The future of carrara
Silent Rage Design
Posts: 5
I love Carrara, please don't forget it.I've used it since its beginning.Dad Studio has promise but it's a cheap alternative. Please please continue to develop Carrara,it's my main software to use. It's perfect,Just integrate the day studio features and we are all prepared to pay for that.
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I am sure they are working on it, they have limited resources so it takes time.
But the internals of Carra are very very different compared to DS so don't expect any big transfer of features from DS to Carrara any day soon and you actually have most things you need in Carrara, G2 works to some extent and with some G3 support it would be pretty cool, but it would need a new file format (saving to DUF maybe...), saving everything in a single CAR file is a disaster, In the end I spent 20% of my time loading or saving scenes so I had to give up.
I'm working with Genesis, so it's even worse. I spend about 30% of my time loading and saving files. It's a horrible, horrible waste of time.
See this thread.
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/80146/so-is-there-a-carrara-9-coming-at-all/p1
Agreed. I have given up on DUF format products and Genesis in Carrara. Poser format (and, of course, Carrara format) products still work seamlessly in almost all cases. So almost all the new products at DAZ are of no interest to me.
I am using Genesis and G2 in Carrara but I dont have as many skills as some of the others do. I find it just depends on the item you are trying to utilize.
If there is a Poser version I tend to use that but in some cases I have found the DUF version to work better for what I am doing.
+1
+2, with limitations. As much as I love using those, I still enjoy the ease of using Generation 4! ;) But I do have some nice Genesis and Genesis 2 things going on as well.
I'm sure that they aren't.
Sure they are ;)
I appreaciate your optimisim Dart but I belive it is misplaced. There is no way they are working on a v.9 at this point. It's not like we've asked them for a specific release date or a list of new features. We just want to know, will there be a v.9 or not? It's a simple question with a simple answer. Yes or no?
If I'm wrong, I'll be the first in line to buy a copy but I don't think that I am.
Thanks TGS808! Carrara Optimism = Me... but you probably already knew that, huh? ;)
Here's the thing that I truly understand now, after taking some serious time, asking some serious questions to just the right people... etc.,
That's their BIG Game.
So DAZ Studio is really a wonderful thing for dealing with the DAZ figure - especially the latest and greatest of their technology, like the Genesis 3 line and the latest animals and such. What it does NOT excel at is being a fully-blown 3D CGI platform. Heck... it can't even load in video footage without the assistance of external scripts - but at least there's that.
It does keep growing. It's getting better and better as the community and their staff learn its workings and push it into new directions.
=========================================================================
Now we have Carrara - a really cool piece of software that they probably bought for the only reason as to keep that other company from getting it.
What can you do in Carrara? Nope. The question is: "What Cannot you do in Carrara?"
The answer is not easy, because it's so flexible that ingenuity can most often come up with a way to get done what we need done in Carrara.
The time came where it was very obvious that Carrara would need to go 64 bit if it was to survive for much longer. What did DAZ 3D do? They've busted their proverbial asses arses and got it done - adding some pretty cool new features along the way.
Genesis came along. DAZ 3D does want their figures to work in as many platforms as possible. That's a big part of the business too - one that I haven't mentioned above. Probably because this is the best place to bring it up, because this is where I say the following:
DAZ 3D definitely wants us to be able to use Genesis 3 - period. Carrara has a lot more faithful users than any one of us, here on the forum, could possibly conceive. Really.
So, I'm not sure if they'll be calling it Carrara 9 or whatever, but I do feel very, very optimistic that DAZ 3D is working on Carrara, which is not an easy task - especially when we're talking about gearing it up for a whole new rigging technology that it currently just doesn't understand. Speaking of not understanding... here's where I totally lose the ability to speak on the subject because I'm so far from being a coder that I would die if I had to write my way out with code - truly.
Anyways... yeah. We'll see another Carrara update/upgrade/version... whatever it is. And when we do... it will be cool!!!
That is all well and good but the fact remains that you are simpley speculating and making assumptions based on nothing.
All they have to do is let us know they are working on it. Not a feature list. Not a date. Just a yes or no. It is a simple question and they should respect their user base enough to answer it rather than keep us all in the dark.
All they have to do is say: "Yes, we are. Please be patient but know it is in the works. That's all we can say for now". That gives away nothing but it builds trust and gives the user base a reason to stick around.
Or they could say: "No. We are no longer developing further versions of Carrara but thank you for being part of the community of users".
The fact that they will not answer is much closer to a "no" than it is to a "yes".
Dart, don't leave me out! Optimistic = Me also. :)
TGS808, I've heard much the same. Lately I did here that the Carrara Devs are busy working on Carrara. Which is still not a definite yes/no answer to it's future.
I'll be very happy to see even a Carrara 8.6 or later. There are plenty of features to either fix or improve... My hopes are up.
Absolutely. It would be nice to have an Official voice come in and give us at least some kind of news. I totally agree.
Like I said to the community the last time there were complaints that "We don't hear from DAZ", so often when Spooky comes in here to start giving us news, people swarm him and treat him like total crap. Right after I said that, Spooky came on and gave a statement - immediately attacked... immediately. His come back to that was - I knew this wouldn't be fun at all. Hey... folks... I'm not the person responsible for that... I'm just here telling you what I'm allowed to tell you... or something similar. He kept getting bashed and bashed. And it's all stuff that you and me already know not to pester Spooky about. Stuff that you write DAZ 3D about - not attack someone like Spooky, for crying out loud. Drove me nuts, as it did to others. We tried to swarm back and protect him and help make him feel welcome, but you know how well fresh air puts out a fire, right? It doesn't. Just makes it worse.
So I came back and said: You folks want information and still you treat the messenger like this? Good luck getting anything in the future.
After the official release came out, he came in to answer a few questions once in a while and then disappeared. And I really can't blame him. When it's just us and the moderators, we all seem to get along pretty well.
I got so upset about the whole ordeal that DAZ actually told me to just relax and let them be.
So I did. I disappeared too... for a little while.
It's a shame too. Before all of that, Spooky used to come in and say Hi now and again. I bet he'd get along just fine with the usual group we have here now - but he doesn't know that. Perhaps I'll write him a letter.
Dart, great idea.
Many months ago i had the feeling that Daz were working on integration of Genesis 3 into Carrara. I wasn't expecting much else, but at least that would ensure Carrara users could buy and use all the new products they have coming out. But there has been nothing for months, it is over a year since G3 was launched and even I am starting to doubt that it will ever happen, in the absence of any feedback to the contrary. Carrara is still my 3d program of choice, so at least it makes buying decisions very easy - oh, that's for G3, so I can't use it. Oh, that's for iRay, so I can't use it. Not sure that that is what Daz ideally wants as I am sure they want to sell content, but maybe they view the costs of developing Carrara as not justified by the amount of stuff that Carrara users would buy ( and this despite the survey we held last year that showed just how much content was bought by Carrara users).
My optimisim had diminished to barely a spark, but it's still there.
This from an article dated February 10th, 2012(!) - "DAZ 3D: why we gave our software away for free"
"One notable absentee from the line-up was Carrara, DAZ’s 3D modelling, rendering and animation software. Farr commented that Carrara 9 was expected to ship within the next month or two, and would be the first version of the software to support the company’s new Genesis line of 3D figures, introduced with DAZ Studio 4." (emphasis mine)
Obviously, something happened, but I believe a dusty copy of Carrara 9 is languishing deep in the decrepit basement of DAZ HQ, hidden in an abandoned broken desk or something...Perhaps a brave intern or two could go exploring with a flashlight and poke around...
I believe the term is colonoscope
I hear you Phil ,. and I agree,. but there's a really messed up issue here ,.
Carrara users only purchase Carrara content. ! (and we've all seen Daz3D claiming this)
we all know how crazy that is,. since no user of any 3D software is limited to purchasing models or assets from any provider, or (made for use in a specific package)
So why do all official communications from Daz focus on something which isn't true,. that "Carrara doesn't sell enough content to justify the cost of development".
the answer seems to be that marketing idiots with no "Working" knowledge of 3D software, decide what Daz3D does,. and when it does it.
Does abandoning the development of your software products benefit a company trying to sell software products. ?
Carrara users are DAZ3D's Customers,.
Daz Studio,. isn't the only source of income for Daz3D,. but it will be the breaking point for the rest of Daz3D's customers. (IMO)
There are people who want to use 3D software for more than provocitavely dressing up a dolly,. but mass market and titilation seems to be the chosen pathway for this company now.
The priority of all things Daz3D is, Studio. ,. if it's not Studio,. it's not a priority.
I've now stopped purchasing anything from here.
I'll continue to use Carrara as my main 3D program of choice for as many years as by system can handle. (unless there's a newer version at some point in time)
but my focus now is on learning 3D-Coat and Z-Brush which i can use to build assets for use in Carrara
rather than waiting for Daz3D to do anything to improve their product range.
I have to agree, with no word from DAZ in many many months regarding G3 integration, I have little hope left that G3 will be integrated into Carrara. I also have very little hope that we will ever see a Carrara 9. It's sad to see such a great program go by the way side, but I guess there really isn't anything I can do about it other than complain, which I have grow tired of and only makes me more upset about the situation.
As a result, I do use DS more now, but also spend less time using any DAZ products than I used to. This has also affected my buying here, but I'm sure that doesn't really matter or have any real effect on the bottom line. DS is a great software, unfortunately it's missing some great features found in Carrara. It's unfortunate that there is no other general purpose 3D software that can use DAZ/Poser content as well as Carrara.
At the end of the day, it is what it is, if a new version of Carrara comes out, FANTASTIC! However, I'm no longer optimistic that this will happen, and am finding it increasingly more difficult to put much energy into Carrara feeling that it has most likely been abandoned by DAZ. I wish I didn't feel this way, but as I said earlier, "It is what it is", and DAZ really hasn't given me any good reasons to boost my optimism in months.
Yes, I used to quote the Daz forum post about G3 integration to Carrara and say "make of it what you will." Now I would have to say "but that was quite a while ago and there has been no further communication."
Nope. Carrara more than pays for itself, I'm sure. We need to remember that the new D|S was built around this new Genesis technology, Carrara wasn't. It takes a lot longer - especially with what is likely only one or two devs (?) to get this stuff working in Carrara.
I hear ya... I really do. I hope you're wrong... but I also understand.
It really kinda bites to NEVER have a DAZ_xxx member come in this forum and ever say anything. Bites!
I'll stay here, and keep buying my stuff, since there's still a lot of Carrara-compatible stuff to be had by me. My Runtimes aren't nearly as overflowing as yours are.
Man, you two and Dustrider, and DesertDude, and others... I really respect you guys. I do with all my heart. We're like family here.
Well... as Sad pointed out, Blender is getting a rigged figure platform thingy now, and there's MakeHuman... who knows? Maybe they could use some help?
I just got a whole pile of stuff from DAZ 3D yesterday, and it's all good to go in Carrara with possibly one exception being a DUF-only freebie. Those DUF-only things that I get, I install them to the usual default place where my Genesis stuff goes, and there it sits ignored for now. One day I'll have to break into trying DUF stuff more often in Carrara.
Hmmm... I'll keep waving the flag of optimism!
Star Wars keeps everything under lock and key until it's released. Look at the world-wide frenzy that stirs up!!!
Star Wars, Game of Thrones. Etc. do announce additional movies and additional seasons. They keep the script secret to the extent they can. They don't want complete silence. Hollywood wants to create "buzz." Daz is making sure Carrara has no buzz. I hope they improve Carrara, even if it is just G3F and G3M integration. Time will tell.
On the positive side, the VWD program with Philemo's Carrara plugin has made G2F and G2M figures awesome in Carrara, including modeling loose clothes for character shapes like Aiko6 or Gianni, which generally get shrink wrapped look using the transfer utility unless even more tedious steps taken. My current Carrara usage is alive and well.
Yup... Point well made... or... made well? Yes. I, too, wish that I at least knew something.
I can't wait to get those. I won't use them as much as most of you whom are tearing up that thread... but I do want to get it and support the cause!
Me too!
Even if there was no update/upgrade, I'll likely continue to Carrara! I probably have enough content now where I could take the path fore mentioned by 3dage. With the addition of RDNA's stuff to the store, I'm finding a whole new outlet for shopping... but soon I'll have all of that, too.
I think that some of those artists are going to keep making stuff for Generation 4 figures, however... it's probably a good move for many Poser users and whatnot.
...and I certainly do NOT intend to say that anyone is wrong in their opinions or theories of the future of Carrara. I really, Really DO NOT!
I'm am just a big ol' DAZ 3D fan. I really enjoy how they're constantly trying to push forward into the field. I do. I really wish that they would just include Carrara in those plans as well. If they only knew how formidable this software would be if they pushed it forward right along with their other future plans - even if it meant a major re-write.
I'm sure that they could find, within their own staff, the brilliance needed to put some real snap into Carrara. Not the tid bits that I was talking about... but stuff that myself, Phil, Ringo, and many others have formally requested. Stuff that could bring this baby along side Modo so we could shoot proverbial cannons at it! Stuff that would get Carrara into all of the 3D World, 3D Artist and other major publications like it was in the past.
The very first 3D Artist magazine has Carrara 7 Pro in review. It was just a short snap shot, and the disc came with Carrara 6 Pro on it, but that's something... it's getting Carrara some well-deserved recognition, even though it got some not-so-well-deserved negativity regarding its modeling capabilities, in my opinion.
Still... I feel that DAZ 3D has some incredibly talented development staff. Top notch in the industry even. It is my wish - and I truly hope that it does come true - that they put some of that incredible talent to work on our beloved machine that is Carrara! That's all.
I do feel the same unfortunate disgruntlement towards how much they completely ignore this thread, though.
"You didn't tell him about the missing Jedi"
"No need to report that... until we have something to report!" - Star Wars Episode I - The Phantom Menace
Hey Dart! Definitely appreciate your optimism! I hope it comes true, as I am also a big fan of DAZ 3D (though becoming a bit more disalusioned with the way they are handling this whole Carrara thing).
I was optimistic for a long time. While plugins to Octane Render and Virtual World Dynamics help to keep Carrara relevant, I'm finding it increasingly difficult to put my money where my mouth is, and invest in addons to a software that appears to have been put on the self and moth balled. I'm very interested in VWD, but haven't purchased it for the very simple reason that Carrara seems to have been abandoned by DAZ.
Keep in mind I was always the first to jump in and defend Carrara when people were dissing it saying you couldn't use Genesis and Genesis 2 in Carrara (or couldn't do other things it actually could). I bought Octane Render for DS so I could learn the ins and outs of Octane prior to the release of the Carrara plugin (then got lucky enough to be on the beta team). Heck, when DAZ said they were working on G3 in Carrara, I began to buy more G3 stuff. I had my own brand of optimism, thinking that if I showed people that Genesis and G2 were really usable in Carrara, and that the awesome power of Octane Render was available for Carrara, then the general DS user base, and more importantly, DAZ 3D would see what a great tool Carrara was for using DAZ 3D content. Unfortunately, now I feel that all of those efforts were ...... well .... simply wasted.
I understand business is business, and that Carrara may not generate the revenue stream (or appear to generate the revenue stream) that keeps the higher ups, and the Board of Directors happy. But I also think that a lot of this "lack of consumer support" can be squarely placed on DAZ 3D's shoulders. They never really had a plan for Carrara, it doesn't fit into their business model, and they simply fail (failed) to see how they could profit from continued development (never mind that it is the ONLY general purpose 3D software that can easily consume their content - based on my own testing, contrary to DAZ 3D claims, Genesis anything is not easily usable in Maya or 3DS Max - I could be wrong due to my lack of skills with them, but highly doubt it). It's a market niche that they have they already software to fill - Carrara. But, it would take investment in software development, training materials, fixing their materials conversion, marketing, and coordination with DS development. Of course, I think it would be worth it, but maybe (probably) DAZ 3D doesn't. They may possibly have new tools a features planned for DS 5.x that would give DS users many of the tools that Carrara has, which would be great. Or they may actually be working on Carrara 9, but who knows.
The bottom line for me though is that I have grown weary of the deafening silence and lack of progress from DAZ with regard to Carrara. I still love it, and am actually currently using it to generate a video for a museum exhibit for a National Park/World Heritage Site (an actual paying gig). However due to the current lack of communication from DAZ 3D regarding Carrara, I feel as if any further investment in Carrara (time learning or $$$) is a bit like throwing money/time down a rat hole. Projects like the one I'm currently working on could also be easily completed in Blender, Vue, or any of the other major 3D applications if I was as familiar with them as Carrara. If I were to begin investing time (and possibly $$$) in Blender, Vue, or even Maya, I would feel like I'm investing wisely learning and using an active and growing product, with future potential as new technology is developed. Not so much with Carrara.
Anyway, I hope I'm 100% wrong, and DAZ comes through with at least G3 compatibility. Then I would probably gladly invest in VWD!