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October 2016 New User Contest - Atmosphere (WIP Thread)

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  • ewcarmanewcarman Posts: 180

    I swapped in the Free-Spirit-Hair, which I've found so many uses for. Great Morphs. I think this looks a lot better (a few small tweaks as well).

    Defenistrat said:
    ewcarman said:

    I swapped in the Free-Spirit-Hair, which I've found so many uses for. Great Morphs. I think this looks a lot better (a few small tweaks as well).

    I think your pose, your lighting, the concept is all very beautiful. However, I think it could be more powerful. Not to say that it is not a powerful image, but a couple of things that might help make an impact.

    1. Her pose is beautiful, but the strongest focal point in the image is probably her arm, which is well lit and right in the middle of the top left focal point. While her pose is beautiful, I feel like it takes a while to take it in. It might be worth adjusting the camera or her position so that her torso is more the focal point. Frankly, I think you might have a challenge in putting her face or body in a focal point, without boxing her into the edge of the image. I don't know, I could be wrong here. Maybe somebody else should weigh in on that one.

    2. I don't think this is a pose that a character could be in for very long. Therefor, I feel that she is caught in motion. Her hair is in a really static position, like she has been standing like this for a while, but her body is off balance. I think her hair needs more motion.

    3. Lastly, her hair and parts of ther backside blend too well into the dark background, making it hard to see them. I only have a few tools in my 3D toolbox right now, so I probably say this too much, but I think she needs something to light up her back, whether that is just a subtle ambient light, or a powerful contrasting rim light, I don't know.

    Anyway, a list of three things... that feels like too much for an image that already looks this good. But they are just suggestions. However, how do you do those fireflies in your godrays? And are you using 3Delight or Iray? I have seen these on Iray images, and I have not been able to figure out how they are done, so I have actually been cheating and adding them in post work in GIMP, which feels a little dirty...

    @Defenistrat Thank you for your feedback! Good points all.I see what you mean by the hair. Honestly, I was so happy to get it to hang down that way, I didn't give it another thought. I'll have to see about adding some motion to it. There are a number of parts to this hair that I might be able to take bits and pieces and create an interesting effect. I really like this hair too, Once you tilt the head forwards or back, so many hairs have trouble morphing to show a little (or lot in this case) gravity.

    About the rim lights.... I've gone back and forth with adding them to this image. It is obviously lit from the source-on-high, so I'm not sure about adding other sources. I've actually got about 5 other lights in the scene - all turned off at the moment - that I've experimented with. But since this was something you noticed right away and I've been struggling to decide whether or not to do it, I suppose I should take another look.I suspect you are right and if I can get just a little highlight on her, it might really get her to pop. 

    For focal points, I agree that this is a difficult pose to put into hot-spots. I played with the camera at different angles - angled towards the front, back, etc. and finally settled on this. I guess it's more portrait? Good advice though and definitely worth a few more experiments.

    As for the fireflies in the light beams, I picked up Epic Godrays in the sales this last month and used that. I'm very happy with how easy it is to use and the effect it has on the image. I've done these before, using Sickleyield's tutorials, and they just didn't turn out this nice or easy. And this is an Iray image.

    Oh, and it's not cheating to use GIMP for a little post. smiley

  • Kismet2012Kismet2012 Posts: 4,252
    ewcarman said:

    I swapped in the Free-Spirit-Hair, which I've found so many uses for. Great Morphs. I think this looks a lot better (a few small tweaks as well).

    Yes it does...it looks amazing.

  • Kismet2012Kismet2012 Posts: 4,252
    dracorn said:

    I did some more adjustments to the lighting and removed the fog.  Not sure I like the fog for this render.  I'm thinking of putting in atmospheric effects in Photoshop.

    What do you think?

     

    Despite the issues you had with Above the Fog it looks better with some than without.  Play with Ron's brushes and see what you end up with.

  • Kismet2012Kismet2012 Posts: 4,252
    kanegs said:
    kanegs said:
    Defenistrat said:
    kanegs said:
    Ice Dragon Art said:
    kanegs said:

    Here's idea #2:

    That's pretty creepy (in a good way).  Do the doors open at all?  Right now his arm (my right) looks a bit like its floating because of the way the door cuts it up.  Maybe you could open it a bit more, or maybe have him grasping the door with his fingers curled around the edge to pull it open? 

    I made some posing changes, I'm not quit happy with my changes. I don't have a lot of room to work with. I need the window light behind him, and the doors in front of him.

    I also altered the lighting / godrays to speed up the rendering (last image took 40+ hours, this one a little over 2).

    So I didn't see the first render until I quoted the second image. That said, with this second darker image, when I saw it I felt this horrible sense of uneasyness, as something that I couldn't see very well looked like it was coming towards me...

    Then I went to comment on how your figure needs to be lighted more, and I saw your original image. In addition to feeling not just a sense of horror, but also a little disgust at his... almost shiney skin and slightly amorphous shape, I also thought "Why did they change from THAT?!"

    Meaning, I like your original one significantly better (personally). I just read what advice Sonja would have given you to put your scary creature in the dark (cause Sonja's really good, and was struggling to figure out why she would tell you to do that >_<), and I think she was more suggesting that the creature stay where it was, but maybe adjust the hand. It's not that it looks bad where it is, it's just that a little action, like the creature reaching out, or opening the door, or maybe hand on the glass, could really enhance it.

    I'm hesitent to add this, because I love where your creature is positioned in the image (still talking about your first render), but it might also be worth zooming in a little more. If you do so, you would want to make sure that it doesn't become too easy to make out the creature's features.

    Anyway, love it! Can't wait to see where this goes!

    Thanks for the suggestions. This next image was already rendering before I saw your comments. I added a mesh light to fill in a little bit.

    So I decided to take a step back... I went back to the original pose and just changed the arm and hand, then I moved the camera closer.

    Creepy.  That image defintely has an impact.

  • Donavon-2403837Donavon-2403837 Posts: 4
    edited October 2016

    Bath Time Interrupted by Meal Time

    GhoulCave

    Too subtle? Too risque? Hey, they're all naked!  I tried to cover all the naughty bits as best I could without compromising the scene. 

    In an earlier render, you couldn't see the elf at all unless you were looking at it closely. I might go back to that. Kinda liked the surprise. Problem is, (even now) it has no form as a thumbnail. Most ppl would likely never even look at it. /sigh

    Comments, questions and suggestions much appreciated.

    Cave, clothes, and Ghoul morphs created in zbrush. Vines and plants created in blender. Elf hair created in Blender and zbrush. Texture maps and bump maps created using a combination of Gimp, Artrage, and Inkscape. Pure iRay render (no postwork). Two "distant lights" to create the god-rays in the background, a point-light to help light the vine's leaves, a dim orange point-light to light the chubby elf, and a dim blue point-light to light the ghouls.

    GhoulCave08.jpg
    1200 x 1800 - 448K
    Post edited by Donavon-2403837 on
  • social_stigmasocial_stigma Posts: 107
    Defenistrat said:
    tubbyfalls1 said:
    Defenistrat said:
    tubbyfalls1 said:

    A couple ideas i had:

    I think these are both really good ideas. I usually like sci-fi, but I think your top image has WAY better composition and frankly more character and emotion.

    What I feel like both of these images are really missing though is the atmosphere. Since the contest is on atmosphere, you would need to find a way to make the atmosphere almost like a character in the scene. I think the second image has more potential for that... but still really think your first image is the better one over all. But it seems like it would be harder to make the atmosphere more a part of the image. Maybe if instead of a wall behind her there was some sky? Maybe a city scape?

    Thanks for the feedback. I added some rain and fog to image 1 -- always was part of the plan, but wanted to get feedback on the composition, lighting first.

    I'll see what I can do to punch up the other, which admittedly was a spur of the moment idea and thrown together hastily.

    Yes! The rain is perfect!

    How did you add the rain?

    The problem with asking someone to look at an image is that it's easy for someone to nitpick an image and find "improvements". I think that's hard for the artist, because they are already doing that to themselves. That said, when I looked at this second version of the image, I thought it looked like it was nearly done. Then after looking at it again, I did notice that her face is a little dark. I think the image is pretty good as it is, but I wonder if a secondary light from her left (our right) might help light her up without lighting up the whole image.

    Sometimes, I feel like New User Contestants should be required to read the Hairy Arm Technique (go on, Google it), so that they don't have to hear about how they could make improvements to their already great renders.

    The rain is a rigged water setup for a shower - i adjusted the scaling various ways (700% on the vertical!) and tilted it.

    And I actually have a light on that side of her face, but like you said, i'm trying to avoid lighting up the whole image. I can keep tweaking that one.

     

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,548
    Donavon-2403837 said:

    Bath Time Interrupted by Meal Time

    GhoulCave

    Too subtle? Too risque? Hey, they're all naked!  I tried to cover all the naughty bits as best I could without compromising the scene. 

    In an earlier render, you couldn't see the elf at all unless you were looking at it closely. I might go back to that. Kinda liked the surprise. Problem is, (even now) it has no form as a thumbnail. Most ppl would likely never even look at it. /sigh

    Comments, questions and suggestions much appreciated.

    Cave, clothes, and Ghoul morphs created in zbrush. Vines and plants created in blender. Elf hair created in Blender and zbrush. Texture maps and bump maps created using a combination of Gimp, Artrage, and Inkscape. Pure iRay render (no postwork). Two "distant lights" to create the god-rays in the background, a point-light to help light the vine's leaves, a dim orange point-light to light the chubby elf, and a dim blue point-light to light the ghouls.

    This is very cool.  I do think you need to find a way to make all of the creature's stand out just a tiny bit more. They blend with the background just a little bit too much.  I'm not sure how you want to go about that, maybe make their skin a tad lighter? A rim light maybe or maybe just up the lights you have on them just a little.  You won't need much, just enough to bring them out a tad more.

  • Donavon-2403837Donavon-2403837 Posts: 4

    Thank you Ice Dragon Art (Your Planet Fall is on my [very short] favorites list!). I added six lights and I'm liking it even more. The extra light made the haze over the water visible! You can almost tell the water is supposed to be warm! I spread the clothes out a bit more and added a point and spotlight there too. You can see the shoes now!

    I was afraid too much light would make it feel less cave-like. Hard to argue when you can't even see the subject, though.

    GhoulCave09.jpg
    800 x 1200 - 711K
  • Shinji Ikari 9thShinji Ikari 9th Posts: 1,182

     

    here's versions g and h of this one..(g is on the left, and h is on the right.)

    oct2016-2g.png
    500 x 650 - 554K
    oct2016-2h.png
    500 x 650 - 544K
  • ewcarmanewcarman Posts: 180
    edited October 2016
    ewcarman said:

    I swapped in the Free-Spirit-Hair, which I've found so many uses for. Great Morphs. I think this looks a lot better (a few small tweaks as well).

    Defenistrat said:
    ewcarman said:

    I swapped in the Free-Spirit-Hair, which I've found so many uses for. Great Morphs. I think this looks a lot better (a few small tweaks as well).

    I think your pose, your lighting, the concept is all very beautiful. However, I think it could be more powerful. Not to say that it is not a powerful image, but a couple of things that might help make an impact.

    1. Her pose is beautiful, but the strongest focal point in the image is probably her arm, which is well lit and right in the middle of the top left focal point. While her pose is beautiful, I feel like it takes a while to take it in. It might be worth adjusting the camera or her position so that her torso is more the focal point. Frankly, I think you might have a challenge in putting her face or body in a focal point, without boxing her into the edge of the image. I don't know, I could be wrong here. Maybe somebody else should weigh in on that one.

    2. I don't think this is a pose that a character could be in for very long. Therefor, I feel that she is caught in motion. Her hair is in a really static position, like she has been standing like this for a while, but her body is off balance. I think her hair needs more motion.

    3. Lastly, her hair and parts of ther backside blend too well into the dark background, making it hard to see them. I only have a few tools in my 3D toolbox right now, so I probably say this too much, but I think she needs something to light up her back, whether that is just a subtle ambient light, or a powerful contrasting rim light, I don't know.

    Anyway, a list of three things... that feels like too much for an image that already looks this good. But they are just suggestions. However, how do you do those fireflies in your godrays? And are you using 3Delight or Iray? I have seen these on Iray images, and I have not been able to figure out how they are done, so I have actually been cheating and adding them in post work in GIMP, which feels a little dirty...

    @Defenistrat Thank you for your feedback! Good points all.I see what you mean by the hair. Honestly, I was so happy to get it to hang down that way, I didn't give it another thought. I'll have to see about adding some motion to it. There are a number of parts to this hair that I might be able to take bits and pieces and create an interesting effect. I really like this hair too, Once you tilt the head forwards or back, so many hairs have trouble morphing to show a little (or lot in this case) gravity.

    About the rim lights.... I've gone back and forth with adding them to this image. It is obviously lit from the source-on-high, so I'm not sure about adding other sources. I've actually got about 5 other lights in the scene - all turned off at the moment - that I've experimented with. But since this was something you noticed right away and I've been struggling to decide whether or not to do it, I suppose I should take another look.I suspect you are right and if I can get just a little highlight on her, it might really get her to pop. 

    For focal points, I agree that this is a difficult pose to put into hot-spots. I played with the camera at different angles - angled towards the front, back, etc. and finally settled on this. I guess it's more portrait? Good advice though and definitely worth a few more experiments.

    As for the fireflies in the light beams, I picked up Epic Godrays in the sales this last month and used that. I'm very happy with how easy it is to use and the effect it has on the image. I've done these before, using Sickleyield's tutorials, and they just didn't turn out this nice or easy. And this is an Iray image.

    Oh, and it's not cheating to use GIMP for a little post. smiley

     

    @Defenistrat - This is the final version and I think it turned out great. Adding a fill light has added some subtle highlights "behind" her and gets her to pop from the background a little better without spoiling the overall lighting effect. I also added a little bit of movement to her hair so it looked more like it was still falling into place. I tried different camera angles, but came back to the original. At any rate, thank you for the great suggestions and observations. I'm very happy with this one.

     

    Ling Dance.jpg
    1875 x 1500 - 266K
    Post edited by ewcarman on
  • kanegskanegs Posts: 80
    Defenistrat said:
    kanegs said:
    kanegs said:
    Defenistrat said:
    kanegs said:
    Ice Dragon Art said:
    kanegs said:

    Here's idea #2:

    That's pretty creepy (in a good way).  Do the doors open at all?  Right now his arm (my right) looks a bit like its floating because of the way the door cuts it up.  Maybe you could open it a bit more, or maybe have him grasping the door with his fingers curled around the edge to pull it open? 

    I made some posing changes, I'm not quit happy with my changes. I don't have a lot of room to work with. I need the window light behind him, and the doors in front of him.

    I also altered the lighting / godrays to speed up the rendering (last image took 40+ hours, this one a little over 2).

    So I didn't see the first render until I quoted the second image. That said, with this second darker image, when I saw it I felt this horrible sense of uneasyness, as something that I couldn't see very well looked like it was coming towards me...

    Then I went to comment on how your figure needs to be lighted more, and I saw your original image. In addition to feeling not just a sense of horror, but also a little disgust at his... almost shiney skin and slightly amorphous shape, I also thought "Why did they change from THAT?!"

    Meaning, I like your original one significantly better (personally). I just read what advice Sonja would have given you to put your scary creature in the dark (cause Sonja's really good, and was struggling to figure out why she would tell you to do that >_<), and I think she was more suggesting that the creature stay where it was, but maybe adjust the hand. It's not that it looks bad where it is, it's just that a little action, like the creature reaching out, or opening the door, or maybe hand on the glass, could really enhance it.

    I'm hesitent to add this, because I love where your creature is positioned in the image (still talking about your first render), but it might also be worth zooming in a little more. If you do so, you would want to make sure that it doesn't become too easy to make out the creature's features.

    Anyway, love it! Can't wait to see where this goes!

    Thanks for the suggestions. This next image was already rendering before I saw your comments. I added a mesh light to fill in a little bit.

    So I decided to take a step back... I went back to the original pose and just changed the arm and hand, then I moved the camera closer.

    Yep, I think this is what Sonja was recommending. This looks great.

    I think it looks a lot better without the overhead lights. I found them really distracting, esspecially with the glow. I kind of like the glow in the image overall, but that really intense glow in the bottom part of the crack in the door is a little distracting.

    But I am liking this rendition the best!

    Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I made a few more changes:

    • I toned down the bloom effect.
    • I increase the surface bump intensity.
    • I metalized the door handles.
    • I also made some changes to his hand/finger pose on the door--it's a little more subtle and I'm not sure it's an improvement.
    • Finally, since we can just start to make out his face, I opened his mouth.

    atmos-demon-1b.jpg
    1920 x 1080 - 1M
  • RobotHeadArtRobotHeadArt Posts: 917
    edited October 2016

    Here is my first draft for this month.  The snow is RawArt's Iray EnviroCam.

    atmo1.jpg
    1280 x 720 - 761K
    Post edited by RobotHeadArt on
  • berriboyberriboy Posts: 172

    I haven't been around for a long time and would like to add this render to this months competition.

    There are a lot of really nice atmospheric renders but I think we need more godrays.

    SkelMarch.png
    1529 x 860 - 3M
  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,548
    edited October 2016

    Not sure if this will work for this contest.  Its pretty far off what I started with...

    Elemental 2 wip 2.jpg
    927 x 1500 - 1M
    Post edited by IceDragonArt on
  • TotteTotte Posts: 13,955
    RobotHeadArt said:

    Here is my first draft for this month.  The snow is RawArt's Iray EnviroCam.

    I like this idea, a lonely person on a snowy mountain.

  • social_stigmasocial_stigma Posts: 107
    RobotHeadArt said:

    Here is my first draft for this month.  The snow is RawArt's Iray EnviroCam.

    The only problem I see with this is the character seems to be casually strolling up the snowy mountain. I would have him bundlesd up and having a bit more of a challenge in the climb (ankle deep or knee deep in snow).

  • FastKattFastKatt Posts: 23
    edited October 2016

    So many ideas, but so little time. Here's my first - not sure I'll have time for any of the others. sad

     

     

    Fairy Playground.jpg
    1920 x 1080 - 2M
    Post edited by Chohole on
  • TabascoJackTabascoJack Posts: 865
    edited October 2016

    Here's a first cut.

    The first is a more traditional scene - the second I went a little "spookier"....

     

     

    Shipwreck2.jpg
    800 x 450 - 83K
    Shipwreck.jpg
    800 x 450 - 10K
    Post edited by TabascoJack on
  • TabascoJackTabascoJack Posts: 865

     

    FastKatt said:

    So many ideas, but so little time. Here's my first - not sure I'll have time for any of the others. sad

     

     

     

    That's really nice.

     

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,548

     

    TabascoJack said:

    Here's a first cut.

    The first is a more traditional scene - the second I went a little "spookier"....

     

     

    I like them both. The spookier one tells a better story though I think

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,548
    tubbyfalls1 said:
    RobotHeadArt said:

    Here is my first draft for this month.  The snow is RawArt's Iray EnviroCam.

    The only problem I see with this is the character seems to be casually strolling up the snowy mountain. I would have him bundlesd up and having a bit more of a challenge in the climb (ankle deep or knee deep in snow).

    Having him leaning forward will also help give the look of someone who is working hard to climb the mountain.

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,548
    FastKatt said:

    So many ideas, but so little time. Here's my first - not sure I'll have time for any of the others. sad

     

     

    Nice job on the god rays!

  • berriboyberriboy Posts: 172
    FastKatt said:

    So many ideas, but so little time. Here's my first - not sure I'll have time for any of the others. sad

    Really beautiful scene.

  • dawnbladedawnblade Posts: 1,723

    In this version, I used more of Ron's brushes to add flames and turn them into flaming tornadoes in the left and right braziers, bokeh to the entrance on the right (viewer's left), and lightning.

    ContestOct2016B.jpg
    1214 x 858 - 676K
  • Kismet2012Kismet2012 Posts: 4,252
    berriboy said:

    I haven't been around for a long time and would like to add this render to this months competition.

    There are a lot of really nice atmospheric renders but I think we need more godrays.

    This is a great image.  A really nice start.  I love the god rays and all your skeleton warriors.

     

    I would suggest trying to vary their poses.  The skeletons carrying torches all seem to have the exact same pose.  You have more variety in the head positions of the skeletons carrying the staffs ( I especially like the one looking out the window as he walks by ), but their strides are all the same.  If they are marching in some kind of formation this is to be expected but they appear to be a bit more disorderly to me. 

     

    I realize it is a challenge to have so many figures in one image to start with but some subtle adjustments can make a huge difference.  Adjusting the angle of heads, slight differences in stride, etc.

     

    A great start. 

  • Kismet2012Kismet2012 Posts: 4,252
    Shinji Ikari 9th said:

     

    here's versions g and h of this one..(g is on the left, and h is on the right.)

    Very subtle differences between the two but I like the slightly brighter version ( which is g on the left I believe ).

     

  • Kismet2012Kismet2012 Posts: 4,252
    Ice Dragon Art said:

    Not sure if this will work for this contest.  Its pretty far off what I started with...

    This image reminds me of a comic book cover. 

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,548
    Kismet2012 said:
    Ice Dragon Art said:

    Not sure if this will work for this contest.  Its pretty far off what I started with...

    This image reminds me of a comic book cover. 

    Thank you!  I'm hoping that's a compliment lol.  Does it meet the challenge of atmosphere though?  I am contemplating another just in case

  • ewcarmanewcarman Posts: 180
    TabascoJack said:

    Here's a first cut.

    The first is a more traditional scene - the second I went a little "spookier"....

     

     

    Very nice. I really like the first image. But the light shining through the night/mist in the second is very cool too.

  • Kismet2012Kismet2012 Posts: 4,252
    Ice Dragon Art said:
    Kismet2012 said:
    Ice Dragon Art said:

    Not sure if this will work for this contest.  Its pretty far off what I started with...

    This image reminds me of a comic book cover. 

    Thank you!  I'm hoping that's a compliment lol.  Does it meet the challenge of atmosphere though?  I am contemplating another just in case

    Yes...that is a compliment.  Didn't mean to be obtuse about it.

     

    Also, yes.  It does qualify for the contest.

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