Why can't DAZ prevent Duplicate Formula problems with products they sell?
mambanegra
Posts: 580
There are easy ways to prevent this. I can't blame DAZ for letting other site's characters have overlapping dial names or whatever it is that is causing duplicate formula, but they certainly can create a database of every file in every package sold here and flag them when a new product is loaded that causes this. But...they don't.
https://www.daz3d.com/mso-faye-hd-for-genesis-9-feminine has morphs that share a common name as https://www.daz3d.com/fe-nisa-hd-for-genesis-9
I can't understand why FeSoul's Nisa has an output called Genesis9:/data/Daz%203D/Genesis%209/Base/Morphs/FeSoul/Nisa/FE_Nisa_body_cbs_thigh_x90n_r.dsf#MSO_Faye_body_cbs_thigh_x90n_r?value But DAZ could have caught this with some simple verification scripts and basic DB that catalogs this sort of info.
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Comments
HI,Im sorry to get issues to you,Daz Pa want to fix them issues,But they can`t get accessed to upgrade or fixed file without Daz tech help,
If you can give me Email,I will fixed issues,and send it for you.
The mail in site is ok. just make me few day time please.Thank you again.
Accidents happen, even with all the testing that we do.
Looks like FeSoul is submitting a fix right away.
We do check to make sure that duplicate ID don't happen, but sometimes they slip through.
All we can do then is submit a fix to Daz to push out to DIM.
Rest assured that this is a rare occurrence that all PAs make an effort to avoid.
After fighting with Duplicate Formula errors for most of Genesis 8, I decided to eliminate them completely with Genesis 9 by only buying Core Figures and maelwenn. It's worked except for those Vinme Morphs that kept clashing with Zev0.
Does this error imply use of MSO Faye in the creation of Fesoul's Nisa? MSO Faye is not a merchant resource. Why is it referenced in an Fesoul character morph? How does this happen?
I don't have those characters. But it may just be that each PA added a corrective for their characters that just happened to have the same name, causing the duplicate formula. The fix is to change the name for the corrective. This is why DAZ encourages PAs to name their morphs with their initials first to avoid this issue.
The original post stated "FeSoul's Nisa has an output called Genesis9:/data/Daz%203D/Genesis%209/Base/Morphs/FeSoul/Nisa/FE_Nisa_body_cbs_thigh_x90n_r.dsf#MSO_Faye_body_cbs_thigh_x90n_r?value". I'm trying to understand how an MSO_Faye tag would come to be on an FE_Nisa product morph.
I think the OPs point is that DAZ have the data necessary to catch and fix certain errors like this one before release, using scripts, so customers and customer service won't have to deal with them after release.
Perhaps a simple mistake in setting the link up, there are a lot of hidden morphs and they display with "greyed out" labels so if something was typed in the filter box on Parameters to isolate them it would be easy to grab the wrong cbs_thigh_x90n_r and drag it into the Property Hiearchy. of course that may well mean that the correction isn't working as it should, so a further wrinkle to be checked by support.
If anyone needs Nisa's repair and upgrade package, please talk to me directly for the forum. It brings everyone inconvenience, and I will post a repair package for everyone who buys. Thanks!
If you submit an update to PASS the base item can be fixed, which will reach everyone ragardless of whether or not they see this thread.
The same kind of issue happens if you have more than 1 MagicBrush character, no matter which. I submitted some ticket over a month ago, still no fix in sight though.
I experienced same issue with Magic Brush products
These were on promotion some time ago
https://www.daz3d.com/mb-yomi-hd-for-genesis-9-feminine
https://www.daz3d.com/mb-carmel-hd-for-genesis-9-feminine
I submitted a support ticket, I had uninstalled both products, still waiting for a fix.
It would be wise if the Product Artist test the other products he/her has in the store, if there is any issue, then is time to correct it, also as a token of appreciation it would be nice if the PA may offer a free item of choice, as this situation should never occur. is better to double check the code and make a deep test before puting the product(s) available for sale in the store.
Thanks I will update it in pass system
This isn't your standard Duplicate Formula issue, but it's also not a new issue.
Basically content makers are copying controllers and correctives from one product and pasting them into another, and all they are doing is changing the file names.
Yep, they are making a total mess of their own products.
Magic Brush has added problems as they are using the beta, which is adding a hexadecimal identifier to every file it saves.
Carmel has a problem with some of the Mat files but works fine other wise.
I don't have access to Yomi but from what I've seen here it looks like 3 files were copied from Carmel, and thanks to the hex codes it's a lot more complicated than just changing the internal names from Carmel to Yomi.
Not sure what you mean. I just did a search & replace in the file, and Yomi works fine for me now.
Changing the names just means the character wont give you any DF errors, but those three files wont work.
WHY????
Because the formula that links them to the body morph is coded with Carmel's hex code, you need to replace it with the correct hex code for Yomi.
I am fairly upset that DAZ does not protect its customers from buying semi -finished or missed products. I have a long list of products that produce a lot of duplicate formula ... Error. Is the inability to carry out reasonable quality control or is the ignorance?
Vo Hyman HD
MB Anezka HD
MB una HD
Vo Fay HD
Vo Mariko HD
MB Ines HD
I can only urgently warn against buying Magic Brush and Vootw products, how to see the list. And as I said, DAZ seems not care.
What I do (and no, this isn't an excuse for putting out subpar products) but if I really want to work with a character, I'll place it in an isolated content folder, clear out everything else, export just the character, and then re-import it as a single slider. If it's HD, I use my slider along with their HD morphs.
I have to say one of them (at least...) most likely just did as you said with isolated or separate content set or folders ... then they didn't get duplicate errors reported but the errors did exist. You know what, normally we see duplicate ID errors from different vendors.. while in their case, the duplicate ID errors come from the characters just made by themselves...
I never bought a thing from them but only helped with a trouble-shooting months ago for a guy in here, found duplicate formula errors from five characters they made ~
Were these ever fixed for the duplicate codes? I have both, and if I remember right, I uninstalled both for the double ID error. I had put in a ticket, and the reply was uninstall 1. I don't have both installed simultaneously.
It was eventually fixed for Yomi, I think. I got the error for a long time, after installing both Yomi and Carmel. Then I finally got an update for one of them and the error went away. I won't buy any more of Magic Brush's characters, though. It's a shame, because some of them look nice. But I depise error codes which increase loading time.
One from DAZ support also said that he tested a product I reported in a clean library, if that's what DAZ does in general, it's no wonder they don't catch these issues.
Yeah, with PAs who've had repeated Duplicate Formula errors, their stuff should be tested in a library with all the other figures from that PA. Just to reduce this problem even a little bit.
Get used to it. We're two years into Genesis 9, and it's still happening. So, all the headaches and lessons from Genesis 8 did nothing to change the testing protocols or practices. Fortunately, Daz-Deals allows me to hide the offenders to avoid absentmindedly purchasing.
It could potentially be corrected at loading time.
If a later character is loaded into the base character with a formula duplicating one already loaded into the character, a suffix could automatically be added to the later formula name - and potentially automatically saved with that name. If the check is there (and it is), there is already sufficient information in the program (DS) to automatically identify where the fix is needed and then to create a fix on the fly. Shame it's not done. I know there will be those who say 'It's not that easy..', and I have to respond: 'Well, actually, where and when better to correct the error - assuming you do really want a good user experience?'. Correct it while there is only one character in error to deal with as a new character is first loaded after adding it to the base character. It will take a bit of knowledge of the loading process and file structures, but it can be done. And probably should be.
There is a small downside. If you share a .duf file containing a corrected character with someone who didn't have the duplicate formula error, it won't find the correct files. I have to ask, how often does sharing duf files of duplicate formula error characters with other people happen compared to the times a duplicate formula error happen? I suspect it happens much less frequently with far fewer negative consequences than permitting formula errors to propagate.
Regards,
Richard
May I say that it's a major fail of QC before releasing anything ?
Since G9, duplicate formulaes are exploding. I had some with G8, probably from other vendors. With G9 it's unbearable, with enormous loading times.
If it is a comnflict between two differnt products, which is usually the case, then I cannot really agree with that.
How old is your DS? Dupliate Formulas have pretty much stopped having a severe impact on load time for several vesions.
This is my opinion: If both products sold in the Daz store, then I think Daz has some responsibility to be sure the newly added product does not conflict with products they already sell, BEFORE putting the new product in the store. Why does it have to fall to users to discover these problems AFTER buying them? And then users have to submit tickets and wait an indeterminate time for a fix (that might never come). PAs that continue to deliver products like this should be educated by Daz so they can do better, or they should be purged from the vendor list.
That's right as Richard said. Since a certain version of 4.21 (IIRC...), DS set a very solid mechanism to prevent duplicate url when creating and saving morph assets. As long as vendors (at least in this store) follow the standard workflow, there shouldn'be duplicate errors anymore since then. However, there're always some vendors who'd like to go for shortcut or detour the safe workflow... e.g. directly modify DSF files ( not correctly but wrongly ! ) etc.. so that's why folks still see such issues occur...