance. Not me, but I'm being sensitive to others.

    Just sayin'.  

     

  • bighbigh Posts: 8,147
    JoeMamma2000 said:

    Wait a minute....

    How did we veer into a discussion of file saving in a "What do you want Carrara to be?" thread ?? smiley

    Just sayin'. Some folks like to maintain strict thread relevance. Not me, but I'm being sensitive to others.

    Just sayin'.  

     

    surprise

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    Dondec said:

    Ok, I did the same...

    First off, I found an uncompressed project already exceeding 2G in size, 2,827,534K actually, so apparently Carrara can create files larger than 2G.   BUT I noticed some of the morphs no longer worked correctly when I reloaded it, so maybe there is something to keeping the project file itself less than 2G after all.  Indeed all the morphs worked in earlier versions of this project, and they were all less than 2G in size.   Interesting.

    As an experiment: The smallest uncompressed car file I was able to create was by first removing unused Objects and Shaders , then Consolidating Shaders, then saving it using "All External".  The Car file dropped to 1,762,067K, and all the external TIFFs generated amounted to another 1.7G.  (I just held the Return Key down till all the external files were created... there were a lot of TIFFs!).  By comparison the exact same project, saved "use local settings" was 2,827494K.

    I guess the take away from all this is: if your project starts saving out over 2G, start using the Compressed option right away to prevent data loss.  The "All External" method also works but is actually slower and more tedius.

       - Don

     

     

    Avoid saving a compressed file, unless space is an issue!

    The compressed file is just compressed so that it saves HD space. Carrara has to decompress the file to read it, so if you have around a 2GB file and compress it and knock off a couple hundred megabytes, it is still going to be decompressed at around 2GB for Carrara to use it. So if this 2GB bug is real, it will not help. Add to that, that file corruption is a big possibility when using the built in compression option. You are better saving the scene without compression and then using a file zipping utility to compress it if you plan to archive it.

    Have Mac users been bitten by this bug? In versions of Carrara, prior to C7.2 (yes, C7.0 was included if I recall correctly) Windows users had to use a LUAA script to make Carrara large address aware (to be able to address more than 2GB of RAM in a 32 bit system). The Mac Carrara versions didn't have this issue. I was just wondering if it was some old code in the Windows version causing this problem.

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    Dondec said:

    JaguarElla... it would be helpful if Spooky could set us straight here.  Not sure how to get a hold of him though.

       - Don

    Easiest way is to file a support ticket. 

    Note I am unaware of a 2Gig limit on project files, so I can't answer this question directly. :) 

     

    It could be something that was missed when Carrara was brought to 64 bit (Carrara 8 Pro), or even LAA (Carrara 7.1) but that is just speculation. I, almost, always save with local as the default (Which leaves external references alone and uses internal saving for those things that have references outside the normal paths.) 

    The exception being when I need to be able to pass the file to another machine. Then it is save all internally and those get huge in a hurry. (And even before 64 bit I don't recall any issues with those.) 

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,180

    THX Spooky for clarifying,

    I have found issues with sizes that large myself but also recall a post on the old forum I sadly cannot find where a limit was mentioned,  by whom I do not know.

    It would have been before 8.5 too.

    it may also be related to one's machine limitations as I suggested.

     

  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 3,232
    Dondec said:

     

    I guess the take away from all this is: if your project starts saving out over 2G, start using the Compressed option right away to prevent data loss.  The "All External" method also works but is actually slower and more tedious.

     

    That sounds reasonable.  In my case of short animations, I'll probably look at the needed camera angles and break up the file accordingly.  The items not in the shot don't need to be in the file, although that can be more convenient - just turn the camera for the next shot.

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