I think the Daz camera should have a "surface" so you can load a transparency image onto it.

RexRed

I think the Daz camera should have a "surface" so you can load a transparency image onto it.

nemesis10

RexRed said:

I think the Daz camera should have a "surface" so you can load a transparency image onto it.

Since it is painfuly easy to create a primitive plane, position it, apply a pattern with opacity on the surface of the plane and parent it to a camera (as scores of products have done), it might be redundant.  One really cool one is https://www.daz3d.com/sliver-of-light

RexRed

nemesis10 said:

RexRed said:

I think the Daz camera should have a "surface" so you can load a transparency image onto it.

Since it is painfuly easy to create a primitive plane, position it, apply a pattern with opacity on the surface of the plane and parent it to a camera (as scores of products have done), it might be redundant.  One really cool one is https://www.daz3d.com/sliver-of-light

I appreciate your response to this inquiry Nemesis10 and thank you for your response, and your emissive transparencies are very nice!

I have made a point here in this forum that it is not painfully easy or even possible to overlay an image "precisely" in front of the camera's lens.

How far "exactly" in front of the camera is the lens? You do not have an answer for that.

When the camera is at 0x, 0y and 0z the lens is at an undetermined distance in the -z direction from the world center.

So, placing an image at a precise distance in front of the lens i.e. on the surface of the lens is, "impossible".

 An image that would curve and distort with the surface and DOF of the lens itself.

A plane in front of the lens does not attribute the lens properties, on the contrary its properties are static and independent or contrary to that of the lens' surface.

I am not much studied about a camera lens because it is a complex thing and I am sort of new to photography as a whole. But I am sure that a plane in front of the lens is not the same thing as an image directly on the lens' surface.

I have spent many hours trying to align planes "exactly" to the surface of the Daz camera's lens and it is "impossible". As impossible as impossible can get.

A plane does not warp and bend to the camera's field of view. I am not sure if I am saying that right but that is the crux of this request.

We do not have a way of placing an image perfectly and precisely on the surface of the lens, so it mimics, bends and warps with the camera’s own complex and unique predetermined field of view.

A depth canvas rendered by the camera cannot be brought back into Daz and overlaid with the camera’s field of view with precise congruency with the scene, not even with a plane.  

I know because I have spent many hours in futile attempts trying this very thing and it is simply not possible.

Try placing a transparent depth map of a render on a plane's surface in front of the camera and you will find that no matter how you position it, it will not warp and align to the camera's current render settings. 

Thanks for any input into this inquiry peeps!

RexRed

I assume that having "dynamic" surface image options on the lens would also facilitate true and accurate lens flairs as well that contour to the scene with absolute precision. 

The lens surface could be set to respond to incoming light as well with secondary reflective layers.

When you turn a camera towards a light source it should create flairs...
Perhaps we need a new camera in Daz Studio, Sony makes some nice ones! 

Or simply add this new feature optionally (off by default) to the current Daz camera, imagine the possibilities! 

I am aware that you can use plane surfaces to "simulate" lens flairs in Daz Studio but, once again, it is not the same thing.

Perhaps bloom could also incorporate into the lens surface so these are not flat digital effects but instead, optical effects.

Pre-rendered and not post-rendered...

Imagine lens transparency products that you can offset, scale and reposition, the possibilities are endless.

This would also cut down on the plane clutter in scenes and the surface image would have perfect parallel alignment with the camera lens.

Photoshop brushes could be loaded and perhaps edited directly on the camera lens. 

Lens images will not completely replace gobos and plane transparencies but it will augment that process.

Lens images would need to scale with render settings.

nemesis10

I don't think the lenses in Daz Studio exactly follow the physics of geometry that a physical lens has so that sort of distortion is minimal. I think what you are seeing is the effect that in the real world a "normal" lens was meant to correct. You are literally seeing the distortion that depth of field is causing.  If that wasn't true then any "surface" placed on the camera would inherit the distortion of the lens thus not solving your problem.  Instead the problem is one of geometry. If your plane is close to the camera, you get minimal distortion and if it is close to the subject, you get maximal distortion. I should mention that this is the premise of eyeglasses; your cornea is physically distorted and a piece of glass or plastic corrects the light path and focal length to return it to normal to give undistorted vision.  Here is a rather intense description of a normal lens (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_lens) but this diagram is perhaps more useful:  in the diagram, the two blue bars and one red bar have the same length.  We see an optical illusion because we get barrel distortion and pin cushion distortion at long and short focal lengths.  There is, however, an area where the lines converge with minimal distortion of the subject which is the range a normal or standard lens works.  To quote Nikon:

Standard Lens

FX format approx. 50 – 60mm / DX format approx. 35mm

Standard lenses are popular as they are closest to the angle of view we humans see. These lenses have minimal distortion, which can be flattering to the subject. They tend to use large apertures and allow a lot of light to enter the lens which makes them fast in low light conditions. Large apertures (f/1.8 – f/1.4) also produce a pleasing out-of-focus effect to the background which concentrates the attention of the viewer on the subject. Standard lenses are the popular choice for a wide range of photography including portraiture, nature and low light situations where the photographer can not use a flash or is looking to capture the scene with available light.

So, in the case of that product that I linked to, the creator attached a plane to a light at a very precise distance (a "normal" distance) which allows the light to pass through to project a design like a slit or venetian blinds. There are a few vendors who have created such products such as https://www.daz3d.com/kacc-character-cameras-for-genesis-8 or https://www.daz3d.com/iray-ghost-projector-lights or especially https://www.daz3d.com/marshian-light-projection-system-for-iray which looks exactly like what you are looking for (and it's on sale!).

WendyLuvsCatz

in iClone this is called Image Layer

I am sure some clever person could build something in Shader Mixer which will adjust to the camera settings as cameras are also shaders and AFAIK lights also in regards to how the render engine works

I am not that person

that said, I do it easily manually in Carrara all the time, the reason I don't in DAZ studio is that one cannot enable surfaces to not recieve or produce shadows in iray, it is possible in 3Delight

being a PBR engine is no excuse as Octane can do this

RexRed

nemesis10 said:

If that wasn't true then any "surface" placed on the camera would inherit the distortion of the lens thus not solving your problem. 

The reverse is my issue, a plane does not inherit the attributes that are unique to the surface of the lens.

The surface of the lens carries the unique and congruent attributes of the camera's render settings, where attributing the exact camera settings to the precision of the camera's lens surface to a plane is impossible in Daz. 

RexRed

Nemesis wrote: If your plane is close to the camera, you get minimal distortion and if it is close to the subject, you get maximal distortion.

Comment: the problem here is that "close to the camera" is not a precise term X distance from the lens.

But Daz does not provide us with precise measurements to the lens of the camera.

When you enter in very infinitesimal amount and rounds those numbers automatically and constantly hides long decimal numbers.

But I think what you are saying is if I can get the plane at the very closest possible distance to the lens and the closest resolution as possible to the match the lens it should have the same distortion effect as the lens.

RexRed

It seems that just puitting a shiny transparency plane in front of a Daz camera will not create the intricate phenomenon that is lens flares.

Copilot:

Lens flares are fascinating optical phenomena that occur when non-image forming light enters the lens and hits the camera’s film or digital sensor. 

The shapes of these flares are influenced by several factors: Aperture Shape and Size: The shape of the lens diaphragm (aperture) often determines the polygonal shape of the flare. For example, a hexagonal aperture will produce hexagonal flares.

Angle of Light: The angle at which light enters the lens can affect the appearance and intensity of the flare.

Internal Reflections: Light can bounce off various surfaces within the lens, such as lens elements, filters, or even the camera’s sensor, creating complex flare patterns.

These factors combine to produce the unique and sometimes artistic shapes seen in lens flares. 

Modeling a camera’s internal structure to recreate lens flare effects is a fascinating and ambitious project! Here are some steps and considerations to help you get started:

1. Understand Camera Components: Familiarize yourself with the key components of a camera, such as the lens elements, aperture, sensor, and any coatings or filters. This knowledge will help you accurately model the internal structure.

2. 3D Modeling Software: Use software like Blender or Daz Studio to create the 3D models of the camera components. You can start by modeling the lens elements and arranging them in the correct order.

3. Optical Properties: Pay attention to the optical properties of each component. For example, lens elements have specific refractive indices, and coatings can affect light transmission and reflection. You can use shaders and materials in your 3D software to simulate these properties.

4. Light Simulation: Use ray tracing or other light simulation techniques to model how light interacts with the camera’s internal components. This will help you recreate the complex reflections and refractions that lead to lens flares.

5. Post-Processing: Consider using post-processing effects to enhance the realism of the lens flares. Many 3D software packages offer built-in tools or plugins for creating lens flare effects.

6. Reference Materials: Look for reference materials and tutorials on camera modeling and optical simulations. There are many resources available online that can provide guidance and inspiration.

Comment: Or, there is this: https://www.daz3d.com/epic-props-dynamic-lens-flare-starburst-for-iray ;

(I am wondering if the transparencies in this product have that issue with Iray and not being totally transparent across the latest Daz versions.)

nemesis10

https://www.daz3d.com/fsl-easy-lens-flare-bokeh

nemesis10

I saw this too which uses the apropriate distance ratios: https://www.daz3d.com/vyk-in-scene-vignettes  The 1:1 is the ratio of the normal lens.