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This is so cool it's sickening

chris poolechris poole Posts: 124
edited December 1969 in Carrara Discussion

OK I give up, the mount of development for DAZ Studio is just remarkable, how are they ever going to sell Carrara when you can get DAZ Studio for free and with a bunch of plugins that!, that! well it just sucks to be thought of second if not third in the advancement stakes.

Check out this channel and the website, I give up, It even renders much faster than Carrara, the interface and slickness makes Carrara's hair and fur look prehistoric.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=876SCeFleIQ&feature=channel&list=UL

http://look-at-my-hair.blogspot.co.uk/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdQWYAyneMY&feature=channel&list=UL

So they have Genesis, Reality, Terrain Generators, Animate, Hair and Fur the list go's on and on how long before they have true soft body dynamics, awesome particals etc...

I appreciate they are plugins, but like blender they attract these awesome programers because it's given away free, if it wasn't for Fenric and Sparrowhawke etc etc.. We'd have next to nothing.

I could pull my hair out, is it just me?

Chris

Comments

  • RomancefantasyRomancefantasy Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I started with DS but I can't stand it now, so it's really depressing to me. DS4 is just too bloated to work on my old pc and it crawls along and then grinds to a screeching halt when changing anything. It is so hard to find my content now too. Yes the plugins are cool but if the main app doesn't work on your pc then there are no plugins for me. >:(

    I like Carrara and I hope some of these plugins can be made for Carrara or that Daz can make even better tools for Carrara.

  • chris poolechris poole Posts: 124
    edited December 1969

    Hi romancefantasy,

    I agree with looking for the content, I dislike DS's content management system' but it runs slick enough on my PC. I bought Carrara and used to appreciated it's slickness and advantages over DS, but that's because it had some real advantages.

    But DS has been chiseling away at the advantages for some time now and who's going to buy Carrara' if DS is more attractive and far better advertised, are they trying to make us jump ship.

    I wish I knew their marketing strategy, I thought you let your flagship have the goodies first and let them filter down over a period of time (maybe they are! we just can't believe it).

  • RomancefantasyRomancefantasy Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    But Daz Studio is their baby and Carrara their adopted child or wicked stepchild. It looks like they are trying to build a solid core of features in DS but it still depends on plugins for some basic things. Carrara needs dynamic cloth and more refinement of the features it does have. If Genesis doesn't work as good in Carrara as it does in DS, then that will be a problem.

  • Akulla3DAkulla3D Posts: 131
    edited December 1969

    This is all so annoying. Seems like everything is just falling apart, and that some sales guy/girl is running the show at DAZ. Instead of creating a quality piece of software (as I started on DAZ Studio back in the beta days when it really was a good app). And someone decided they could make more money out of the new system. Steve Jobs had it right when he said Engineers should make the decisions, as all sales people care about is their sales ego and how to screw people into spending more money. Why am I even waisting my time here.

  • booksbydavidbooksbydavid Posts: 429
    edited December 1969

    akulla3D said:
    This is all so annoying. Seems like everything is just falling apart, and that some sales guy/girl is running the show at DAZ. Instead of creating a quality piece of software (as I started on DAZ Studio back in the beta days when it really was a good app). And someone decided they could make more money out of the new system. Steve Jobs had it right when he said Engineers should make the decisions, as all sales people care about is their sales ego and how to screw people into spending more money. Why am I even waisting my time here.

    Beginning to think like this as well. Hate it, too because I really like Carrara and I loved the community here.

  • BurnartBurnart Posts: 0
    edited May 2012

    I've tried DS - keep picking up the free versions when they are released but the reality is that I just don't like it. I find the interface confusing and really hard to get a good result - for me its just and endless frustration. The first day I had Carrara I felt a degree of comfort with it and was impressed with the renders I got on day 1. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying I have fantastic skills but Carrara works for me and my brain but DS doesn't seem to.

    Post edited by Burnart on
  • 0oseven0oseven Posts: 626
    edited December 1969

    Maybe the answer lay in this:

    I was exploring Daz Forum Competitions and made a comment that it should be for Daz/Carrara/Bryce software only. A daz employee responded and I cant remember word for word but the gist was _

    The competion was for "anything goes" so that newbies could learn about 3D.

    So this was not about showing off the software capabilities.
    But here's the crunch - It was explained to me that Daz (the company) was PRIMARILY a CONTENT provider.
    Im not professional and long way from expert but I started with Studio 4 years ago and switched to Carrara 6 because at the time it offered so much more. The more I use it the more I like it.
    Along the way I bought poser and {for interest} looked at Maya,3ds max,lightwave,blender,C4d and others and always concluded Carrara is the best to work with { recognising it doesnt have every feature} Thats why it is so frustrating to me that C development appears to be an afterthought to Daz Studio.

    Frankly I wish they would divorce Carrara from Daz to it's own website. We have Carrara Cafe but no one seems to support it whilst Carrara is part of the main Daz website.

  • chris poolechris poole Posts: 124
    edited December 1969

    romancefantasy said:
    But Daz Studio is their baby and Carrara their adopted child or wicked stepchild. It looks like they are trying to build a solid core of features in DS but it still depends on plugins for some basic things. Carrara needs dynamic cloth and more refinement of the features it does have. If Genesis doesn't work as good in Carrara as it does in DS, then that will be a problem.

    Hi romancefantasy,

    I appreciate we're the long lost cousin nobody ever talks about and everyone ignores, but where does that leave us kin folk.

    Your possibly right about Genesis, but it truly doesn't worry me as a much as other technical advancements that have taken place around the 3d society as a whole and not adopted by DAZ for Carrara and never will be I fear.

    Thanks for you input.

  • chris poolechris poole Posts: 124
    edited December 1969

    akulla3D said:
    This is all so annoying. Seems like everything is just falling apart, and that some sales guy/girl is running the show at DAZ. Instead of creating a quality piece of software (as I started on DAZ Studio back in the beta days when it really was a good app). And someone decided they could make more money out of the new system. Steve Jobs had it right when he said Engineers should make the decisions, as all sales people care about is their sales ego and how to screw people into spending more money. Why am I even waisting my time here.

    Hi akulla3D,

    We'll that was annoying, I typed you a reply and it just vanished.

    I don't feel I'm waisting my time on Carrara, it's still usable and capable, but it's the huge amount of time and effort you have to put in to achieve something that realtime game engines do in realtime.
    If it was free we couldn't really complain, but as it is I feel we should be seeing something extra than DAZ Studio and Blender get on a regular basis etc..

    Chris

  • VengedVenged Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I got into DS because of Character Creation Kit for my own video game and the price (free). At first I did not how to use it so I did not appreciate it. I love Daz now. Becasue I got into doing my own character models in addition to using Daz characters I ended up getting Carrara for that and for getting deaper into CG. I found Carrara 8 to be much easier to use than Blender, 3ds Max, and few other similar programs. So for me it is like comparing apples to oranges. I feel Daz studio has it's uses and strong points and so does Carrara 8. even though they may overlap in many areas when they are different programs that cater to slightly different demographic of users. for my needs I need them both. I also have Poser 2012 now and still use Daz as well. All these work together good but may not be the best main tool for what your interest is or project at the time.

    I was able to model things easier in Carrara than any other program I have tried, and I tried many. Game Character rigging in Carrara is so easy for me than in other programs.
    I look forward to Carrara 8.5. I am also using Hexagon and love it.

    i'm still very new to Game Development and CG. Thanks to these programs, Torque 3d, and unity3D I'm getting things done and just having the time of life.

    I recommend a Carrara Book called Carrara 5 pro handbook. This forum pointed me to it. It is great. Also even though never got as far with Blender, the book on Blender that I was using recommends that you own Daz3D so you save time on modeling base figures, hands, ect and spend time more wisely building on those .obj files.

    We are in good hands with all the Daz3D programs including Carrara. I feel the money I spent on Carrara 8 Pro was a good investment.

    I didn't mention Bryce because I still have not tried it but I got it free. Thanks Daz

    Robert

    Well that's my two cents. LOL

  • MiloMilo Posts: 511
    edited December 1969

    I will join in the chorus here as well. I feel like I wonder if Carrara will be worth continuing to pursue. I love the software. But it seems to be getting left further behind, and some of the advances that have been made haven't been updated or cleaned up made more efficient or keep up either. I tried painting, and hair. Laaaaaaaaaaaag on a decent quad system with butt loads of ram and a fairly new video card. I see all the nice included add ons for DS. I can't use bring myself to use DS once I got Carrara. I keep hoping. I mean we pay money for both the product (and buy content), at least it should keep on par with some of the free software out there :D Integrating the Carrara products within the Program directory still... makes upgrading a pain at the least.

  • VengedVenged Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Despite the praise that I gave Carrara earlier in regard to some things being easier, it is of no use to me now. The FBX expoter and the Collada exporter barley work if at all. The money I spent on Carrara 8 pro is a total waste. This software has great potential but no support from Daz3d at all. I'll be saving up for a non student version of 3ds max. I'll go my game character rigging in Character Studio in 3ds max.

    I still have use for Daz studio but I really wish I could have refund for Carrara. How can they advertise that there pipeline to Unity and demonstrate or verify before release.

    After wasting 16 hours i'm done. No more. The only time I did get a character out of Carrara and into Daz was after going through U3D, 3ds max then finally into Unity. With 3ds Max I can go straight to the game engine.

    What a load of false advertising. I should tried the export before learning how to rigg in Carrara. i like the rigging in C8 but it is useless if I can't get out to Unity.

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 3,311
    edited December 1969

    One of the main issues with both FBX and Collada is that they are "Open" formats, so, there are different version of them, different programs are able to open some versions and will distort other versions, or not load them at all.
    Fortunately, on the Autodesk site,. they've seen this as an issue, and have an FBX "Converter" which can be used to get your FBX into a different version format that your Unity app may open easier.

    Having used 3DMax Character studio, and Physique, .. Carrara is much easier and faster to rig and weight in.

    just my 2 pence :)

  • VengedVenged Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    3DAGE said:
    One of the main issues with both FBX and Collada is that they are "Open" formats, so, there are different version of them, different programs are able to open some versions and will distort other versions, or not load them at all.
    Fortunately, on the Autodesk site,. they've seen this as an issue, and have an FBX "Converter" which can be used to get your FBX into a different version format that your Unity app may open easier.

    Having used 3DMax Character studio, and Physique, .. Carrara is much easier and faster to rig and weight in.

    just my 2 pence :)

    I agree that the rigging and weight painting is easier in Carrara. Since the FBX and Collada don't work for rigged models it is just is not worth it.

  • VengedVenged Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I have some time to catch up on my rest. While I am disappointed in the Carrara Team for the lack demonstrations and verification that FBX export works as advertised, for the price and the many rich features, and ease of use I and going to stick with it be patient in hopes a future update in 8.5 or sooner will correct the problems. I have found was that work 50% of time to get around it. Basically you can use Save as, not export, to Collada (Don't select Daz Collada) and select every thing in the scene accept the camera and light. Sometimes that will export the rigged character. Open it in Student version of 3ds Max and export as FBX for unity.

    I am trying to screen capture a stable repeatable demonstration of this to share on the forum to help others.

    My self education in CG and Game design/development improved a lot thanks the many free tools Daz3d gave us prior to my buying Carrara. I'm thankful for that. No more all nighters trying to make sometime work though. LOL

    Robert

  • VengedVenged Posts: 0
    edited June 2012

    welchrs64 said:
    I have some time to catch up on my rest. While I am disappointed in the Carrara Team for the lack demonstrations and verification that FBX export works as advertised, for the price and the many rich features, and ease of use I and going to stick with it be patient in hopes a future update in 8.5 or sooner will correct the problems. I have found was that work 50% of time to get around it. Basically you can use Save as, not export, to Collada (Don't select Daz Collada) and select every thing in the scene accept the camera and light. Sometimes that will export the rigged character. Open it in Student version of 3ds Max and export as FBX for unity.

    I am trying to screen capture a stable repeatable demonstration of this to share on the forum to help others.

    My self education in CG and Game design/development improved a lot thanks the many free tools Daz3d gave us prior to my buying Carrara. I'm thankful for that. No more all nighters trying to make sometime work though. LOL

    Robert

    I found a repeatable work around. I will post this in it's own Topic to help others. Please see the pics for getting a rigged Carrara Character from C8 to FBX format. All in all I'm still happy with Carrara because I can rigg and model faster which means a lot to a beginner like me(-:

    Image removed by a moderator till resized...please see this thread for info: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/510_98/

    Post edited by fixmypcmike on
  • VengedVenged Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    welchrs64 said:
    welchrs64 said:
    I have some time to catch up on my rest. While I am disappointed in the Carrara Team for the lack demonstrations and verification that FBX export works as advertised, for the price and the many rich features, and ease of use I and going to stick with it be patient in hopes a future update in 8.5 or sooner will correct the problems. I have found was that work 50% of time to get around it. Basically you can use Save as, not export, to Collada (Don't select Daz Collada) and select every thing in the scene accept the camera and light. Sometimes that will export the rigged character. Open it in Student version of 3ds Max and export as FBX for unity.

    I am trying to screen capture a stable repeatable demonstration of this to share on the forum to help others.

    My self education in CG and Game design/development improved a lot thanks the many free tools Daz3d gave us prior to my buying Carrara. I'm thankful for that. No more all nighters trying to make sometime work though. LOL

    Robert

    Opps the first and second Pic are out of order


    I found a repeatable work around. I will post this in it's own Topic to help others. Please see the pics for getting a rigged Carrara Character from C8 to FBX format. All in all I'm still happy with Carrara because I can rigg and model faster which means a lot to a beginner like me(-:

    Image removed by a moderator till resized...please see this thread for info: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/510_98/

  • VengedVenged Posts: 0
    edited June 2012

    3DAGE said:
    One of the main issues with both FBX and Collada is that they are "Open" formats, so, there are different version of them, different programs are able to open some versions and will distort other versions, or not load them at all.
    Fortunately, on the Autodesk site,. they've seen this as an issue, and have an FBX "Converter" which can be used to get your FBX into a different version format that your Unity app may open easier.

    Having used 3DMax Character studio, and Physique, .. Carrara is much easier and faster to rig and weight in.

    just my 2 pence :)

    @3DAGE, I stand Corrected your are so right. I did rigg my toon in Character Studio and it works but it was a pain in the behind. In the end I ended up importing it back to Carrara where i easily fixed all the weight painting. I also rigged a duplicate in Carrara and imports to Unity as FBX just fine. I love Carrara. I just have to remember I am a Newbie so some times it is not the fault of the software, It turns out that Carrara won't give you the export option if your scene has some defect that won't import. If you do a save as and save as a FBX anyway, you get bad results and end up up all night like I did a few days ago, learned a lot though. LOL

    I was glad to to learn 3ds Max Character Studio but I will be doing all my rigging and weight painting in Carrara.

    My Char on youtube is below

    http://youtu.be/dCBXra4S2XA

    Thanks for your response

    Robert

    Post edited by Venged on
  • 0oseven0oseven Posts: 626
    edited December 1969

    chris poole said:

    I appreciate they are plugins, but like blender they attract these awesome programers because it's given away free, if it wasn't for Fenric and Sparrowhawke etc etc.. *** We'd have next to nothing.
    I could pull my! hair out, is it just me?
    Chris

    Well the Studio plugins arent free !

    *** Dont forget plugins for Carrara from Inagoni and Digtal Carvers adding lots more fuctionality

    Inagoni have just cut their prices by 50% http://www.inagoni.com/news.php

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