[Released] Magic - Smart Actions for Posing [Commercial]

Fairyteller

nlbs said:

Fairyteller said:

nlbs said:

After the last update. There's a serious problem with the product. For some reason, Right Shoulder and Right Collar reset their positions after applying Magic Pointer to bake to transforms on Genesis 8.1. Same goes for Left and Right Foot.

I can't reproduce it for some reason. It feels to me like it's working as intended but maybe there's something I'm not seeing.

If we take the Right Shoulder for example, do you know of a set of rotation values that is problematic/lost?

Here's the problem in question in detail. I hope this helps.

https://imgur.com/a/GdlNjGp

It helps a ton, thank you.

I think I understand what's happening. Do you by any chance use any of these Pose Control morphs, such as "Arms Front-Back Right" or any other pose morph slider?

https://i.imgur.com/ScHUpgi.png

Could you maybe try resetting them all to their default value before you bake, and tell me if this "fixes" the baking problem? "Fix" is not the right term, I know, but if my intuition is correct then I have a pretty good idea how to fix this for real.

nlbs

Fairyteller said:

nlbs said:

Fairyteller said:

nlbs said:

After the last update. There's a serious problem with the product. For some reason, Right Shoulder and Right Collar reset their positions after applying Magic Pointer to bake to transforms on Genesis 8.1. Same goes for Left and Right Foot.

I can't reproduce it for some reason. It feels to me like it's working as intended but maybe there's something I'm not seeing.

If we take the Right Shoulder for example, do you know of a set of rotation values that is problematic/lost?

Here's the problem in question in detail. I hope this helps.

https://imgur.com/a/GdlNjGp

It helps a ton, thank you.

I think I understand what's happening. Do you by any chance use any of these Pose Control morphs, such as "Arms Front-Back Right" or any other pose morph slider?

https://i.imgur.com/ScHUpgi.png

Could you maybe try resetting them all to their default value before you bake, and tell me if this "fixes" the baking problem? "Fix" is not the right term, I know, but if my intuition is correct then I have a pretty good idea how to fix this for real.

No, I don't. I only use Pose Controls for the Neck and Torso, but I always bake them to Transforms. And I don't use any products such as Pose Architect or the like. But you were absolutely spot on about Arms Front-Back. That was the culprit. Apparently, the pose I applied for the Arm used Control Pose for Arms, which is super odd considering it's from a product and products usually have all the poses baked to Transforms. Since I never use Arms Front-Back, it didn't occur to me to check for that. From now on, I'll always keep my eyes on such shenanigans. Thank you for your amazing tool and great support.

Fairyteller

nlbs said:

Fairyteller said:

nlbs said:

Fairyteller said:

nlbs said:

After the last update. There's a serious problem with the product. For some reason, Right Shoulder and Right Collar reset their positions after applying Magic Pointer to bake to transforms on Genesis 8.1. Same goes for Left and Right Foot.

I can't reproduce it for some reason. It feels to me like it's working as intended but maybe there's something I'm not seeing.

If we take the Right Shoulder for example, do you know of a set of rotation values that is problematic/lost?

Here's the problem in question in detail. I hope this helps.

https://imgur.com/a/GdlNjGp

It helps a ton, thank you.

I think I understand what's happening. Do you by any chance use any of these Pose Control morphs, such as "Arms Front-Back Right" or any other pose morph slider?

https://i.imgur.com/ScHUpgi.png

Could you maybe try resetting them all to their default value before you bake, and tell me if this "fixes" the baking problem? "Fix" is not the right term, I know, but if my intuition is correct then I have a pretty good idea how to fix this for real.

No, I don't. I only use Pose Controls for the Neck and Torso, but I always bake them to Transforms. And I don't use any products such as Pose Architect or the like. But you were absolutely spot on about Arms Front-Back. That was the culprit. Apparently, the pose I applied for the Arm used Control Pose for Arms, which is super odd considering it's from a product and products usually have all the poses baked to Transforms. Since I never use Arms Front-Back, it didn't occur to me to check for that. From now on, I'll always keep my eyes on such shenanigans. Thank you for your amazing tool and great support.

Cheers!

I think I have an idea to somehow make it work even with these controls dialed in. Compatibility with other methods of posing is important to me, I will do some internal testing, see if there's an elegant solution for the best of both worlds.

Have a great day!

Saxa -- SD

Fairyteller said:

For this specific issue, as I wrote in the documentation, twisting rotation values cannot be easily controlled with Magic Pointer since it relies on the Point At system of the engine for performance and ease of use. It's a known limitation of the tool and sadly there's not much I can do about it right now. The system picks a global rotation that aligns the "bone origin to bone end point" vector with the "bone origin to target origin" vector and forces that global rotation to the bone. We cannot expect the twist rotation to keep its value except maybe by changing the twist rotation limits, which is a destructive modification of the rig and does not play well with animation at all.

So sadly I cannot help with this particular problem. My advice would be to use Magic Pointer to quickly draft a directional gesture, bake it, then use other methods to fine tune the bone twisting. Magic Twister can help here, but similarly it does have its own limits (essentially it lets you control the Twist instead of the Side-to-side / Front-to-back rotation but the principle is the same).

 

First thanks for reply. 

I didn't get the impression reading the documentation or the testimonials in this thread this far, that applying Magic Pose to an existing pose would automatically shift the pose without me doing a thing.
Perhaps in my skimming for highlights, i missed that?
Documentation was very well done talking about twist and adjust that separate, which am totally cool with.
I just tried abdomen lower (and then neck lower) and each time it auto-changed the pose.  Like my previous posted images.

Checked the magic pointer parameters and in addition to twist new value, there was a new side-side value, compared to bone: abdomen lower.
Did just uninstall and reinstall this script to make sure i had the latest.

Is that normal?  Or am i just being unlucky here?

What are some you guys doing to work with that?
Seems have to:
(1) pose
(2) apply magic pointer
(3) adjust pose to back to how had wanted to reverse magic-pointer auto shift.
(4) then use applied magic pointer.

Seems like a difficult workflow adding extra steps just to make work.
Especially as plan was to use this alot - over and over.
Seriously love idea of this product and hope I'm just seeing or doing this wrong and someone can point out a workflow that works fast to overcome auto-shifted poses.

Also, I do appreciate your suggestion to draft directional bake, then twist back again, which is essentially workflow above in bullet form, and that these are DS limits.
But i will admit i feel suprised about the need for twisting back.
I never saw this issue in the promo vids.
So guess am really wondering why i seem to be having more of this issue on many poses, which makes me sad.

Which is probably why am rehashing in a wordy way to make sense of this and how common need for re-shift is.

chris_76043936

Hello, 
do you know what could be a reason to have error on default GF8/GM8

2023-07-25 20:34:26.773 Loading script: C:/DAZ 3D/Studio/My Library/scripts/Fairyteller/Magic - Smart Actions For Posing/Magic - Pointer.dse

2023-07-25 20:34:26.872 WARNING: Script Error: Line 230

2023-07-25 20:34:26.873 WARNING: TypeError: Result of expression 'prop.setDefaultValue' [undefined] is not a function.

2023-07-25 20:34:26.873 WARNING: Stack Trace:

<anonymous>()@C:/DAZ 3D/Studio/My Library/scripts/Fairyteller/Magic - Smart Actions For Posing/Magic - Pointer.dse:230

2023-07-25 20:34:26.874 Error in script execution: C:/DAZ 3D/Studio/My Library/scripts/Fairyteller/Magic - Smart Actions For Posing/Magic - Pointer.dse


P.S. I just found you have released a new version .. I will update and see if this is fixed.

nlbs

Saxa -- SD said:

Fairyteller said:

For this specific issue, as I wrote in the documentation, twisting rotation values cannot be easily controlled with Magic Pointer since it relies on the Point At system of the engine for performance and ease of use. It's a known limitation of the tool and sadly there's not much I can do about it right now. The system picks a global rotation that aligns the "bone origin to bone end point" vector with the "bone origin to target origin" vector and forces that global rotation to the bone. We cannot expect the twist rotation to keep its value except maybe by changing the twist rotation limits, which is a destructive modification of the rig and does not play well with animation at all.

So sadly I cannot help with this particular problem. My advice would be to use Magic Pointer to quickly draft a directional gesture, bake it, then use other methods to fine tune the bone twisting. Magic Twister can help here, but similarly it does have its own limits (essentially it lets you control the Twist instead of the Side-to-side / Front-to-back rotation but the principle is the same).

 

First thanks for reply. 

I didn't get the impression reading the documentation or the testimonials in this thread this far, that applying Magic Pose to an existing pose would automatically shift the pose without me doing a thing.
Perhaps in my skimming for highlights, i missed that?
Documentation was very well done talking about twist and adjust that separate, which am totally cool with.
I just tried abdomen lower (and then neck lower) and each time it auto-changed the pose.  Like my previous posted images.

Checked the magic pointer parameters and in addition to twist new value, there was a new side-side value, compared to bone: abdomen lower.
Did just uninstall and reinstall this script to make sure i had the latest.

Is that normal?  Or am i just being unlucky here?

What are some you guys doing to work with that?
Seems have to:
(1) pose
(2) apply magic pointer
(3) adjust pose to back to how had wanted to reverse magic-pointer auto shift.
(4) then use applied magic pointer.

Seems like a difficult workflow adding extra steps just to make work.
Especially as plan was to use this alot - over and over.
Seriously love idea of this product and hope I'm just seeing or doing this wrong and someone can point out a workflow that works fast to overcome auto-shifted poses.

Also, I do appreciate your suggestion to draft directional bake, then twist back again, which is essentially workflow above in bullet form, and that these are DS limits.
But i will admit i feel suprised about the need for twisting back.
I never saw this issue in the promo vids.
So guess am really wondering why i seem to be having more of this issue on many poses, which makes me sad.

Which is probably why am rehashing in a wordy way to make sense of this and how common need for re-shift is.

As the documentation states, for bones that require twisting or bending, you need to apply Magic Twister to them. The script will then create Controllers. Next, you apply Magic Pointer to these Controllers. Pose your character and apply the Magic Pointer again. After this, apply Magic Twister to bake to ther Transforms. If you follow this order correctly, there won't be any issues whatsoever, unless Pose Controls are involved and dialed up. If Pose Controls are involved, you first need to bake them to Transforms before you can use Magic Pointer or Magic Twister. If you don't do this, a 're-shift' will most likely occur.

Let's take Genesis 8 or 8.1 as an example. Use the Magic Pointer on Legs and Arms. For Head, Neck, Pelvis, Abdomen and Chest, use the combination of the Magic Twister and Magic Pointer.

Saxa -- SD

Question: So when you have a character like in pose i showed images of, where waist is side-side and twisted before applying magic-pointer, do you not get a shift after applying magic pointer?
Would you have a chance (or anyone else) to test this quick and say if works?
If not, then my system has an issue despite reinstalling it.

For more completeness:
 am following those each of those steps exactly to the letter.
 I would write flow exactly the same.
Been doing 3d for ages and know the importance of following each step not just carefully - but exactly.  
And do way more advanced stuff than this.  
Have done many-many magic pointers and magic twists to figure out this works.

Described issue I'm having, despite following the recco'd workflow, is happening for more than the odd pose.  Many do work normal without a shift.
So either am using different poses yet than other users, or have a system issue.  
Have followed documentation, tried every which way, including workaround tactics which has helped me with many DS issues.

Also, am not using erc pose controls, as i had other animations issues with those previously.

nlbs

Saxa -- SD said:

Question: So when you have a character like in pose i showed images of, where waist is side-side and twisted before applying magic-pointer, do you not get a shift after applying magic pointer?
Would you have a chance (or anyone else) to test this quick and say if works?
If not, then my system has an issue despite reinstalling it.

For more completeness:
 am following those each of those steps exactly to the letter.
 I would write flow exactly the same.
Been doing 3d for ages and know the importance of following each step not just carefully - but exactly.  
And do way more advanced stuff than this.  
Have done many-many magic pointers and magic twists to figure out this works.

Described issue I'm having, despite following the recco'd workflow, is happening for more than the odd pose.  Many do work normal without a shift.
So either am using different poses yet than other users, or have a system issue.  
Have followed documentation, tried every which way, including workaround tactics which has helped me with many DS issues.

Also, am not using erc pose controls, as i had other animations issues with those previously.

You do not apply Magic Pointer to the waist. Instead, you apply Magic Twister to it. This creates a Controller, to which you then apply Magic Pointer in order to pose the character. Here is a more detailed, step-by-step guide with images.
https://imgur.com/a/j4EKAaM

Saxa -- SD

Thank you so much for clarifying that!  Never clicked that apply Magic Pointer direct to controller-Magic Twist.  Looks awesome doing that.  Tested for 4 waist bones and can live with 2 steps, cause results are cool.  Thanks again.

chris_76043936

Hello, 
I download the lates version and reinstall it to be sure that I'm not making any mistake (tried with Manager and Manual).. but I still have the problem.
If I select any node (example left tight -..  I tested in all figures and shapes and objects).. it gives error and creates only the container.
 Error log:
2023-07-29 11:52:31.371 Loading script: C:/My DAZ 3D Library/Scripts/Fairyteller/Magic - Smart Actions For Posing/Magic - Pointer.dse

2023-07-29 11:52:31.468 WARNING: Script Error: Line 230

2023-07-29 11:52:31.468 WARNING: TypeError: Result of expression 'prop.setDefaultValue' [undefined] is not a function.

2023-07-29 11:52:31.468 WARNING: Stack Trace:

<anonymous>()@C:/My DAZ 3D Library/Scripts/Fairyteller/Magic - Smart Actions For Posing/Magic - Pointer.dse:230

2023-07-29 11:52:31.470 Error in script execution: C:/My DAZ 3D Library/Scripts/Fairyteller/Magic - Smart Actions For Posing/Magic - Pointer.dse

-----

I would appreciate if you can help me solve this. The product looks amazing.
Chris

marble

Hi. I think I totally misunderstood the purpose of this toolset so, unfortunately, I'll request a refund. I was hoping for an improved version of the Active Pose Tool (which has severe limitations) but it isn't. I need to pin bodyparts such as feet and move other parts (such as the hip) without the feet moving. Active Pose sort of does this but poorly. I really hoped this product would be an alternative but, unless I'm missing something, it is not.

Just posting in case anyone else has the same misunderstanding.

nlbs

marble said:

Hi. I think I totally misunderstood the purpose of this toolset so, unfortunately, I'll request a refund. I was hoping for an improved version of the Active Pose Tool (which has severe limitations) but it isn't. I need to pin bodyparts such as feet and move other parts (such as the hip) without the feet moving. Active Pose sort of does this but poorly. I really hoped this product would be an alternative but, unless I'm missing something, it is not.

Just posting in case anyone else has the same misunderstanding.

There's no need to pin anything. You'll be able to pose only the parts you select; nothing else will move if you follow the documentation.

marble

nlbs said:

marble said:

Hi. I think I totally misunderstood the purpose of this toolset so, unfortunately, I'll request a refund. I was hoping for an improved version of the Active Pose Tool (which has severe limitations) but it isn't. I need to pin bodyparts such as feet and move other parts (such as the hip) without the feet moving. Active Pose sort of does this but poorly. I really hoped this product would be an alternative but, unless I'm missing something, it is not.

Just posting in case anyone else has the same misunderstanding.

There's no need to pin anything. You'll be able to pose only the parts you select; nothing else will move if you follow the documentation.

Well I have to disagree. I did as you suggest, moved a body part (pelvis) and the legs and feet followed. In other words, eveything from the pelvis down moved as a block - not in some kind of IK fashion where the movements look natural but more as though the lower body is a single object. I returned it because of that so I can't demonstrate with screen-shots now but if I missed something, perhaps you can explain it for the benefit of others. 

nlbs

marble said:

nlbs said:

marble said:

Hi. I think I totally misunderstood the purpose of this toolset so, unfortunately, I'll request a refund. I was hoping for an improved version of the Active Pose Tool (which has severe limitations) but it isn't. I need to pin bodyparts such as feet and move other parts (such as the hip) without the feet moving. Active Pose sort of does this but poorly. I really hoped this product would be an alternative but, unless I'm missing something, it is not.

Just posting in case anyone else has the same misunderstanding.

There's no need to pin anything. You'll be able to pose only the parts you select; nothing else will move if you follow the documentation.

Well I have to disagree. I did as you suggest, moved a body part (pelvis) and the legs and feet followed. In other words, eveything from the pelvis down moved as a block - not in some kind of IK fashion where the movements look natural but more as though the lower body is a single object. I returned it because of that so I can't demonstrate with screen-shots now but if I missed something, perhaps you can explain it for the benefit of others. 

There's a link to a video on the product's page. Take a look at it. It does a pretty good job explaining and showcasing how the product is supposed to be used. I think you missed everything.

bohemian3

Hiya @marble - I've had great success with the tool and it works as intended, and I'm a big fan of it.  If you want to keep the pelvis and all bones underneath stationary, be sure to select bones above the pelvis (e.g. Spine 1-4).  Remember you can select multiple bones.  Also, be sure to manipulate the target group - not the actual bones themselves.

marble said: I moved a body part (pelvis) and the legs and feet followed. In other words, eveything from the pelvis down moved as a block -

Fairyteller

chris_76043936 said:

Hello, 
I download the lates version and reinstall it to be sure that I'm not making any mistake (tried with Manager and Manual).. but I still have the problem.
If I select any node (example left tight -..  I tested in all figures and shapes and objects).. it gives error and creates only the container.
 Error log:
2023-07-29 11:52:31.371 Loading script: C:/My DAZ 3D Library/Scripts/Fairyteller/Magic - Smart Actions For Posing/Magic - Pointer.dse

2023-07-29 11:52:31.468 WARNING: Script Error: Line 230

2023-07-29 11:52:31.468 WARNING: TypeError: Result of expression 'prop.setDefaultValue' [undefined] is not a function.

2023-07-29 11:52:31.468 WARNING: Stack Trace:

<anonymous>()@C:/My DAZ 3D Library/Scripts/Fairyteller/Magic - Smart Actions For Posing/Magic - Pointer.dse:230

2023-07-29 11:52:31.470 Error in script execution: C:/My DAZ 3D Library/Scripts/Fairyteller/Magic - Smart Actions For Posing/Magic - Pointer.dse

-----

I would appreciate if you can help me solve this. The product looks amazing.
Chris

Hello, I'm awfully sorry for the late reply

Do you still have this issue? Which version of Daz Studio do you use?

chris_76043936

Fairyteller said:

chris_76043936 said:

Hello, 
I download the lates version and reinstall it to be sure that I'm not making any mistake (tried with Manager and Manual).. but I still have the problem.
If I select any node (example left tight -..  I tested in all figures and shapes and objects).. it gives error and creates only the container.
 Error log:
2023-07-29 11:52:31.371 Loading script: C:/My DAZ 3D Library/Scripts/Fairyteller/Magic - Smart Actions For Posing/Magic - Pointer.dse

2023-07-29 11:52:31.468 WARNING: Script Error: Line 230

2023-07-29 11:52:31.468 WARNING: TypeError: Result of expression 'prop.setDefaultValue' [undefined] is not a function.

2023-07-29 11:52:31.468 WARNING: Stack Trace:

<anonymous>()@C:/My DAZ 3D Library/Scripts/Fairyteller/Magic - Smart Actions For Posing/Magic - Pointer.dse:230

2023-07-29 11:52:31.470 Error in script execution: C:/My DAZ 3D Library/Scripts/Fairyteller/Magic - Smart Actions For Posing/Magic - Pointer.dse

-----

I would appreciate if you can help me solve this. The product looks amazing.
Chris

Hello, I'm awfully sorry for the late reply

Do you still have this issue? Which version of Daz Studio do you use?

 Hello Fairyteller

yes, I still have the same problem. I installed it on both of my computers with Daz3D (one Intel and one AMD with rtx 3060) and the problem is the same.
I am using v.4.16.0.3 Pro because my projects are using old ghost lights and v.4.20 is not compatible with them. 

Chris

arhonsw

I am using daz studio version 4.15. Unfortunately the scripts do not work. But it works fine in Daz Studio 4.21. It would be cool to have support for version 4.15.

chris_76043936

arhonsw said:

I am using daz studio version 4.15. Unfortunately the scripts do not work. But it works fine in Daz Studio 4.21. It would be cool to have support for version 4.15.

 

This would explain why I do have error in version 4.16
Somehow 4.2x versions of Daz3D are different. If @Fairyteller can find what the difference is, it would be nice. 
I just don't want to break all my scenes, because I have thousands of them and I don't want to fix the ghost lights in each one of them.

arhonsw

Just wondering, are you doing support for this script for the old version of Daz Studio 4.15 or not?

chris_76043936

I need help with a strange bug.
Using 4.22 and when I use this script (only target, not touching twist), my characters are having strange deformations.
I will appreciate if someone point me what could be wrong.
I am using G8 Male (Lucas8) in this example.
P.S. maybe this could help to find the problem: I did include root(hip) bone inside the control.

Chris