Merging parented props into a scene
TangoAlpha
Posts: 4,584
Is there a way to bring a parented prop into a Carrara scene without all its children getting reset to {0, 0, 0}? I can open the prop on its own and all its bits stay in the right places, but if I merge the rest of the scene . . . well, that just transfers the problem to something else.
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HI :)
The phrase "parented prop" I understand,. but the part about "all it's childern" throws me,.
if a model has other models parented to it,. shouldn't that be a rigged object ?, which would make it a Figure, rather than a prop, like a gun, or vase.
Also,. I take it that these "parented props" saved as parented props in Poser or DS,. and as I understand it,. Those should be loaded onto the selected figure via the content /smart content browser, rather than merged or imported from files, as the figure needs to be selected for the parenting to work correctly
Merging complete poser scenes, into a Carrara scene can create Universe issues, as the poser scene is in it's own universe within carrara's.
or maybe I don't understand what the thing is,... more info if possible
Yes, sorry, it's parented in terms of its hierarchical grouping. So "sliding door" is parented to "room", or "plate" is parented to "table". They're Carrara props, saved as .car files, everything neatly positioned in a hierarchy.
In fact it could be any .car file that's got more than one thing, I don't think the hierarchy makes much difference.
Open it on it's own and all is fine. But try to import it to another scene, and evertything gets dumped at 0,0,0 Which is a major PITA when youve got lots of bits that you spent hours getting into position!
I'm not seeing that happening here,. I'm dragging some parented stuff from My Objects,.into a scene,. no issues,.
I have a Door frame with a parented door (hinged) which has an axis constraint,. that all works as expected. also a vehicle with parented doors and bonnet, again,.. no probs.
If I drag n drop from the browser to the scene instance list,. they show up where they should,.. in position the same position as they were when i saved them by dragging them into the browser.
If I import that same item using,... File / import,. then the item is placed at Scene 0,0,0,. but the parented objects are not changed, they remain parented in place
so, it loads correcly, ...just not into the same location as it was, when it was saved.
You could try making it into a group, or animated group,,. see how that works,. but it's working as expected for me. ..so forget the grouping,...confused,
You don't have an animated timeline in the car file you are trying to import perchance?
Yes, what you're describing is exactly what's not happening!
This particular prop is a stage lighting console. 52 sliders (duplicates of 3 master slider props: red, yellow, and white), each parented to the main board, & with a shaft constraint applied. Open the file is fine, but import or drag/drop, and everything goes to 0,0,0. Even if it's imported / dragged to a brand new scene. Putting it in a group doesn't make a difference. There's no timeline in either the source or destination files.
NIce Desk :)
I know it's something to do with the constraints and parenting,. need ot experiment and thunk on it a bit,. getting old and tired :)
parent the slider,in place,... then set the constaint,. ,.? maybe it's the duplication,. ...If you set up one, duplicated and moved it
I think that grouping some of the sliders may be a good idea, just for ease of use.
I've had a play around with this ,. and the only way i can reproduce this is to grab the sliders,(Children) and drag them out of the desk (Parent) ...then they all default to 0
but dragging them back to the parent, fixes them back into thier original positions on the desk.
I made a quick box for the desk, and another box for the slider,. Duplicated a few of the sliders,. then dragged them all onto the desk in the instance list to perent them to it.
then I set the shaft constraints for the sliders, then drag the completed desk into the browser.
Opened a new scene,. dragged it into the scene,. no probs
opened an older scene with objects figures etc,. dragged the desk into there,. no probs.
Your structure looks the same as mine , all the sliders are parented to the console,. so i'm not sure why it's not behaving the same.
Test: I created a bunch of sphere test objects, changed their sizes, repositioned them, and created a parenting hierarchy going large to small, the largest sphere parenting the whole group. I then grouped that hierarchy along with Camera1 and dragged that group into my Browser. In a second copy of Carrara I dragged that item into a New scene from the browser. All the size and position relationships were retained. The only thing that changed was Camera1, which had a different view for some reason.
- Don
If you imports the .car file of your safeguarded project, the camera and the lights will be included in the importation.
You will thus have two cameras, that of your actual project and that imported with your .car file.
(You can import another project in an opened project)
It is nearly the same difference as the .pz2 and .pz3 in Poser.
You can try loading it, select each bit at a time and add a keyframe at 0 on timeline then resaving it.
Just for kicks, here's something to consider (or not?):
- Select the object that you're having difficulty with and remove it from being parented to anything.
- Edit > Send to Origin
Observe where it ends up, but don't change its location. We want it's reported center, according to the Motion Tab, to be at 0x, 0y, and 0z
If this is the problem, in that it's not where it should be when loaded all by itself, we can change that.
- Select the Item
- Click the wrench and enter vertex edit mode
- Select everything and move it to where it should belong when loaded in at zero coordinates. You may aslo enter the values in numerically in the top of the panel to the right
That's what I've basically had to do - position everything in the vertex editor where I want it to load in the final scene. Okay for static props, but for (say) a door, it completely messes the centre of rotation, and shift-lock-reposition the C-O-R is as much hassle as repositioning the prop in the first place! (IYSWIM)
HI Tim,. there has to be something else going on there,. if other people try the same thing and are achieving that,.
also,. i think what dart is meaning is that it;'s important to have the object centred in the VM , because that relates to the position of the object and the position of the Hotspot for that object,.. in the Assembly room.
and if the hot spot / object centre is off. ...that can effect constraints,.
I'm still really puzzled by this, is is possible you've changed something in the prefs,. because it's not happening for others,.. the answer must be localised.
You shouldn't have to create a door and it's frame in the VM to have it remain in place,. that's nutz.
Break it down,. simple style,. a couple of cubes,. parent one to the other,. set constraints on one, see what happens when you save / load
Make a backup (ZIP) of your Preferences file, then reset, and rinse. try again
I've always got the most predictable behavior by ensuring that the 0x, 0y, and 0z position places the mesh on (not within or below) the floor at 0,0,0.
Once that's done, then maneuver the item in the assembly room to where you want it to be after being parented, and then parent it. If I would then save that item individually, and then drag it back into the scene onto the object it was parented to, it will pop in right where I had it before saving it separately.
Yes... agreed... 100%
Has to be something strange going on. Sometimes it might be as simple as something being in a group - the group was moved prior to that something being added to the group, so that new item stays where it should be, but add something that used to be part of that group, before the group was moved, and somehow that screws everything up. Try ungrouping everything (Crtl U) and making new groups. Something. It is really strange that you're having this issue. Really strange.
If you try a whole new scene and try to perform the same type of thing, do you still get the bizarre results?
Okay, built a very simple box room, with a very simple box door, parented and constrained. Grouped & saved to the object tray, then Imported into a new scene and they were fine. Import the lighting desk prop to the same scene, and all the sliders are reset to 0,0,0. If the desk is opened (by double-clicking) the sliders are correct.
Both imports were done by dragging the prop from the object browser to the instances tray
I've zipped both props and put them onto dropbox. I'd be interested to know if you can import both props successfully . . .
Tks.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/owsb0o63zmnki07/CA-Test.zip?dl=0
HI Tim ,.
You've got some keyframes in there,. at the point the object was saved,. the animation timeline is at 8:18 ,. and at that point the sliders are in place,.
but at frame 0,. the sliders are at 0.0.0. and that animation gets saved in the car file for that object. (basically the same as a scene file).
If you delete the keys at the beginning,. that should leave only the ones where the controls are in position, and you can select and move those keyframes back to frame 0, then apply constraints.
So,. when you doubkle click to load the "object" scene,. it's also loading the saved timeline position,. where everything is in position.
but when you drag it into a scene,. it's loading at frame 0, (which is normally where that scene timeline is when you're loading in things) and where all the controls are at 0.,. it;s still loading in the animation ,. but it's at the start rather than where you want it. so if you move the timeline,. on the imported / dragged in version,. the sliders wil move into position
...and if you want it to load in with an animation applied, try using an NLA that gets saved with the item rather than having any keyframes in the scene when you save.
Dratted keyframes. I'd happily consign the whole lot to Room 101, they're a menace!
Pesky keyframes can sometimes be extremely bothersome ,. quite often handy too as saving some objects can also save a load of NLA clips I fogot to save
Just a thought,.
With so many controller slider thangs,.. you could make this an animated group,. tthen use NLA (poses or clips) ,,,or,.. Puppeteer, to record Pose "presets" just to make it easier to use.
thunking out loud
DS allows you to rig sliders, easy peasy, but such rigging doesn't seem to work in Carrara (would be too easy, lol) -- the bone slides but the geometry doesn't. Morphs would be another way if there were just a few sliders, but that's a hell of a lot of redundantly duplicated geometry (I don't kow if there's a way to just include the bit that changes . . .) I'm lost when it comes to animation, cos I never do it, but it could be worth playing around with.
And of course, simple constraints act in world space, and not relative to the parent object, so you have to zero out the parent's rotation, move the slider, then reapply the rotation. PITA!
should always listen to me, don't worry about andy et dart et al ;)
oh that's a small joke by the way
Yeah, I think the timeline thingy was so far over that I couldn't see it.
it's a pita :)
If you don't normally do animations, you can disable automatic creation of keyframes by clicking on the teeny "Animate" button on the far left of the scrubber controls. It is active by default - white writing shows it is active, black disabled. That will prevent unwanted accidental animations:)
Thanks, that's very useful to know. :)
I always listen to HeadWax . :)
even when he's just writing stuff,. i love the scratching noises the quill makes, and the sound of the ink soaking into the paper :)
Also,. think he means (it's a Pitza)
:)