New zips are great, but . . .
LmWolfSpirit
Posts: 239
I love that DAZ is switching to zips. However, there are a few problems that need to be addressed before they completely piss everyone off.
One of the main issues I have is that many of the zips are creating a Content folder. As this is the same name of the folders for most DAZ Studio items, this is already causing confusion and will only get worse. There should only be a Runtime folder and a Readme folder. If they feel it is necessary to include the runtime and readme in a new folder, at least name it something that isn't the same as other common folders (e.g., Your New DAZ Product--just kidding, but there could be something a lot better than what it is now).
In addition, DAZ really needs to look at being consistent in the naming of files. First by making the file names in the Download page match the name of the downloaded file, including numbering. As there is currently no way on the page to see which files have already been downloaded (e.g., the highlighting that used to show that a file had been downloaded), then it would greatly help if numbering was the same as in Such and Such Pt 1 should not be showing up as Such and Such 4.
Hopefully, as DAZ gets things switched to zips, they will find the time to return readmes to all downloads.
And what's up with those Manifest.dsx files?
I am very happy that the switch is being made, but the whole point to zips is to make things easier, not just to change from one annoying delivery method to another.
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Comments
The .dsx files are for the Install manager - as, judging by the reply to the bug report on the Content folder, is the Content folder.
Ummm...I am confused...what Install Manager? Are you saying that somehow the Folder named Content is considered an Install Manager? Of all the wacky things I have ever heard of...!!
Forgot one. Why are Weblinks being included in the zips? These and the .dsx are just two things for me to trash before moving the runtime from the needless Content folder.
No, THere is to be an install manager to go with the zip files. It will be an optional item, you can use it or not, as you choose. Once it is released, then all DAZ 3D store items will be converted to zip files.
Ah, okay...kinda. Sounds like the way CP used to (don't know if they still do) automatically install products into the Download section of Poser. When I first started with Poser, I used that for about 5 minutes before I realized that it would not install things the way I wanted them.
I doubt if even the newest computer user will have much need for a zip installer.
The manager is supposed to have more features than just installing zip files...but that's neither here nor there.
And in DS 3 Content was the valid 'top' of the heap...in DS4 it's My Library. And in DS, the Runtime folder is just another content folder out of many legit folders. This is DAZ and they are going to package the content for DAZ|Studio, primarily...so using Content/My Library is the proper way to do it.
I wasn't clear. I am talking about Poser products, not DS products, that are being put into a folder called Content.
Well, I just had to unzip one of the most recent updated files of a product I had purchased a while ago, and when I unzipped it to my desktop, it did unzip to a Content folder, with two folders inside, namely Runtime and Readme.
This is definitely something new, because I used to install to my desktop with the old Bitrock installers, and the main folder was always the Runtime folder, or there would be two folders, one Runtime and one Readme, depending on whether it was a DAZ product or a PA product.
I'm not sure why the new zips are set up that way, but it's more than likely because that's they way the new Install Manager is going to work. After many years of installing to Bryce, Poser and DS versions 2, 3 and now 4 with the main folder always being Runtime, I'm obviously going to have to ignore the Content folder and open the Runtime and Readme folders within it to install.
Then again, I'm used to manually installing, so that won't be a problem. For those who are used to unzipping/installing directly to the Runtime folder, they're going to have to get used to the change. Of course, if the Install Manager is used to install the products, then it obviously won't matter much, and DAZ is constructing the new zips on the premise that folks will be using it.
Personally, I hate the zips. If I download an older product that has already been zipped I groan with displeasure. I'm looking forward to the download system and hope that it won't be a super long wait to get it. As far as Poser files. Do you mean products that can only be used in poser like dynamic clothes set up for it or dynamic hair? If so those really don't need to be set up for Studio users but other wise they do need a top level file above runtime to be installed where the new users would expect them to go (as in directly into studio). I'm surprised it is content though rather than my library. Though on older products content is the default.
DS uses the Poser style Runtime folders as well only it is nested inside the Content folder ,and since DS uses Poser products too they set the zips up to take that into consideration ,cause some of the things will have DS files in the Content folder .
If they're all in Content folders, the user can follow exactly the same process regardless of whether the product was designed for Poser or DS. If they aren't, things get more complicated.
*note: this is from the perspective of a DS user who has never even touched Poser.
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Me too.
I never really liked the idea of zips. Hate when I have to get them from Rendo, RDNA, etc. On my computer zips have to be loaded manually.
For me the BitRock installer was perfect.
When people first started talkling about zips years ago, I defended the BitRock until some people said they couldn't use the BitRock installer.
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It's very inconvenient for me to use zips, but I guess now we can ALL use the software.
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That gives me some consolation
NO! NO!! and NO!!! DS has never needed a 'Content' folder or a 'My Library' folder. As long as you point DS to the folder containing your 3D files it can be named just about anything. To add a 'Content' or 'My Library' folder to a zip is just wrong and if DAZ's smart zip utility needs a 'Content' folder to work it isn't very smart.
Yes, yes...but for the sake of convenience and uniformity, even the Bitrock installers use the Content/My Library as the 'top'. It is a way of providing some semblance of uniformity.
Next time I pack up something to put up on ShareCG, I'll just skip the whole My Library bit...just pack them how ever they fall...I wonder how long it would take for my inbox to be filled with complaints?
I have had to package products in zips for sites for years. If you knew how many times people screwed up installing them it would curl your hair. And not just new people. All to often "experts" who were just sure they could stick something some place it wouldn't work.
Yes, yes...but for the sake of convenience and uniformity, even the Bitrock installers use the Content/My Library as the 'top'. It is a way of providing some semblance of uniformity.
Next time I pack up something to put up on ShareCG, I'll just skip the whole My Library bit...just pack them how ever they fall...I wonder how long it would take for my inbox to be filled with complaints?
Problem is that's okay as long as you use the My library or content setup. I label my runtime DS4 content and that's what I point things at. The number of times I have to manually shift things is annoying. If people are pointing it at their content folder it shouldn't require a content/ my library folder in the zip setup.
My way of dealing with the Zips from DAZ 3D is to unzip them to a temp folder, and then drag and drop the Runtime folder over to whichever runtime I want to place the product. My Poser runtimes are named things Like Poser V4, Poser M4 etc, so I just drop the runtime into the main Ppser v4 (or whatever) folder and it warns me that I already have a runtime folder, and any do I want to continue, and I then say "Yes".
I have yet to find a zip file from DAZ 3D that has had any pathing issues. The same can not be said of zips from other sources, and those I do check carefully, and frequently have to take the library folders over one at a time, and even rename them (for example) the use of an "r" instead of an "R" will screw things up.
I do exactly the same for DS4 specific content, never used "My Library" as content folder, don't have it in My Documents either. For DS3 I still have a folder named DS3Content and in that is a content folder.
If you use WinRAR the Content folder in the new zips is no problem. Just doubleclick it, so you see the Runtime folder etc. Then click Extract To, select the folder containing the runtime folder (e.g. "Victoria 4" (/Runtime)) and click OK. It will even remember the different runtime folders in a dropdown box so it's very easy.
Without the DAZ Content folder though it would also be possible to batch install using WinRAR - just select a number of zips, select Extract Files from the WinRAR context menu, select the folder containing the runtime from the drop down list, and everything is installed in no time.
EDIT: corrected some of the information
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Me too.
I never really liked the idea of zips. Hate when I have to get them from Rendo, RDNA, etc. On my computer zips have to be loaded manually.
For me the BitRock installer was perfect.
I don't know what computer you are using, but on mine I find the zips much easier to work with than the installers, where you have to click through and select between a lot of options for every single file.
With the zips (if they're packed normally, i.e. without DAZ' Content folder), using WinRAR I can batch install 50 items in no time, with a few clicks. Installing the same content with the installers would probably take an hours manual and frustrating work.
Installers should not crate a Content or My Library folder - and most don't. A few early ones did, and were wrong to do so.
Oh FFS.
What's the point in us telling everyone that when they unpack ZIP/RAR files to point them to their Content/My_Library folder, when DAZ make a total balls up of their own ZIPs, it's bad enough with some of the half-wits in the community packaging them wrong without DAZ ****ing it up to.
We all install into the same primary location, the folder that has the Runtime folder in it, so when a Poser user opens a ZIP/RAR they want to see a Runtime folder, and sometimes a ReadMe's (exact spelling) folder, us DS users want to see the same thing with the addition of a data folder, as well as things like the People folder. Anything else results in one totally ****ed content directory, and a lot of help I can't find anything posts, which usually results in mike & richard posting "post a screen shot of your Content Directory Manager".
Bejay, when I create my own zips, I use a content folder. Everything that goes in the library is in the content folder and anything else like templates, promo images, links to product at website, readmes etc.. are outside the content folder. Which is simply to say, there are always going to be different ways to do things for different reasons. The thing is consistency and not messing things up like improper case in poser runtimes, things like that. I'm also glad to see Daz is starting to put version numbers on the newer files along with updated support pages.
I agree. There is a reason why both Rendo, CP and RDNA all pack their zips that way. Unless the folder that contains your Runtime is actually named "Content", you cannot intstall the DAZ zips directly into your runtime (unless you use WinRAR or some other program that can bypass the Content folder).
Most modern ZIP programs allow you to browse the individual folders as well. I've had a couple of ZIPs which had the "My Library" folder included (which was fine, since I still have one), but I can bypass it if needed and just copy the folders one level up.
I'm not sure its too big a deal one way or the other to be honest. We're way past the stone age of computing, I think it's safe to say most know how ZIP files work by now.
Still, you cannot batch install zips when that Content folder is there, at least not with WinRAR. Don't know if you can with other programs of that kind.
I prefer installers because you can uninstall things easily as well.
With zips you have to trawl through your runtime looking for all the individual folders to delete. Will the upcoming Install Manager do this? Hope so.
Give me the good old fashion zip file. No fuss, no muss, no blindly installing corrupt content. No guessing where anything is because I put it there, no wondering if files are missing because I check it after i unzip it and before I instal it.
Now where are these zips at DAZ? The only zips I see are for mac.
We only need uninstallers to uninstall because everything is all over the folder structure. If textures, data files etc were all in a single folder for a single object, installing/uninstalling would be drag and drop.
I think they're mostly for older items. I found several zips for older things that I got in the BOGO.
I've always liked the zips from RDNA and Rendo but these were a right pain in the backside as everything had to be moved individually from "Content" to the correct home. I'm quite surprised it all worked after that.
Yes at the moment it is only older porducts that are being packed in the zip format for both platforms, this is becuse the newer Mac OS Xs don't get on with some of the installers.
Once the Content downloader and installer they have talked about is released we will know more about it's capabilities, but it is designed to be used with the new zips. It will be an optional, once only download, which you can choose to use, or not use.