soft-body dynamics in dazstudio?

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  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    3DSmacks didn't even have anything but rudimentary character animation abilities till someone came out with Character Studio... wasn't that third party? Third party pluggins are a staple in the world of 3D Software. My bet is that eventually DS might rival some of the big boys in functionality due to pluggins...

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited December 2012

    wancow said:
    3DSmacks didn't even have anything but rudimentary character animation abilities till someone came out with Character Studio... wasn't that third party? Third party pluggins are a staple in the world of 3D Software. My bet is that eventually DS might rival some of the big boys in functionality due to pluggins...

    Well, for the time being even the plugins that make Studio stronger are character centric or for different rendering solutions. So I think plugins make Daz Studio stronger but I couldn't imagine Studio truly rivaling "big boys" ever. Character Studio used to be a plugin for Max, but since then a ton of new functions and features have been added to "3DSmacks". So it's not like the big dogs rest on their laurels.

    Besides you can't even model in Daz Studio ;) (nor would I want to, I'd prefer Max 3 over something in Daz Studio) But I think the hair plugins will be nice addition to making great characters on a low budget and also still moving quickly.

    edited typos and stuff cause I've never been an English major.

    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    Besides you can't even model in Daz Studio

    Oh yes you can :) It's not easy, but it can be done! Do I need to prove it?

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 2012

    Not simply just "not finished", Mattymanx, but they also went dead silent on the whole thing.
    I suspected then that DAZ had bought them out - I think DAZ is sitting on it - maybe for the supposed animation-friendly DAZStudio 5????

    You mean that Animation Friendly means Physics and Soft Body Dynamics? That would be... sweet!
    Post edited by wancow on
  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited December 2012

    wancow said:
    Besides you can't even model in Daz Studio

    Oh yes you can :) It's not easy, but it can be done! Do I need to prove it?

    No you can not by any standard. Gluing primitives together doesn't count! I believe people do amazing things with what tools they are given, but I still won't call that modelling (in the standard sense, not trying to offend). I've seen people make rooms with primitives in just about any software that allows for cubes, spheres, pyramids and torus. But you do know what I am talking about %-P

    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    HAH! You have challenged me!!! Hahahaahahahaa... PREPARE TO EAT CROW!

  • Mr Gneiss GuyMr Gneiss Guy Posts: 462
    edited December 1969

    wancow said:
    Besides you can't even model in Daz Studio

    Oh yes you can :) It's not easy, but it can be done! Do I need to prove it?

    No you can not by any standard. Gluing primitives together doesn't count! I believe people do amazing things with what tools they are given, but I still won't call that modelling (in the standard sense, not trying to offend). I've seen people make rooms with primitives in just about any software that allows for cubes, spheres, pyramids and torus. But you do know what I am talking about %-P

    You could model with D-Formers... why anyone would want to would be another question... that way lies madness! :ahhh:

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited December 1969

    yeah I've seen modelling with d-formers. and I was surprised to see a tutorial on how to build a character that way. I've used deformers to fix clothes and even to help shape a figure but not to model something from scratch. Goes back to my point that daz is good part of pipeline but if you are using deformers to make characters there are faster apps for that, that are free.

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    I made a chair in DAZ Studio usind the DForm and spawning morphs... granted it's not great, but it is modelling :) So: Yes, you can model in DS.

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  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    yeah I've seen modelling with d-formers. and I was surprised to see a tutorial on how to build a character that way. I've used deformers to fix clothes and even to help shape a figure but not to model something from scratch. Goes back to my point that daz is good part of pipeline but if you are using deformers to make characters there are faster apps for that, that are free.

    I didn't say it was the best option... but then, DS isn't designed to do that in the first place. That's not what it's for any more than a render engine is designed to work with Joint Parameters. And yes, you could actually create a figure from scratch in DS. It would be a matter of box modelling using DForm, subdividing, exporting to OBJ, then re-importing the mesh and deforming it more. It's a matter of perseverance. If there was nothing else available, it could be done.

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited December 2012

    wancow said:
    I made a chair in DAZ Studio usind the DForm and spawning morphs... granted it's not great, but it is modelling :) So: Yes, you can model in DS.

    I'm still going to say no, no, and no. Cause while I like to kid and all I wouldn't ever tell anyone they could model in Daz Studio. Anyone who actually likes to model would cry if they were forced to go through all that. Daz wasn't designed to be a modelling package, so I wouldn't say otherwise.

    I know people like to tinker, look at some bryce users. They make some crazy engineering designs in a package designed for landscapes. i still wouldn't be caught on record saying you can build an engine in Bryce, just because someone did it.

    Humans do a lot of silly things just to say we can do it. But ya know in an online forum people only read half of what you say. Would hate to confuse a newb into thinking you really could model in DS ;) I would cry for them.

    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
  • creativemodelsbecreativemodelsbe Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Why would you model in studio? Zbrush and hex or silo works fine.

    it is not necessary, it would be as bad as model in carrara.

    only tools for more real looks and animatable characters is just fine.

    in ds3 there was a demo softbody project by discoboy (likely to be a daz developer). you can find this on the old forum.
    now we have to hair plugins (still not dynamic yet)
    a fast render engine (octane almost ready)

  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,504
    edited December 1969

    wancow said:
    I made a chair in DAZ Studio usind the DForm and spawning morphs... granted it's not great, but it is modelling :) So: Yes, you can model in DS.
    Looks pretty messy around the edges, so it would be hard to use that model for much other than as a static prop. I'll be the first to admit I have no idea how to use the DForm tools in Daz Studio, at least effectively. If I want to model something I usually use 3D Studio (I've only got version 9 though as I haven't upgraded in a while) since it's what I learned to use at University and it has all the necessary tools to manipulate figures on the vertex level.

    As far as Daz's built in collisions go though, the only bugbear I have to date is that you can only specify a single collision object for anything other than dynamic clothing. So if, for example, someone were sat on another's lap you couldn't both collide with the sitting character and the chair simultaneously, and switching between one or the other removes any previous deformations applied by earlier collisions.

    Or... maybe I just haven't figured out how yet. Either way, it's still a minor frustration I've encountered.

  • creativemodelsbecreativemodelsbe Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    wancow said:
    I made a chair in DAZ Studio usind the DForm and spawning morphs... granted it's not great, but it is modelling :) So: Yes, you can model in DS.
    Looks pretty messy around the edges, so it would be hard to use that model for much other than as a static prop. I'll be the first to admit I have no idea how to use the DForm tools in Daz Studio, at least effectively. If I want to model something I usually use 3D Studio (I've only got version 9 though as I haven't upgraded in a while) since it's what I learned to use at University and it has all the necessary tools to manipulate figures on the vertex level.

    As far as Daz's built in collisions go though, the only bugbear I have to date is that you can only specify a single collision object for anything other than dynamic clothing. So if, for example, someone were sat on another's lap you couldn't both collide with the sitting character and the chair simultaneously, and switching between one or the other removes any previous deformations applied by earlier collisions.

    Or... maybe I just haven't figured out how yet. Either way, it's still a minor frustration I've encountered.

    collisions don't work right.
    genesis hands move inside the mesh.
    and with animations, well :lol:
    frustration all-around

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited December 2012

    collisions don't work right.
    genesis hands move inside the mesh.
    and with animations, well :lol:
    frustration all-around

    Frankly that is a part of animating in general. You can handle clipping by adjusting the animation accordingly. You can use much more expensive software and see that by default objects are allowed to share the same space. Using more complex calculations to determine this stuff isn't always needed and can actually limit you creatively.

    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 6,900
    edited December 1969

    The built in collision for DS45 is intended for layering clothes, not full blown soft body collision. And yes, it could use improvement but nothing is perfect

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited December 2012

    Mattymanx said:
    The built in collision for DS45 is intended for layering clothes, not full blown soft body collision. And yes, it could use improvement but nothing is perfect

    Combined with the push modifier I've had a lot of good results with clothes in DS4.5, a great improvement over what we had (or didnt have) in the past.

    I tend to set the push modifier to .01, instead of the default 1. The default 1cm makes things look terrible, and at .01 it tends to fix minor pokethrough without being obviously expanded out.

    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    Mattymanx said:
    The built in collision for DS45 is intended for layering clothes, not full blown soft body collision. And yes, it could use improvement but nothing is perfect

    Combined with the push modifier I've had a lot of good results with clothes in DS4.5, a great improvement over what we had (or didnt have) in the past.

    I tend to set the push modifier to .01, instead of the default 1. The default 1cm makes things look terrible, and at .01 it tends to fix minor pokethrough without being obviously expanded out.

    1/10 th of a mm is about right...unless there's a fair amount of displacement...then you may want to go just a bit higher than the max displacement value.

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