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I'm Still with you Dart :)
I intend to use Carrara for as long as I have a system capable of running it,. and I've bought into Octane and VWD,. and I agree with diomede,. that these new products have breathed new life into Carrara,. Note: to Daz3D,.. ( products for your products,... and you don't sell them ) ,... Doh !
I'm hoping that someone in Daz makes some real development changes,. because Carrara is a really good 3D suite,. although,.. the amount of work it'll need to bring it in line with the current competition increases each day.
It's the dumbest decision I've ever seen from a retailer ,. (with the exception of developing and releasing products which don't work in your own software)
Ignore your paying customers and software development, in favour of customers using your free software,. who inevitably reach the limitations of that software and move on to Blender or other free 3D software,. or purchase another full price 3D suite,. (NOT FROM DAZ3D) because their own 3D software remains underdeveloped, unsupported, under appreciated, and undermined by it's owners.
so,. great,. you get people interested in 3D for free,. and then they move on to spend the real money elsewhere.
No buy-in,.. no customer loyalty.
It makes more sense to have a product range where your customers can stay with you, for the entire journey,. but that means developing all of your software range,. and perhaps even expanding it to cover Video/ VFX, Audio editors,,. since those are "next logical steps" in this creative process.
Carrara users have waited for any sign of development,. and many will continue to hope that someone at this company grows a pair. and spends some time and effort on Carrara, and Bryce,.to realise their potential.
Q: How many studio users facing the same scenario of,.. (lack of development, no support for your own latest figures, sparce and vague communication) would still be here after a year.?
Q: how many would continue to buy products in the hope of those eventually working in Carrara.
Although I am optimistic that DAZ will be releasing an upgrade/update, I still agree that it's a BIG mistake to not communicate and to not continuously develop this wonderful 3D powerhouse. I agree 100%!
I mean... even in its (Carrara's) current state, I'd rather be working in it and Howler, then to HitFilm or Fusion, than to use Max or Maya or any other 3D software, for that matter. It just does stuff the way I like doing things. So then there's that, too. Many DAZ employees use and are happy using Carrara. So I think they DO realize how wonderful it is... perhaps they just don't know what to do with it?
This discussion needs an image
Dustrider - in addition to Carrara, VWD works in Poser (without an added interface plugin) and will soon work in DS with a Philemo plugin, so any investment in it will have cross platform support. And this and Octane Render have transformed my experience of working in Carrara.
I hear a buzz, its like the sound I get on the window sill using aerosol spray to take down unwanted intruders.
I have been guilty of buying a bit of G3F & M stuff for iClone where it actually works quite well, DS for me is just an intermediatory convertor.
I use DS a lot to make stuff Carrara compatible too.
Using transfer utility to convert G3F/M stuff and GenX.
I rarely render in it, its a tool.
Although for different stuff... yeah, me too! As a matter of fact, when doing so and I get stuck... who do I ask? Her! (Wendy)
Well if Cararra 9 doesn't doesn't come around then I'll just have to learn to export Genesis 3 models to Blender. As I goof around with Unity from time to time that isn't a big problem but seeing as I have interest in animating for animating's sake it would be a disapointment if DAZ 3D doesn't update Carrara to do that natively.
Agreed. Genesis 3 has some incredible (or so it may seem) animation qualities
Hi Phil! VWD does definitely look good, and well worth the price. I don't use Poser much any more, in fact for the first time since Poser 3 I didn't upgrade, it had too many problems and felt "rushed out the door" The DS plugin will make VWD more attractive, but then there is the GPU accelerated cloth plugin in development for DS that looks real interesting too.
I agree 100%, the Octane plugin has completely transformed the user experience with Carrara - in a VERY positive way.
Hi 3DAGE! couldn't agree more. I think they've made a huge mistake in the way that Carrara has been handled.
I realize that the GUI/programming environment for Carrara is quite challenging. But that's why you can't have occasional or part time developers. It takes too long the get someone up to speed, or back up to speed, which adds a lot to the cost of development. Of course it's easy to be an arm chair quarterback, and a lot different to be in their shoes.
I just wish they would communicate a bit more on the future of Carrara. I don't think they have a clue as to how many users and potential users they have chased away to other products. I know if I end up with a commercial replacement rather than Blender, then my buying here will dwindle be almost nothing. If I'm paying a big price for alternative 3D software, I definitely won't have the budget or time to use anything from here other than an occasional prop.
Given the current situation, I'm always very hesitant to recommend Carrara to anyone.
I played around with Houdini 3D a couple of months ago...Their wave generating abilitiy is quite impressive. However the complexitiy of the software is a long study and requires complete dedication. It uses the node system..quite intimidating at first. I don't believe that there are any casual users for this software. Carrara by contrast is putty in your hands....or is it marble... It is a far more intuitive interface combined with a host of convenient drop in figures. It should if promoted have a wide appeal and a healthy market. Instead DAZ has chosen to neglect/abandon Carrara....and has done so in an infomation vacuum. This vacuum is intentional not negligent. Why is this ? DAZ wants you to continue to use Carara so that you buy items from their store...ekeing out this market to the last drop. So whats next ?
Carrara is convenient 3D package that has no equal and as such can be used for years to come - as it is. I have used Infini D (the parent of Carrara) for years and I still use it to make items which it is best suited for..it is fast and simple with a spline modeler and texturing map method that still can't be beat. It is a tool to be used. I plan on learning Carrara thoroughly.. as it is the best tool for my forseeable needs. I did not buy it for its upgrades but for what it can do. I would buy it again tomorrow as is with no upgrades - ever. It is a bargain today and will be a bargain for some years to come. And would not hesitate to reccomend it to others who have similar needs. The largest shortcoming that will eventually effect us, is I suspect, the mimicing of the real world with regards to flexible items such as hair and fabric...If this can be accomplished with plugins..then the future is not bleak at all. We have years of fun ahead of us....... and some amazing renders.
VWD works well to plug the hole that was cloth simulation and it works well on polygon hairs as well to give them some movement. And Carrara hair can be animated well with the use of proxies rather than colliding with a complex figure. So I would say that these bases are already covered.
Phil,
I am looking forward to trying VWD when a mac version becomes available. You window guys get all the fun. I have been following the thread on its application. In the meantime I have lots to learn and keep me busy, such as the caustics..I would like to play around with that when time is available...
I was going to buy it this month but all I found at the Big R is VWD Cloth & Hair? Is the the plugin I need for Poser Pro 2014, Carrara 8.5, & DAZ Studio 4.9? Or is this Philemo plugin needed in addition? So how many plugins in all to get it working in those 3 programs? Thanks.
Thats it... by VirtualWorldDynamics... I assume that by Poser 9+ it would cover your version of Poser Pro 2014... but might be wrong. You do need Philemo's plugin to use it in Carrara... I believe there is an upcomming plugin from Philemo for DS 4.9.
Is Philemo at the Big R? Where do I buy Philemo's plugin? Thanks.
go to the Big R and do a vendor search for Philemot - notice the extra t at the end of his name over there
and you shall find
I haven't bought it as I thought it was for animation and not stills, but seeing Headwax's renders I may be interested in getting the set of tools..
Not me! I recommend Carrara to anyone and everyone whom might be interested in making their own Home CGI movies.
Don't take this the wrong way, my friend. I agree with what you've said as well... all the way up to the end.
However, just to add some sideways thinking to this whole thing:
I have this illness called Starving Artist/Shopper Syndrome - Sass for short. In not having the constant development is kind of a blessing to me. It already does the stuff I need it to do, and the internet is still brimming with stuff that works in it. Howler, HitFilm, Fusion, and any number of other things that are designed to deal with the output's next phase are constantly being developed and updated. It's almost like they're keeping my whole workflow evolving while leaving my Carrara the way it is for me to just keep figuring out more and more of its already deep functionality. Even low-cost upgrades are hard for me to grab - not that I would have to... so I don't mean to say that, because of me, we should keep a hault on progress - not at all! When Carrara gets updated, I move heaven and earth to buy the latest and greatest... I simply have to!
But -
After all of the constant development of other 3D software offerings that vastly surpass Carrara in cost and reputation, they still can't give me the workflow that Carrara allows me to enjoy! It just works... or it doesn't, which means we have to come up with any one of five million optional work-arounds.
Friends of mine still enjoy showing me cool new up-and-coming features of their software of choice. It's funny how I'm always thinking to myself: "Really? New? We can do that in Carrara!"
Now I'm not trying to put Carrara up against those other softwares. No. Those high and higher-end 3D apps are really pushing the boundaries further and further away and are nothing short of amazing. I really do feel that way about them - even to a point where I'll often fantasize saving up and buying one of them.
Then I wake up and remember that I am just me! The folks using Maya are working in teams. One person builds the mesh. Someone else Unwraps it so that someone else can map the UVs. Then several others create the textures. Another team altogether are rigging the thing for animation needs... and it goes on and on.
That is a wonderful thing. These crews all work together to get everything done according to specs that are handed down several parts of the hierachy.
My hierarchy is I do this then I do that so that I will be able to do this later. I lack a producer and even lack interest in having one. The biggest hurdle for me right now is that I am also the writer, and I keep forgetting to stick with that task. LOL
But it really help me to have a single piece of software that can do SO MUCH!
Even if all the other person wants to do is to have a platform for making art for their D&D (or other roleplay game) Character Sheets, Campaign designs, Dungeon/Game Master art handouts or table mats... one huge thing that sets Carrara apart from Poser or D|S (or others) is it's beautiful collection of modelers!
When I was working with early versions of my Rosie character, I really needed a modeler - not to model, but to tweak the models that I downloaded for free. I didn't have the time or the inclination to model everything myself, nor could I find exactly what I needed - since it was a very custom look I was going for.
After buying Carrara, my shopping took an entirely different style. I started looking for models that could be tweaked into working how I wanted them to be.
For example, the outfits from this image
were made using these products
and they didn't exactly work with the custom shapes I've created for my characters - Carrara made fitting them more than just a reality - but a pleasure!
This is where Rosie's hair comes from >>>
so I removed the feathers and head band - meaning that I had to tweak the hair line to fit the scalp. It wasn't thick enough or long enough, nor could I find a better hair figure (even still) to do the job on it's own. So I added a whole buch of custom shape morphs (even though it comes with a LOT!!), then added the conforming hair to the Rosie figure three times - customizing the actual mesh of each, so that instead of just overlapping, they twist among each other nicely.
Although we can do some really cool stuff in many other types of software... nothing does this sort of thing quite like Carrara!
Still, I also cannot part with Carrara's native render engine. I've always wanted to get my renders done fast and, at that time, my computer was not even close to the monster I've built specifically to run Carrara on - I like this software THAT MUCH!!!
Genesis was a little different for me to get used to tweking on in Carrara, but with some patience and practice, even that becomes less of an issue - and this was done while 8.5 was still deep in the Beta phase.
Anyways, all of that aside... Yes! I will and do recommend Carrara 8.5 Pro to anyone whom asks me about it - unless it truly isn't a good fit for their specific needs.
All in all, though... I still wish that DAZ 3D would take the development of Carrara a lot more seriously - if they're not already. I mean... who knows? Maybe they've had a guru working on it all along, and are just putting in so much cool stuff and fixing so many things that it's taking a limited sized (one person) team a l o n g time to get it done - along with a brand new, highly requested, updated manual to boot.
I choose to keep my head held high as a very proud Carraraist - optimistic about the future of this, most unique software!
I love you all and, if it seems like I don't agree with you... please know that I do respect you and your theories.
Ah, thanks. Google did not turn it up.
thanks Stezza, for VWD I still havn't read the directions , but Biscuits has good avi tuts for it (free at Rendo?) - which I still havent watched :) but apparently explain everything .
I think it's just a matter of playing around with it seriously for a few days to get used to it's idiosyncrasies
it really does need a set of presets like poser cloth room - but the Gerard the maker says that the presets would not help (can't recall why)
as far as the will there be a Car 9 question, I think no answer is better than an answer that says 'no' ;)
Even if you are only rendering stills and not animations, it is a very useful tool to have in your armoury. Here are a few ways that you could potentially use it:
- to give natural drape to clothes where there isn't a suitable morph available;
- to fit the clothes to an extreme pose, so a sitting pose for a skirt or dress for example;
- to avoid poke-through - get the cloth to stretch over the offending body parts;
- to help fit clothes intended for one figure onto another. If you can start with a version of your figure that fits inside the clothes (even by using a very thin starting character) and then morph over a few frames to the body shape and pose that you want. This isn't going to be very successful for extreme differences, but should be OK for one figure generation to another of a similar body shape.
I am sure that there are more potential uses, and that doesn't include the obvious animation possibilities.
How to find Big R. Nothing comes up google...except western ranches, etc.
I usually find the big R's looking over my shoulder in the mirror
you have to be careful too which Render_____ site you go to, one has plenty of R's and other things but very little if any cloth, dynamic or otherwise.
As far as what PhilW says those are very good reasons to buy VWD & the plugin from Philemot. I notice in my DAZ Studio renders the major thing holding back a realistic look is the drape of the clothing. If I where to do an FBMExpandAll and then drape with a tool like VWD that it'd look much better and unique for the pose the character is in. The plugin though for DAZ Studio with VWD is not yet complete from what I've read.
I get the feeling the DS plugin is quite close (no insider knowledge!).
Very cryptic I know..
Renderosity is a good word to google.. :-)
My 2 cents …
I agree with what Dartanbeck says and hope he is right … but I'm afraid my state of mind is more like PhilW's or Dustrider's.
I'm posting (I don't do it often :-) ) because I've noticed something that worries me a bit about Carrara's future. I think it's not a good sign.
It's about HowieFarkes. His products ('Secret Lake', 'Country lane'...) are one of the reasons I came to Carrara years ago. They're fantastic. They even work great in Octane, with very few modifications. And I noticed his 4 last products are ... for DS. The last one seems even to bring something that strongly looks like Carrara's replicators to DS. And he uses a lot replicators in his products.
Of course I may be wrong, but it gives me the impression that he is turning away from Carrara. That would mean a great creator of Carrara content is lost. And they are already not many.
I can understand why. Daz is pushing DS ... and, if I'm not mistaken, has not produced the slightest update nor say anything (officially) about Carrara in 3 years. It does not help to enlarge the number of potential customers for Carrara content, and so it does not encourages creators to make some ... rather the opposite.
I know, Carrara can use most of the content made for DS or Poser. And in Carrara you can do with this content more than you can do with DS or Poser. But, as the technology for the content evolves and not Carrara, it becomes increasingly difficult to use it. Genesis 3 is available for over one year now and does not really work in Carrara. Even Genesis 2 doesn't work perfectly (HD shaders). This will not help bringing new people to Carrara (if one tries and has too much trouble, he will go to DS or elsewhere). It may even discourage some that are already using Carrara (not me … at least not for the moment).
So less and less new content means less and less people coming to Carrara (and even Carrara users starting to leave it ...), so it becomes less and less interesting to create new content for it ... vicious circle.
So, if they are really still developing it (it seems so, but there's nothing official), I too think Daz really makes a big mistake by not saying anything. I understand it takes time to develop such a complex software, but they should at least say something to reassure people about Carrara's future. If they don't do it quickly, I'm afraid there will not be enough customers left to make it commercially viable when the new version finally comes out … making all the time and money they spent on development a complete waste ...
I hope I'm pessimistic (I usually am :-) ), for even if I'm only a hobbyist I do love Carrara and would hate to see it disappear. Come on, Daz, say something like "if all goes well there will be a first beta version available around the end of the year". That would make me (and many others I think :-) ) very happy.
Khris, from France.
I've been using Carrara for almost 20 years. Since the Raydream Designer days. Through Fractal Design, Metacreations, Eovia, and now Daz. The progress that has been made to this program since the beginning has been HUGE. I still use it as my main 3D application. I've refused to "master" other 3d applications because Carrara is so intuitive to me know. Having said that, it needs to continue to evolve. There are features that would put Carrara in the same realm as the expensive applications.
Regardless of what Daz does to Carrara, I will continue to use it as long as it's compatible with my work. No need to abandone it while it still works at a professional level. ;)
Well I don't think Howie Farkes or PhilW know alot more about Cararra's future than we do now. I sort of got the impression the PhilW & HowieFarkes & others had been beta testing in the past but that doesn't seem to be the case now. And now that they aren't beta testing maybe Cararra 9 is nearing completion and in regression testing.
Yeah, sure. That seems likely. And maybe unicorns are actually real.
Well you say no, I say yes, and neither of us knows who is right, so it's all hot air.
...at least hot air helps ballons rise... and that's a good thing, right?
Yeah... I think that, from a financial standpoint (which is very far from my realm of expertise) Daz 3d is less concerned with selling Carrara than they are with Carrara users being able to use theire content within it.
Luckily, however, there ARE Carrara fans whom work at Daz 3d. I mean, what's not to love?
PS: I'm really glad to learn that Unicorns are real. I've suspected for a long time now... but this really makes me happy!