4.5 lighting rarely surfaces
JavP
Posts: 121
After a lot of work to recover old projects in 3 and 4 to 4.5 ( some of them loosed ), all seemed to go better. The render continues been impossible for "complex" models at level or quality 4, but...
Now my problem is that the render in 4.5 make strange things with the light.
In general seems like the lights have less distance or power over long distanced objects, or a similar cause that show a darknes render than with 4.0.
My very big problem now is that a very big bakground surface to show a picture of a sky as bakground, ( was right in 4.0 ) is showed now as a black surface. I touched all the settings. The object's surface properties, put lights in front, or change the render settings. All is the same.
What is happening ? This work has 6 months of work. 3 of work and 3 of DAZ problems and revisions.
4.5 over XP with 4 Gb RAM ( It uses 3 as max for XP ). VGA ATI RADEON aproved by DAZ in the test.
Javier
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Comments
What lights are you using?
I found this with a scene I made in DS4, loaded it in DS4.5 and yes the lighting wasn't as strong as before. I was using Area Lighting and there seems to be a bug with these lights. Fixed in the next releae I believe.
Oooppsss. My previous message seems to be not published. I repeat it.
Distant light or spot light, or both. The problem is the same.
Your comment sounds like a new wait of 3 months. This seems the never ending story.
Javier
Have you tried increasing the intenstiy of said lights?
And I wouldn't say 3 months to wait. No I don't have any more info than you but expereince suggests we won't have to wait long. This is why a number of people are still using DS 4.3.xxx.
Yes, I tried tu put a spot light just in front of the panel, and that was the key to think that something was wrong.
I know that you can't know the time to a new revision. It was a coment "to the air"...
Thank you.
Javier
Moving the light will not change its intensity.
Yes over the object.
Javier
What type of lights are being used?
Are they spot lights?
Distant lights?
Point Lights?
etc.
With the exception of point lights and lights that have dedicated fall off controls, all lights in DAZ Studio are "Infinite" meaning that they are as bright at 100 meters away from a surface as they are at 1 meter away. Indeed, even at 10,000 meters.
Hello Adam, all that you ask is explained before.
Yes... it "would be infinite". That is the problem. It is not over this object... since 4.5 installation.
Javier.
You never did answer my question of what type of light it is. I'm glad to try and help, but I can't do much without more information. I know that spots, distants, etc. all work fine in 4.5.
You have the response in the second message of this thread. If you don't want to read the thread, I paste it again:
"Distant light or spot light, or both. The problem is the same."
About that is going fine, I send :
1- the editor
2- the first result ( so dark that is not visible including more lights )
3- taked the panel to Hexagon to reload the image, taked again to DS4.5, and reload again the image.
Could it be because of you doing a toon render or opengl render?
Hello, the render is not as cartoon, but yes, with OpenGL shader.
I have tested now doing it without the OpenGL Shader as you suspect, and yes, dissapear the grid of the panel. But continue painting a vertical line across the sky, and the resolution is very bad.
It is difficult to believe, but the quality of the sky into the real time editor is much more better than into the render.
Javier
Well I am stumped which is not hard these days. To get rid of that line you could try looking at The Advanced Render Settings.
As for the lights. Increasing the intenstiy does not mean moving them but increasing how much light they emit. If your lights are set to 100% and you cannnot increase then you need to adjust and increase the Limits of the Intensity. Let me know if you don't know how to do this.
Thank you very much but for that is no longer needed. Like I said the 4.5 is darker than the 4. But can be set smoothly.
The main problem was that the lighting was no way to illuminate the panel. Now however well lit, but the problem is that it invent a pattern that does not exist.
I found finally the problem was black panel. It was an image attached to the LAYER EDITOR. And somehow, the pass to 4.5 got into the layer of this picture the color black as diffuse color.
Is not the first time that an update or new pass over the bridge Hexagon - DS alter the surfaces.
The problem with this pattern / grid is what I have now stopped. The only thing I can think is that it's the biggest object of all. I tried to reduce it and the pattern is reduced. But insufficient.
Thank you.
Javier
As for the grid, two things to try:
#1) Make sure the Shading Rate on your advanced render settings tab is set to something lower than 1.00 (the default). Try 0.50. or 0.20.
#2) If your Shading Rate is good, then try the following:
Select the object on the scene tab.
On the scene tab context menu at the top (looks like a little icon with a down arrow and horizontal lines), select Edit > Geometry > Convert to SubD.
This will give the rendering engine more polygons to smooth the backdrop and hopefully eliminate the "gridding" that you're seeing.
Another thing... on backdrops especially it is fequently useful to use Ambient settings on the surfaces tab to make them appear correctly without having to "over light" the rest of the scene.
To do so, change the Ambient Color to 255,255,255 and adjust ambient strength to your desired value. If you don't want shadows to appear on the background there are ways you can do that too.
Reading through this quickly, I wonder if it has any bearing on a problem I've seen from time to time, and yesterday finally had to look into it more deeply. I first started noticing this around build 114, dunno if it existed earlier.
Loading an older prop product (in this case Dreamlight's Canyon prop), worked on it for a while and then saved it. Coming back later and reloading, all surfaces on everything except the skydome seemed to go to black. Renders from the scene looked fine ... it was as if diffuse textures were removed and replaced with plain black. If I cranked up ambient strength with white ... everything looked ok in previews, but came out way overexposed in final renders. If I cranked up the light, the previews stayed black. In my case I finally tracked it down to the light set that came with the prop. I ungrouped/saved the lights from the original prop and merged them back into my scene and things seemed to work ok after that. Reported as bug 47933. may or may not be the same problem you had but sounds somewhat similar? (parts of scene go black, as if light strength went way down).
I'll include a couple of screenshots of what I ran into ... the viewport as it looked initially, then as it looked after reloading (everything's there, just all showing in black)
Adam, thank you for your help. I tried to use your triks, but the result was the same. The “gridding” as you name better, is not the result of the polygons. In fact that panel has only 10 faces. That grid is a fiction as result to try to paint the picture into the panel. I don't know why.
I think more like DG, that is something that is shoed from a previous version. Maybe the change from 4 to 4.5, or from .DAF to .DUF.
Thinking so, I take the panel again to Hexagon, delete the surface domain, and created it again with a new picture. But was the same. So I thinked that that the bridge is taking something wrong that I can see.
I builded a new panel, but not as a curved plain. This time is a box started from zero with the domain with the picture of the sky. And now is showed ok.
Thank you to all.
Javier
I heard back from Daz support ...
in my case it is the fact that the viewports only use the first 8 lights of a scene in preview mode. The prop I was loading has over 30 lights (see partial screen shot of scene tab attached). Now in 4.0, it always loaded/saved/reloaded fine. But in 4.5, on reloading that order of lights must have changed and it appears the preview was using the first 8 lights of the "ambient bounce" group in that prop. Those are all very low level lights used to fill in shadows. I took that group out and added it back in (just deleted the bounce group, and then ctrl-Z to undo ... the lights come back, but now at the bottom of the list). Now with the "sun" and "sky lights" (which are the brightest) at the top of the light order, the scene was what I expected when I saved and reloaded.
Again, for me this was an issue in the preview panels, NOT the final renders -- rendering was never an issue for me.
It's just a strange issue and I like to chase those occasionally. ;)
Either way, glad you came to a solution! :)