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Who said Blender was hard?

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  • daveleitzdaveleitz Posts: 459

    The Blender Animation Toolkit is great and well worth the money I spent on it.

    http://www.blender3d.org/e-shop/product_info_n.php?products_id=157

    Also, Humane Rigging was a good introduction to how rigging works to make complex animations possible.

    http://www.blender3d.org/e-shop/product_info_n.php?products_id=146

    Studying these kinds of tutorials can give one an idea of the complexity behind quality CG animations in the industry and a peek at the standard way things are done outside the DAZ/Poser microcosm.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,040
    j cade said:
    kyoto kid said:
    bradrg said:
    kyoto kid said:

    ...I think I mentioned that I already have a copy of Blender for Dummies (paid 24.95$ for it) and evne after reading through it, every time I open the programme up and see that same UI (which doesn't respond the same as in other CG software), I still feel totally lost. I don't think in keystrokes and key combinations when it comes to creating graphics as I used to draw & paint. Hence, based on that perspective, I find using a clean, elegant, pointer driven UI (like Hexagon's) to be so much more intuitive as it doesn't "get in the way" of the process for learning modelling.

    As to Carrara, I do have it but can never seem to get the modelling tab's screen to work right. All I seem to get is the "thumbnail" view down in the right lower corner.

    Again, the reason I ike Hexagon's concept, is that it is totally dedicated to the task of modelling without all the other distracting features that programmes such as Blender, Carrara, and even the "pro" applications include.

    Books are great- I've got about 5 blender books, but if that's not helping then the best thing to do is just start a project. Then every time you have a question, post it here, and we'll tell you how to do it. Write the solution down, so that you know it next time. It will be a slow start, but you'll find yourself only using a handful of tools at first, so once you've covered those you'll get into the flow. 

    ...this is how I usually approach new software however having to use keyboard commands just to move about the main workspace instead of a pointer pretty much stops me cold on even a simple project.

    As I mentioned I have bad arthritis which is why I turned to 3D CG since it is very difficult to hole a pencil or brush steady anymore.  Instead of a mouse, I use an ergonomic trackball to do my CG work as it is the easiest on my hands and wrists. My keyboarding speed is about half of what it used to be as I'm down to using only use one finger on my right hand when typing.  So shortcut keys, especially multiple combinations (like Shift + Alt + alphanumeric), are actually slower (and more of a pain at times, literally) for me than using my trackball to just "point & click".

    Then (as I have also mentioned) there is the whole issue with having to memorise a bunch of keyboard shortcuts on top of learning the tools and figuring out the basics of modelling.  I am more "visually" oriented and find a setup which is built on visual references (like a pointer - icon - menu driven UI) much more elegant to use and almost "invisible" compared to having to deal with so many different key combinations at the outset.

    When I worked with WordPerfect 5, It came with a plastic quick reference Template that fit over the Function keys (which were that programme's "hotkeys" as this was in the "pre mouse GUI" days) with all the "Alt", "Shift" "Ctrl" combinations over each key printed on it (it was even colour coded). As Blender makes extensive use of the alpha keyboard and numeric keypad, such a guide would be impossible to implement.  So for me, it means having to stop and look these up either within the programme, or some in other source (like a help file/tutorial) far too frequently. Tis has a major impact on the workflow and learning process as again they are required to pretty much do anything and everything in the programme "out of the box".  This is why I have said that Blender's UI tends to "get in the way" of the learning process for me as I find the heavy reliance on keyboard based commands (and having to memorise them all) to be much more clumsy and "clunky" for my style of workflow, compared to one like Hexagon uses.

     

    The folks here have told you multiple times, that while hotkeys can speed up workflow, they are not required. I use more now as I have gotten used to the software, but for the first 2 years I used the program I used all of shift+middle mouse button to pan, cntrl+mmb to zoom, g to grab, s to scale, and e to extrude. You will note that none of these use more than one button on the keyboard. I still don't use any hotkeys where I press 3 keys at once. I repeat hotkeys are not required.

    ....however in Hexagon I can do all that as well as freely move about the workspace with just the trackball and its buttons. My trackball also does not have a "middle" button for those functions.  I know that Blender is customisable where I could configure the trackball to do that, but scripting is not my strong suit.

    Having to use the numeric keys (which require I use my more crippled right hand) for simply moving about the workspace I find to be very "clumsy" in comparison.

  • StratDragonStratDragon Posts: 3,167
    Gedd said:

    I would double check to see that it works with the current version just to be safe. Usually for something like this it wouldn't be an issue but it'd be a bummer to spend the money and find out otherwise.

    One nice feature of Blender though is that it is totally self contained. We can drop a folder on the hard drive, create a link and it runs, not registry entries or the like to complicate matters. This means that we can run multiple versions of Blender side-by-side with no issues. In fact many people do, beta versions, release candidates, stable releases and in some cases older versions to use certain plugins/add-ons or just because they like an older version better for some functions.

    I commonly have two or more sessions of the same version active when I model, especially when I need to merge individual parts of one model into another file, I can edit, change the names of them. This would be an amazing feature in DS btw, if I could take a custom hair morph I made for a scene and forgot to save as a single asset and then load that from the source file into a new scene. Blender does this and it's very flexible. 

  • j cadej cade Posts: 2,310
    Forgot to mention I also used blender for roughly 6 months on a laptop without any mouse other than its pad. I genuinely don't remember how I navigated, but I did. Still not as bad as when the bottom thind of my first laptop's screen died... By the time I got a new laptop I was so used to having the start menu on the top of the screen I almost just kept it there.
  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,259
    edited October 2015
    StratDragon said:

    I commonly have two or more sessions of the same version active when I model, especially when I need to merge individual parts of one model into another file, I can edit, change the names of them.

    There is an add-on included in Blender (has to be activated in preferences) called Edit Linked Library which allows you to do this without opening another instance of Blender. The Blendercookie archive has a video explaining how it works.

    We can create .blend files that just act as libraries holding content we want to be able to use in new scenes without having to recreate them or to consolidate objects in separate files, using a master file to manage the scene itself.

    When creating library .blend files, it helps at some point if we get enough resources to break them up into separate .blend files based on some catagorization that makes sense to us, such as by resource type, say textures in one, sci-fi kitbash objects in another, etc...

    When we bring in an object from a library, we can either instance it from the library, in which case any changes to the base object in the library gets updated to the imported one (and we cannot modify the imported one directly) or, copy it into the working scene, in which case it is independent of the library version.

    Post edited by Joe Cotter on
  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,259
    edited October 2015

    Anyone who hasn't seen The Grove, a paid add-on for Blender should check this out, it's amazing. The quality looks to be better then the competitors for non-realtime plants and it costs less (then other commercial products, not less then the free 'Sapling' add-on included in Blender of course.)

    Besides being non-realtime, it's still new so the 'limbs' which create individual tree types are limited but one would expect this to change as time goes on. Check it out, worth the look.

    Post edited by Joe Cotter on
  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,212

    Wondering if the leaves are full geometry or not.  I'm avoiding plants these days with transparency maps.  Hard on system resources.  There is a vendor here at DAZ that fully models his leaves and uses no transparency maps and looks every bit, if not better, than all the other offerings.  So just curious about this one thing.  Also it's 109.00 in Euro I guess so not sure what that would cost in US money. 

  • Robert FreiseRobert Freise Posts: 4,441

    A little over $97.00 dollars

    Getting really tired of this wait while we log you out and back in BS since all it does is cause me to have to login again at least twice before I can reply

  • DaremoK3DaremoK3 Posts: 798
    edited July 2017

    Gedd's post on the last page described me to a T...  Approximately twenty versions used for the reasons Gedd suggests.

     

    Okay...

     

    I have been using a Logitech two-button trackball mouse (ball centered version - not thumb version) for well over a decade.  No middle mouse scroll/button for me...

     

    I can use key strokes to activate navigation, but I also prefer simpler methods, so I created one (as a temporary measure until a dedicated one is implemented into Blender; Navigation Cube, etc.), added it to the 3D Navigation Tabs Panel Addon, and offered it here to the users of this very thread several pages ago.

     

    It is a ONE CLICK (left mouse button - no key strokes) modal solution for activation of whatever navigation needed (rotate, pan [with continuous grab - pan through viewport enabled], or zoom), and then when you arrived at your desired local (via rotate/pan/zoom) you deactivate modal activation with another simple ONE CLICK (anywhere in viewport - does not matter where mouse ended up).  It even works with Quad-View (with one cavet of needing to unselect mesh than select mesh again after activating Quad-View [Blender hang up - not mine]).

     

    I have since also added these one-click buttons to the 3D Viewport bottom Header which works with the different modes (Object, Edit, Sculpt, etc.), and added them to Image Editor viewport as well (sans rotate, or course).

     

    The original link is long since dead, but if there are those who would like me to make these solutions available as addons, I will work to make them self sufficient code inserts (instead of the dirty hacks, needing you to replace original files, that they are).  So, just let me know if anyone out there would like this functionality for there usage...

     

    Below is image showing these buttons in my customized Blender 2.71 build.  On the left (Tabs panels) is the 3D Navigation Tab Addon, and you can see the Rotate/Pan/Zoom buttons on the bottom of that panel.  Then if you look on the bottom of the viewport on the 3D View Header, you will see the same buttons (as well as other items I have added).

    *Click for bigger view* (sorry, can't seem to make it just big enough to fit in post with ability to click on it to go to full size) *FIXED - Still click on image for full size:

    Blender271_CustomUI.jpg
    1600 x 862 - 451K
    Blender271_CustomUI.jpg
    1600 x 862 - 451K
    Post edited by DaremoK3 on
  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,259

    Thanks Daremok,

    I happen to find the built in method for navigation fluid, but I would gladly give your add-on a try if I wasn't. For anyone who finds they need a gui for navigation, if they don't at least try it then... ;)

  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,259
    Robert Freise said:

    A little over $97.00 dollars

    Getting really tired of this wait while we log you out and back in BS since all it does is cause me to have to login again at least twice before I can reply

    Yes it can still be frustrating but for me at least it's not as bad as it was. It doesn't get stuck in the constant loop it used to but rather just tries once (or 2x maybe)  ]stops. I can then login and click the 'back arrow' dropdown and jump back to the post page. So, not totally fixed but better.

  • RorrKonnRorrKonn Posts: 509

    Cris Palomino ,StratDragon Thanks for the info :)

  • Subtropic PixelSubtropic Pixel Posts: 2,388
    DaremoK3 said:
    I have been using a Logitech two-button trackball mouse (ball centered version - not thumb version) for well over a decade.  No middle mouse scroll/button for me

    I have a Logitech trackball...also, no middle wheel or middle mouse button.  So now I have a mouse at the left of my trackball, on both desks (where I keep my laptop and where I keep my workstation).

    The middle mouse button is critical for working in Blender, so I had to adapt my working habit to this.

    I plan to buy an Ouroboros mouse, and eventually I will try my own Wacom, but for now, just the basics.  That mouse is a bit expensive.

     

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,781
    Robert Freise said:

    A little over $97.00 dollars

    Getting really tired of this wait while we log you out and back in BS since all it does is cause me to have to login again at least twice before I can reply

    I think you went the wrong way - 109EUR is about 122USD

  • StratDragonStratDragon Posts: 3,167

    The login issue seems to have straightened itself out since I switched to Safari over Chrome. I think there may be a conflict with 3rd party plug-ins that are "logging me out" when I shut down even though I have keep me logged in checked off.

  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,259
    edited October 2015

    We mentioned before that OpenSubdiv is coming with Blender 2.76 but the discussion about OpenSubdiv has stretched out over a bit of time so for those who are wondering what the bruha is about here are two points to consider:

    1. OpenSubdiv like the name suggests is Open. This means that it will be cross product, cross platform. A model created using OpenSubdiv should be able to carry it's subdiv across products going forward.
    2. Speed, to best see this here is a video by Jonathan Lampel which demonstrates OpenSubdiv in Blender 2.76

    Jonathan has some other content that is well worth looking at so poke around on his site while there.

    Post edited by Joe Cotter on
  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,259
    edited October 2015

    Light Portals were mentioned earlier and Jonathan has a video which demonstrates what they are and how they work. One thing not mentioned in the video which we will notice is that the room in the demonstration is fully enclosed. Light portals are used specifically for enclosed spaces.

    Many people use open rooms to render their scene, only modeling the portion of the room that is visible in the camera or even deleting portions that aren't visible but this yields a much less accurate result. In some cases this won't be noticeable and in others it will, it really depends on the situation. In cases where it isn't noticeable, rendering with an open environment may yeild good results in as fast or faster time frames so play with both situations to develop a feel for what works best when.

    I don't have a link handy at the moment but I have seen examples where light portals work well with godrays in an enclosed space, so a good practice environment might be that scene with a large leaded glass window. Just make sure to enclose the space.

    Post edited by Joe Cotter on
  • BradCarstenBradCarsten Posts: 856

     

    kyoto kid said:

     

    ...this is how I usually approach new software however having to use keyboard commands just to move about the main workspace instead of a pointer pretty much stops me cold on even a simple project.

    As I mentioned I have bad arthritis which is why I turned to 3D CG since it is very difficult to hole a pencil or brush steady anymore.  Instead of a mouse, I use an ergonomic trackball to do my CG work as it is the easiest on my hands and wrists. My keyboarding speed is about half of what it used to be as I'm down to using only use one finger on my right hand when typing.  So shortcut keys, especially multiple combinations (like Shift + Alt + alphanumeric), are actually slower (and more of a pain at times, literally) for me than using my trackball to just "point & click".

    Then (as I have also mentioned) there is the whole issue with having to memorise a bunch of keyboard shortcuts on top of learning the tools and figuring out the basics of modelling.  I am more "visually" oriented and find a setup which is built on visual references (like a pointer - icon - menu driven UI) much more elegant to use and almost "invisible" compared to having to deal with so many different key combinations at the outset.

    When I worked with WordPerfect 5, It came with a plastic quick reference Template that fit over the Function keys (which were that programme's "hotkeys" as this was in the "pre mouse GUI" days) with all the "Alt", "Shift" "Ctrl" combinations over each key printed on it (it was even colour coded). As Blender makes extensive use of the alpha keyboard and numeric keypad, such a guide would be impossible to implement.  So for me, it means having to stop and look these up either within the programme, or some in other source (like a help file/tutorial) far too frequently. Tis has a major impact on the workflow and learning process as again they are required to pretty much do anything and everything in the programme "out of the box".  This is why I have said that Blender's UI tends to "get in the way" of the learning process for me as I find the heavy reliance on keyboard based commands (and having to memorise them all) to be much more clumsy and "clunky" for my style of workflow, compared to one like Hexagon uses.

    If there's a medical reason. then I understand. I wonder if there are any on screen keyboards that allow you to create your own short cuts- so you click a button and it does all the key combos for you. 

  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,259
    edited October 2015

    It was already mentioned that other then basic navigation there are menu options for anything that has a shortcut. As to the basic navigation, Daremok offered a solution, so at this point I'm not thinking keyboard shortcuts are an issue.

    Post edited by Joe Cotter on
  • Robert FreiseRobert Freise Posts: 4,441
    edited October 2015
    Richard Haseltine said:
    Robert Freise said:

    A little over $97.00 dollars

    Getting really tired of this wait while we log you out and back in BS since all it does is cause me to have to login again at least twice before I can reply

    I think you went the wrong way - 109EUR is about 122USD

    Used an online converter so anythings possiable thought it looked low but thats what it told me twice

     

    Post edited by Robert Freise on
  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,259
    edited October 2015

    Wonder what 3DLight would look like if it was up-to-date with Renderman with more of the features exposed? Take a look at this video by Jonathan Lampel where he shows Renderman in Blender.

    Post edited by Joe Cotter on
  • StratDragonStratDragon Posts: 3,167
    StratDragon said:

    The login issue seems to have straightened itself out since I switched to Safari over Chrome. I think there may be a conflict with 3rd party plug-ins that are "logging me out" when I shut down even though I have keep me logged in checked off.

    forget it, it's back with a vengeance and it just threw my sweet patootie out for no reason. 

  • DaremoK3DaremoK3 Posts: 798
    edited October 2015

    Hey Gedd,

     

    I was all excited about OpenSubD, and downloaded 2.76 RC1 to try it out.  After reading about the implemented functionality, my understanding was it was going to be viewport support.  After adding a Sub-D modifier to a mesh object there was a new tickbox at the bottom of the panel, but trying to check it yielded me the result - (paraphrasing here) "OpenSubD is not enabled in Addons".  So my tickbox remained unactivated.

     

    I thoroughly checked all throughout Addons under every category, and could not find any addon for OpenSubD, or pertaining to it.  So, as of yet, I am unable to try it out.

     

    I just downloaded 2.76 RC3 (to test my 3D Navigation Addon), and I am going to check to see if I can get OpenSubD to work.  If not, do you have any pointers, simple as they may be, that I might be overlooking?

     

    To everyone regarding the one-click 3D navigation scripts.  I had a request in my PM's, so I worked on making a standalone addon that will add to (append) Blender's already included 3D Navigation Tabs Panel Addon.  I also added the 3D Viewport Header (at bottom) buttons as well, but they will be located first on the header at bottom left (so those who don't know [or want to] about the header scrolling [Alt + drag] won't have to worry about them at the end of the header toolset.  After some more testing in 2.75, and 2.76, I will probably upload the addon later today (USA - Pacific Time).

     

    Oh, and disregard using in Quad View.  It won't work reliably due to some addons somehow breaking this functionality.  Original testing two years ago, and all that was needed was deselection/reselection of mesh object.  In my testing last night I was getting inconsistent results where that wouldn't work, but moving the 3D cursor - then back to center activated the buttons.  In some of my Blender versions, nothing would get it to work, and I have different addons activated in different versions.  It would take way to long to track down the actual culprits that are clashing, and nulling the buttons to work correctly in Quad View.  So, to recap - don't use in Quad View...

     

    * EDIT: I just wanted to touch on the basis of the one-click buttons.  Nothing magical, or even hard about it.  The great thing about Blender Python scripting is you can work from the exposed hard-coded commands, and just manipulate them to your own use.  The coding is Blender's.  I just used calls to utilize the navigation that is already there, no matter what mouse set-up you use.  Clicking the one-click button just tells Blender you want to activate the modal navigation, just like if you would have clicked middle-mouse button, Alt + Left Click, and etc.

     

    I scripted this because no one else saw a need, and the majority of users are fine with whatever set-up they are using as default.  This is for users like kyoto kid (or anyone with a medical limitation), or users like me when the cat or dog is in my lap while I am trying to model...

    Post edited by DaremoK3 on
  • DaremoK3DaremoK3 Posts: 798

    Subtropic Pixel:

     

    That is a cool looking, expensive mouse there.  I'm happy with my Logitechs (two in use, and a brand new unopened one for if/when one of mine breaks).

     

    I have a standard three-button mouse (middle scroll/button) as well that came with my Windows 7 box, but I tend to only use it if I am working in Roadkill UV mapper.

     

    I don't find your statement to be true regarding Blender's usage being critical with the middle mouse button.  I have found many work-arounds, and Gedd pointed out one that I don't even use, but I use the parallel "Page Up/Page Down" keys to expand/contract circle/sphere influence.  There are sometimes more than one way to achieve same result in Blender (Shift + V/GG for vertex slide as example), and the same is true with middle mouse button usage.  I'll agree that it is faster/more convenient to use middle mouse button, but I don't believe critical.

     

    Now, Roadkill UV mapper, that is critical middle mouse usage.  There is no other way about it to pan in 3D view, or move UV selections.

  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,259
    edited October 2015
    DaremoK3 said:
    I was all excited about OpenSubD, and downloaded 2.76 RC1 to try it out.  After reading about the implemented functionality, my understanding was it was going to be viewport support.  After adding a Sub-D modifier to a mesh object there was a new tickbox at the bottom of the panel, but trying to check it yielded me the result - (paraphrasing here) "OpenSubD is not enabled in Addons".  So my tickbox remained unactivated.

     There isn't an add-on as it's built into the core. I'm guessing the error message actually read "OpenSubdiv is disabled in User Preferences." There is a section on the bottom left of the System tab of User Preference called Compute Device. There you set it to GPU and type of compute. Mine only shows CPU and no compute device which I'm guessing is because I have an older video card, a 9800 GTX+. I'm not sure what the support requirements are for OpenSubdiv in Blender but from the looks of it, something more modern then what I'm using.

    I could be wrong, but don't have a way of checking it with my current hardware so I'd be interested in hearing what others find, if anyone else is able to get OpenSubdiv to work or not on their hardware.

    Post edited by Joe Cotter on
  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,259

    I was doing some followup to the OpenSubdiv question and looking at the wiki page left me a bit confused. According to what it says, it seems that OpenSubdiv should be available on a purely CPU basis, in which case I'm not sure why I'm not getting any options available for that.

    Daremok, did you check your user preferences to see if that fixed it for you, or was that not the issue?

  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,259
    edited October 2015

    Hmm, never mind... missed this obvious callout on the wiki page.

    Even for CPU evaluation your graphics card should support geometry shaders and uniform buffers at least in order to be able to visualize mesh in the viewport in an optimal way. If the GPU or it's driver doesn't have support of this features none of OpenSubdiv compute devices will be available.

    I need a new computer. ;)

    Post edited by Joe Cotter on
  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,259

    There are plenty of tutorials on composition, blocking/storyboarding a scene, etc.. but I really like how this one by Jonathan succinctly covered all bases here in a nice overview of his process.

  • Subtropic PixelSubtropic Pixel Posts: 2,388
    edited October 2015
    DaremoK3 said:

    Subtropic Pixel:

     

    That is a cool looking, expensive mouse there.  I'm happy with my Logitechs (two in use, and a brand new unopened one for if/when one of mine breaks).

    Yeah, ain't it?  I don't game very much at all, but let me tell you that gaming equipment is often just what I need to get things done.  Fast CPUs, even faster GPUs, lots of memory, human interface equipment, etc.  I keep returning to the gaming equipment rack for stuff to help me.

    DaremoK3 said:

    I don't find your statement to be true regarding Blender's usage being critical with the middle mouse button.  I have found many work-arounds, and Gedd pointed out one that I don't even use, but I use the parallel "Page Up/Page Down" keys to expand/contract circle/sphere influence.  There are sometimes more than one way to achieve same result in Blender (Shift + V/GG for vertex slide as example), and the same is true with middle mouse button usage.  I'll agree that it is faster/more convenient to use middle mouse button, but I don't believe critical.

    Right, I agree with you, but remember my current situation:  I am mostly using vanilla settings as I work my way through tutorials...which use vanilla settings.  So I don't reconfigure mouse buttons, key bindings, menus, etc.  I did change the colors and text size, but I don't remap the entire UI yet.  So under that framework, middle mouse button is still critical for me.  And once the tutorials and book learning is done, I might be so well-practiced in it that I don't feel the need to change the UI.  Which would be fine (for me) too.  laugh

    But the Ouroboros mouse would certainly offer me a few more programmable buttons for my left hand, along with a comfortable scroll wheel/button and a completely customizable width, length, etc.  Because I don't want repetitive stress injuries.

    EDIT:  I should say that I'll still use the Logitech.  It doesn't need to be moved across a desktop surface, so it can stay to the immediate left of my keyboard while another mouse (like I said, I already have one for each machine) can live to the left of the trackball.

     

    Post edited by Subtropic Pixel on
  • DaremoK3DaremoK3 Posts: 798

    Yeah, Gedd, you were right.  That was it with OpenSubD, and I guess I have the same issue as you.  My rig is not up to minimum specs for it.  So, when you get your new PC, please send me one as well...

     

    Subtropic Pixel:

    I see your point.  Yes, I guess if you don't know the work-arounds, or all the shortcut keys the middle mouse button would be critical.  I know before I learned about PageUp/Down, proportional editing was a pane in my azz, and I was constantly reaching for that other damn mouse.

     

    Is it just me, or does the Ouroboros look like it can fry critters, or loved-ones with a simple aim-n-click?

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