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Clothing JCMs and Morph Mirroring - What am I doing wrong?

GatorGator Posts: 1,296
edited September 27 in Daz Studio Discussion

I thought I've done this before, but now for the life of me I can't do it and have wasted hours trying.  The point is of course to only model one side saving a lot of work (as well as being nice & symmetrical).

In this case, it's with pJCMCollarUp_50_L.  I modeled the right, that works fine.  When I try to create the morph for the left, I thought I can just use the R side morph I made (.OBJ).  Use Morph Loader Pro, change the name from pJCMCollarUp_50_R to pJCMCollarUp_50_L, and most importantly change Morph Mirroring to X: Swap.  (Other settings in screen grab.)

You can see the R side morph looks good, bun when I raise the shoulder on the L, the right side is moving up.

When I did it before and it worked, only difference I believe was I worked L to R.  What am I doing wrong?

 

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Post edited by Gator on

Comments

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244

    I tried doing this JCM mirroring a few weeks ago, and I couldn't get it to work either. My technique was like yours.

  • MadaMada Posts: 1,991
    edited September 27

    Something to try - find the morph in the property hierarchy and change the scalar from positive to negative or vice versa - maybe that will fix it :)

    Post edited by Mada on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244

    What is the scaler? What does it do?

  • GatorGator Posts: 1,296

    Mada said:

    Something to try - find the morph in the property hierarchy and change the scalar from positive to negative or vice versa - maybe that will fix it :)T 

    Thanks fort the suggestion Mada, I read that in another forum post but for the life of me can't find that either.  You mean the min/max here?  

     

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  • GatorGator Posts: 1,296
    edited September 28

    barbult said:

    I tried doing this JCM mirroring a few weeks ago, and I couldn't get it to work either. My technique was like yours.

    What's really driving me nuts is that I've done it before, and it did work.  Was the previous version of Daz, now I'm on the latest (4.22.0.16) 

    Post edited by Gator on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244

    Gator said:

    barbult said:

    I tried doing this JCM mirroring a few weeks ago, and I couldn't get it to work either. My technique was like yours.

    What's really driving me nuts is that I've done it before, and it did work.  Was the previous version of Daz, now I'm on the latest (4.22.0.16) 

    The latest is 4.22.0.19, but I doubt it that makes a difference.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244

    Gator said:

    Mada said:

    Something to try - find the morph in the property hierarchy and change the scalar from positive to negative or vice versa - maybe that will fix it :)T 

    Thanks fort the suggestion Mada, I read that in another forum post but for the life of me can't find that either.  You mean the min/max here?  

     

    She said Property Hierarchy, not parameter settings. Property Hierarchy is a whole different pane (tab). It is huge and complex.

  • GatorGator Posts: 1,296

    barbult said:

    Gator said:

    Mada said:

    Something to try - find the morph in the property hierarchy and change the scalar from positive to negative or vice versa - maybe that will fix it :)T 

    Thanks fort the suggestion Mada, I read that in another forum post but for the life of me can't find that either.  You mean the min/max here?  

     

    She said Property Hierarchy, not parameter settings. Property Hierarchy is a whole different pane (tab). It is huge and complex.

    Found it.  But I can't set anything.  There's one value highlighted but I tried them all.

     

  • MadaMada Posts: 1,991
    edited September 28

    It might not be the solution but this is what I would try first :)

    Put parameter dials into edit mode (right click in window)
    Right click on the morph and select Show in Property Hierarchy.


    Expand with the dropdown until you find Scalar - click on it and then you’ll be able to adjust the numbers


    To see the effect make sure you have the morph activated by posing the figure

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    Post edited by Mada on
  • GatorGator Posts: 1,296

    barbult said:

    Gator said:

    Mada said:

    Something to try - find the morph in the property hierarchy and change the scalar from positive to negative or vice versa - maybe that will fix it :)T 

    Thanks fort the suggestion Mada, I read that in another forum post but for the life of me can't find that either.  You mean the min/max here?  

     

    She said Property Hierarchy, not parameter settings. Property Hierarchy is a whole different pane (tab). It is huge and complex.

    Found it.  But I can't set anything.  There's one value highlighted but I tried them all.

     

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  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244

    Does the morph have to be saved before doing this?

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,986
    edited September 28

    @barbult

    Remember that you ever posted an issue of importing OBJ with Invert +/- option doesn't work any more ?  I thought that might be relevant... however I tested fixing pJCMs on a Genesis 8 figure by using Mirroring > Swap option, it did work ~~ Then, I scratched my head ~~ It doesn't make sense !

    BTW, pJCMs on conformed Wearables are triggered by Auto Follow, there's no controller on them, so there's no Scalar settings either ~~ The cases are different ...

    Edit: I only have a backup of 4.21.0.5, I tried with it but no avail either...

    Post edited by crosswind on
  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,986

    barbult said:

    Does the morph have to be saved before doing this?

    Nope... I never had to do this before while Mirroring worked all well ~~

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244

    Now that you reminded me, I do remember that import invert bug. I never submitted a help request about it, but I will do that now.

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,986

    Thank you barbult !

    Well, I further had some tests with quite a few items (Props, Werables...). I have to say Mirroring options DO work but only on 100% symmetrical items as far as I test... Typical symmetrical items are: primitives, shoes, and clothing / accessories / props that were designed and made as symmetrical, etc. Typical asymmetrical items are: the garments made with Marvelous Designer without symmetrical retopology... even if remeshed, Mirroting won't work on them, and items that were designed and made as asymmetrical... yada yada.

    Most of the time I just use Attenuate By options in MLP because I always first of all turn on symmetry in Blender or ZB to fix pJCM / cbs on both sides. And Attenuate By options have never failed me up to now. So if Mirroring options don't work for you, try using Attenuate By.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,941

    Gator said:

    barbult said:

    Gator said:

    Mada said:

    Something to try - find the morph in the property hierarchy and change the scalar from positive to negative or vice versa - maybe that will fix it :)T 

    Thanks fort the suggestion Mada, I read that in another forum post but for the life of me can't find that either.  You mean the min/max here?  

     

    She said Property Hierarchy, not parameter settings. Property Hierarchy is a whole different pane (tab). It is huge and complex.

    Found it.  But I can't set anything.  There's one value highlighted but I tried them all.

    You are in Sub-components for the JCM, which is empty (that is the links to properties controlled by the one you are looking at, which for a JCM will often be none) - what you want is the Controllers section (properties which are controlling the property you are looking at - which in this case would be the bend that triggers the JCM).

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,986

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Gator said:

    barbult said:

    Gator said:

    Mada said:

    Something to try - find the morph in the property hierarchy and change the scalar from positive to negative or vice versa - maybe that will fix it :)T 

    Thanks fort the suggestion Mada, I read that in another forum post but for the life of me can't find that either.  You mean the min/max here?  

     

    She said Property Hierarchy, not parameter settings. Property Hierarchy is a whole different pane (tab). It is huge and complex.

    Found it.  But I can't set anything.  There's one value highlighted but I tried them all.

    You are in Sub-components for the JCM, which is empty (that is the links to properties controlled by the one you are looking at, which for a JCM will often be none) - what you want is the Controllers section (properties which are controlling the property you are looking at - which in this case would be the bend that triggers the JCM).

    Actuall there's no Bend property triggers pJCMs on a Wearable, instead they're Auto Follow (if I understand correctly, OP was fixing pJCMs on a necklace rather than Genesis figure...)

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,941

    crosswind said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Gator said:

    barbult said:

    Gator said:

    Mada said:

    Something to try - find the morph in the property hierarchy and change the scalar from positive to negative or vice versa - maybe that will fix it :)T 

    Thanks fort the suggestion Mada, I read that in another forum post but for the life of me can't find that either.  You mean the min/max here?  

     

    She said Property Hierarchy, not parameter settings. Property Hierarchy is a whole different pane (tab). It is huge and complex.

    Found it.  But I can't set anything.  There's one value highlighted but I tried them all.

    You are in Sub-components for the JCM, which is empty (that is the links to properties controlled by the one you are looking at, which for a JCM will often be none) - what you want is the Controllers section (properties which are controlling the property you are looking at - which in this case would be the bend that triggers the JCM).

    Actuall there's no Bend property triggers pJCMs on a Wearable, instead they're Auto Follow (if I understand correctly, OP was fixing pJCMs on a necklace rather than Genesis figure...)

    Usually true, though it does depend on the follow mode - but the screenshot was still showing the wrong location if there were any links.

  • GatorGator Posts: 1,296

    Richard Haseltine said:

    crosswind said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Gator said:

    barbult said:

    Gator said:

    Mada said:

    Something to try - find the morph in the property hierarchy and change the scalar from positive to negative or vice versa - maybe that will fix it :)T 

    Thanks fort the suggestion Mada, I read that in another forum post but for the life of me can't find that either.  You mean the min/max here?  

     

    She said Property Hierarchy, not parameter settings. Property Hierarchy is a whole different pane (tab). It is huge and complex.

    Found it.  But I can't set anything.  There's one value highlighted but I tried them all.

    You are in Sub-components for the JCM, which is empty (that is the links to properties controlled by the one you are looking at, which for a JCM will often be none) - what you want is the Controllers section (properties which are controlling the property you are looking at - which in this case would be the bend that triggers the JCM).

    Actuall there's no Bend property triggers pJCMs on a Wearable, instead they're Auto Follow (if I understand correctly, OP was fixing pJCMs on a necklace rather than Genesis figure...)

    Usually true, though it does depend on the follow mode - but the screenshot was still showing the wrong location if there were any links.

    Correct... I was trying to edit the pJCM on the wearable, the necklace.

    I found another post about the mirroring, it appears that I was doing it right.  I have no idea why that isn't working. 

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/174171/is-it-possible-to-easily-mirror-a-morph

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,986
    edited September 28

    You've done nothing wrong in terms of the workflow and setting... only problem is that the necklace is not 100% symmetrical... so Mirroring doesn't work and just bring you wrong result.

    If you use the Top in Genesis 3 Starter Essentials for a test with the very same steps, you'll find Mirroring options all work well. (screenshot 1). And if you check that Circe Necklace with close-up, you'll find it's not 100% symmetrycal (screenshot 2).

    Edit:  MLP better have a feature: with Mirroring options, if it finds the item asymmetrical before updating the morph, it should give users an error message rather than updating the morph directly.

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    Post edited by crosswind on
  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,986

    With this necklace, you can use Attenuate option. For instance, fix both sides of the necklace in Blender with Symmetry firstly, then update two pJCM morphs seperately with MLP.

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  • MadaMada Posts: 1,991

    oh great its solved :) I didn't have time yesterday to really look at it, had guests visiting for the weekend.

  • GatorGator Posts: 1,296

    Thanks everyone!  Bummer it's not symmetrical.  I made separate morphs for the other side.

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,986

    Great ! yes

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