"Go To" poses of "PW Mandrakia Island" messing up my characters
Mr_Fluffkin
Posts: 126
Whenever I use the "Go To" poses of the "PW Mandrakia Island" environment, my characters get messed up. On the first pose I use, the eyes turn black and the skin gets extremly red. I can't even undo it, the figures remain broken till I reload them. And the more poses I apply, the more the character messes up. I tried it with G8 and G8.1, sane result. "Go To" poses of other produts work fine, even from the same artist. Is there anything I can do to avoid it, like disabling the rotation via CTRL + load or smth similar? And where is the right place to report the bug? With a ticket?
Daz 3D is part of 
Connect
DAZ Productions, Inc.
7533 S Center View Ct #4664
West Jordan, UT 84084
Licensing Agreement | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | EULA
© 2024 Daz Productions Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Comments
Actually those Go To poses just change Translation values on XYZ axis of the figure...
As for 'black eyes', that may be the instancing problem as your figure's new position might be far away from World Center, you may change Instancing Optimization value in Render Settings pane, use Memory or Speed.
As for 'red skin', that probably results from the 'lighting change' after your figure's position changes. You may check and tweak the lights setup as needed.
It isn't just that theya re far from the origin? Do they stay that way if you move them back to (0,0,0) - that is, zero out the trasnlation on the figure, and hip if there are any?
Nah, that's definetly no lighting issue. The skin turns completely red, like the figure has been in the sun for years. All white in the eyes turns black and if I apply more of the poses, even the hair gets completly insane. I can use an empty scene, load a G8 or G8.1 basic model, apply one of the poses(without loading the environment) and the figure is broken till I reload it.
Yes, the figure stays broken if I move it back or do anything else with it.There seems to be no way to revert it, all I can do is reload it and move it manually. I can't tell what the Go To pose are doing, it seems like they move/rotate more than just the hip bone. It kinda looks like the eyeballs and the bones of the hair get rotated as well, at least that's my assumption. But what about the skin shader then? I have no idea how the pose is able to change my shader. At first I thought it's because of my Iray to PBR convertion on my character, or because I used a G8.1 figur and the pose only works on G8 or G9. That's why I tried it in an empty scene with G8 and G8.1 base models, but still the same issue. Something is really wrong with these poses. And i tried several other "Go To" poses from other PW products as well, only the Mandrakia ones are bugged. All of them.
No 'real bug' at all on my side, the pose preset is also very simple as I said... You may see the figure will be place to the postion where is far far away from the world center. Eyes turned black with Auto instancing, switching to Memory is one way out. As for the skin issue, we probably have to check the scene to find out the culprit.
You're right, even the red skin gets removed if I set it to memory. But I have to switch it after each pose apply. If it's set to memory and I apply another pose of the set, the figure is messed up again. I have to set it to something different and back to memory and it works again. This is mad annoying, I never encountered that problem before. All the pose does is set x,y, + z, how the heck is this messing up my figure? And why doesn't it happen with any other pose or go to pose set?
Edit:
Here's a screenshot of how the red skin looks like:
Before pose apply:
After pose apply:
Well, I would say 'Instancing' issue is pretty common especially when the figure is far away from the Origin no matter that is set by you or a pose preset. The reason why you did not have such an issue from other 'Go to poses' may be that the figure is 'not far enough' from the Origin in other 'smaller' scene. PW's scene is pretty big...
For most of the cases, you just need to press Ctrl + 9 then Ctrl + 0 to refresh 'instancing', that'll be fine.
Hmm... I rarely see skin issue in terms of instancing. Not sure but are you using any Geoshell or LIE on the figure ?
So it's just the distance from the centre, that "forces" Iray to change it's "interpretation" of instancing, which leads to a more "inaccurate" rendering of the textures? Wouldn't the distance to the camera/view be much more usefull? Anyway, thanks for the info and resolution how to fix it, I would have never imagined that the instancing is the reason.
Oh and I didn't used any LIE or geoshell on the figure, only the https://www.daz3d.com/1-click-pbrskin. Most characters I tried with the poses are converted to PBR with this tool, but I'm very sure I even had the red skin issue on the default G8.1 basic figure.
When you change 'instance optimization' Iray recalculates the centre and thereby removes the error from the too large numbers.
No, it's the floating point calculations that are used.
The distances beween the layers of the eye are very small, and when one takes the character far away from the origin (0,0,0), the accuracy of the calculations is not enough any more to keep the small differences between the layers. The problem exists even in heavy duty professional programs.
It's like when one is adding 0,0000001 to 10000000 and the sum is 10000000 because one only has 8 digits available => Small detail is lost.
Iray Instancing - Memory can increase the precision of rendering and reduce artifacts that result from self-intersection in terms of geometry, as the instanced geometry will only exist once rather than being 'flatterend and duplicated' in VARAM with Speed or Auto mode. As for the black eyes issue, it mostly relates to Iris, Cornea, Sclera surfaces, where the duplicated instances are overlapped.
As for skin issue, I never thought of PBRSkin shader is the culprit. With Translucenly and Transmission Enable 'On', skin turn red (mostly transmitted color I suppose). I don't know why for the time being...
any change to the setting will work, it isn't related to specific features of one mode.
But actually they handle the geometry instances in different way, as per the guidance from iray development. As for the 'black artifacts' and PBRSkin 'transmission' issue, only Memory works...
Thanks again for the informations, this is really helpful. Is there a specific xyz value where things become critical, to keep an eye on? Everything I've heard about Iray Instancing so far, has been UltraScenery related. It would be very nice if artists would mention this for far distance poses in the product descriptions. I've spent quite a bit of time in DS and I'm familar with most of the settings, but I would never have figured that out. I guess a real Iray greenhorn will not slightly understand what is happening to his character. Good that we have experts like you guys on the forums, very appreciated!
Put the environment (buildings, props, etc), cameras and lights into a group, which can easily be moved as whole and keep the characters close to the origin.
Here's a useful script I use to get around that problem https://sites.google.com/site/mcasualsdazscripts10/mcjgoto000?authuser=0
You select the object/figure you are focusing on, run the script and it moves the entire scene so that figure is at 0,0,0 world coordinates. If you load a default null node into the scene beforehand, you can select that and run the script again later to bring everything back to its orignal position.