Will products already owned work in AI Studio?

AndrewJJP

alaltacc said:

Richard Haseltine said:

sausagemix_d9e00246a7 said:

Lol wasnt AI supposed to DeMoCratiZe art??? Looks like its just another new pipeline to siphon money off people with a passing interest in art in order to pay ever increasing fees to make it. Reminds me of streaming vs cable. In year or 2 the costs of these products/subscriptions will cost as much as having adobe or zbrush. And for what? an amalgamation of other peoples styles.

There is a free tier, though. Whether it will get more free content in futue I don't know, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me.

DAZ servers (even if they are rented servers) cost money (very costly graphic cards, electricity, etc). I can understand charging for the use. My problem is that it looks like we would need to buy every product again (or at least to buy an extension of the license) to use them in the AI generator.

I can understand that there are licensing issues even with the PAs (when they put their products for sale there was no provision for creating LoRas out of them), but for someone that already uses Stable Diffusion (a lot) in my own computer with all the LoRas, Controlnets and whatnots on one hand; and that have spent a good chunk of money building a Daz library to use inside Daz on the other hand (I'm  even a Daz+ subscriber), it's really really hard to pay extra to use these (same already paid for) assets in the online AI generator. So, apart from my view that the AI shoud have been integrated in Daz Studio instead of being used as a stand-alone product based on Stable Diffusion (and vastly inferior to a local installation of SD), there's also the frustration of not being able to use the products that I already have without paying extra.

This has been updated with AI provisions. But do they apply retrospectively?

https://www.daz3d.com/eula#general_license

I bought most of my content before AI was a thing. Surely the rules I accepted at that time are what counts? Otherwise Daz could turn round and move all my assets to a subscription model within Studio! I am not a lawyer, so maybe common sense doesn't apply here, and Daz can indeed change the rules underneath us?

So as an example, I didn't agree not to make a Victoria 7 LoRA back when I bought her, so what's to stop me now? And even if there is something if I don't share it, does it matter? Who would know?

I should say, I'm done with AI,because but I find the process boring, but I also find the technology interesting, and I am curious about these things...

alaltacc

@AndrewJJP I agree with you and I said the same thing when they changed the license: the "new" license shouldn't apply to products acquired before the change. 

AndrewJJP

alaltacc said:

@AndrewJJP I agree with you and I said the same thing when they changed the license: the "new" license shouldn't apply to products acquired before the change. 

My inexpert reading of the law is that one party cannot unilaterally change terms of the licence unless the licence explicitly states that.

And Daz has, in the latest version at least, said they can do that:

 "User acknowledges and agrees that DAZ may update, amend, and/or modify this Agreement from time to time and that, by continuing to use DAZ’s website and services, the User agrees to be bound by all such updates, amendments, and/or modifications."

I expect that's common practice. I don't see why a company wouldn't do it, because let's face it, nobody reads this stuff and it's not like you have a choice even if you do...

https://time.com/3445092/free-wifi-first-born-children/

Assuming that it was like this before, then we all agreed that they can charge us more money to use content we already own at any time they want to. They could decide to take away all your conent I think? Not that they would of course!

But the fact remains, that for those of us that know how to train a LoRA can do that. And for non-commercial use, that might be OK? I don't know. Even if not, nobody will know.

FWIW, I think the generated content is the stuff you make, nothing to do with AI, which shows how much I can be relied on in these matters! And does the licence even mention AI anywhere? I just know so little about legal stuff, there isn't even any point in me looking!

Cerrag

Just my $.02 but I Sooo *hope that DAZ will go the way of integrating what we user's have already bought, with their new AI system as that has been a HUGE investment for some of us.  And pairing our massive collections with AI would enable a lot of us to use any/all of the models we've already purchased in ways that only AI can make happen, for the speed and randomess.  Plus, how many customers would feel much less guilty for continuing to add to their collections if they knew that *now, creating art with that newly purchased model was just a click away??   Plus it just seems right to allow people to use what they already own, as loyal customers.  I think if they want to charge extra, they should do it on the AI plan itself, but not by making customers pay yet again to use models they already own.

FSMCDesigns

In my mind and experience so far with AI, I think the image to image option for users to enhance ther renders will be more beneficial than adding models to the AI generator

linvanchene

I expected this thread to have 20 pages of opinions by now. Might as well add my thoughts at this point...

 

What is the future value of a 3D license?

How would Daz 3D customers feel if Daz AI Studio subscribers would get access to thousands of product licenses in the form of LoRA for a monthly subscription fee?

Limited access

I spent money on 3D product licenses because the access to them was limited by the requirement of paying a reasonably priced license fee.

Commercial Use

A key factor of paying a fee was the permission to use the assets for commercial purposes.

 

Is the value of 3D models lowered by AI alternatives?

If every subscriber of Daz AI Studio by default would get access to all available LoRA this would reduce the value of the 3D licences of the same models.

How many images with the face of Victoria can be uploaded to the internet until people get tired of the same look?

 

What is a reasonable price for a LoRA?

The key argument should remain that customers pay a license fee to be able to use licensed assets commercially.

The actual price needs to reflect the production time and the potential numbers of buyers.

 

Should allready purchased product licenses automatically include access to LoRA?

No.

• It takes time render a reasonable number of images to train LoRA.
• It takes time to properly train the LoRA with keywords and triggers.
• It takes time to properly test LoRA
• It may take less time to update existing LoRA for future base models.

Fair discounts?

• The price of LoRA could be reduced for those who purchased a standard license of the 3D model.
• Updates of the same LoRA for future Stable Diffusion base models could be sold at a reasonable discount for those who purchased previous licenses.

generalgameplaying

Inpainting and modification with some promptability would also be interesting.

 

"Put this in the rain." - Such would be even cooler, if it somehow could use products you own, but that's yet again another of those beasts (arranging 3D assets from your library, possibly an interactive assistant).

firewarden

Love the idea of being able to use this for mock-ups, story boards, etc. Being able to use my content already purchased from Daz would be a huge reason to buy more. Making me start from scratch would definitely drive me further away from the Daz store. Huge disappointment already that I can't access my content from the Daz AI Studio.

WendyLuvsCatz

every AI I use starts with a render or photograph

be it in ControlNet or what ever other image input means it has so DAZAI needs image input at the very least to be useful to me in any way

leo04

I am looking through this thread as I would very much like to use the content I have already purchased.  I notice in the premium package a future functionality called Image to Image.

I am wondering if that could mean taking an image of a set or environment along with an image of a character and creating something that way.

I could render those things much quicker. 

If I could combine a set or say, the interior of a castle, then add images of my characters, in different poses or not, would the AI then combine them into scenes depicting them walking or running or doing something defined by the prompts?

(I am a newbie to this stuff so I have to ask as I have no idea)

Richard Haseltine

leo04 said:

I am looking through this thread as I would very much like to use the content I have already purchased.  I notice in the premium package a future functionality called Image to Image.

I am wondering if that could mean taking an image of a set or environment along with an image of a character and creating something that way.

I could render those things much quicker. 

If I could combine a set or say, the interior of a castle, then add images of my characters, in different poses or not, would the AI then combine them into scenes depicting them walking or running or doing something defined by the prompts?

(I am a newbie to this stuff so I have to ask as I have no idea)

Image-to-image is a planned feature but is not yet available.

FSMCDesigns

leo04 said:

I am looking through this thread as I would very much like to use the content I have already purchased.  I notice in the premium package a future functionality called Image to Image.

I am wondering if that could mean taking an image of a set or environment along with an image of a character and creating something that way.

I could render those things much quicker. 

If I could combine a set or say, the interior of a castle, then add images of my characters, in different poses or not, would the AI then combine them into scenes depicting them walking or running or doing something defined by the prompts?

(I am a newbie to this stuff so I have to ask as I have no idea)

Not sure how DAZ will implement it, but usually image to image involves taking an existing image and either using it for a prompt to create new images influenced by the original, or taking an existing image and then using AI to enhance it. Technically with many other AI apps, you can load an image you created of a character and then use AI to create the background, or use another image of a posed character to influence the pose of the character in your main image.