Have you seen the new documentation center for ReadMe's?
DanaTA
Posts: 13,190
I just checked. They've now made it even more difficult to find things...unless you have a computer brain and know the SKU numbers for the product you're searching for! Yes, the index page now has a table, 4 columns by 4 rows (presumably this will get larger as time goes by). All that is in the table is SKU numbers:
0000-0999, 1000-1999, 2000-2999, etc.
If you know your SKU, you can go to the right range and find it alphabetically after that. If you don't...they you have to search the store first to find out. Fun!
Come on DAZ3D! SKU numbers are for computers, bar code scanners (even that is a maybe) and cash registers, not humans!
Dana
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Comments
Oh yes - I just saw it ...
There are no Smileys that show what I think.
They probably would be censored ...
I'm surprised you're the only other one who has noticed...or cares. Maybe everyone is busy or sleeping.
Anyway...this is progress, right? That's what they'll tell us anyway. >:-(
Dana
Well - yesterday (my day) it still looked normal.
I don't think many have seen the "new and improved" look.
I wonder if that has something to do with some "Unnamed Persons" which exploit the titles of new/upcoming product titles and post them in the forum as they are very much excited about new releases? :red:
If so, why should we all be punished for their behavior? And why would that matter anyway?
Dana
If so, why should we all be punished for their behavior? And why would that matter anyway?
Dana
Agreed. Speaking as one of the "unnamed" LOL If they didn't want us to find the titles that hint to upcoming products, all they need to do is call it something like "new product" we would have no idea what that product will be. Simple.
Renaming the products by SKU is totally ridiculous. These are read me files that should remain named by the products title not some serial number that means nothing to customers. Sure, add a search feature that allows customers to type the SKU for accurate search results... But making us have to do so is ludicrous. I can remember product titles. I cant remember SKU codes, and I'm sure most customers would agree. :)
I think it is probably Magento being stupid.
Maybe they ran out of characters (like you can have up to 30.000 characters in one message - which I had to fight with my hair freebie list).
Over the last week the Readme secion has changed a number of times...so I will wrongly or rightly assume it isn't finished. I am always looking there when I am trying to help someone with a product issue.
Did you notice the Old ArtZone Wiki > Products A-Z Link on that first readme page. Some links work and some don't which is why I think it isn't finished.
On the "recent changes", the Product Index has a note about it being a temporary change to deal with the large number of pages.
So hopefully they'll change it to something easier. (Like #-C instead of 0000-09999)
I had noticed that, when I went to find product readme's that didn't exist. Instead of tinkering with product name /sku they should spend their time ensuring the readme is available. I bought three products in the past month or so and there are no readme's available. It's not like I installed the items the same day they were released either.
That's simple, just break up your list into more than one post. I've seen a lot of people do that. If you start a topic, just make 3 or 4 posts right away to hold room for future info.
Magento may be crap, but this is a database issue. I've told them on several occasions that using unique ID or SKU numbers is meant for database queries and relational formatting, not for human eyes, especially not for customers. These fields should not be presented to the end users because they are meaningless to the user. This has been an ongoing issue for the ReadMe files. They create a ReadMe with the prefix ReadMe_ then the SKU number. So finding it is an exercise in futility! You can't just scan the files by eye hoping to find it alphabetically, because the product titles are all over the place. I know they're using a database, I just don't know which one. It could be MS SQL Server, or the open source MySQL, or even something else. The point is, they should use the proper data field for presentation to the user, not ID fields. The fact that they had it that way before proves that it is not a fault of Magento, but rather the brainstorm of some "genius". Another mistake is the use of the "zz" prefix. That should have been a suffix, if anything. Maybe that is what forced them to abandon the alphabetical listings. If so, shame. Bad decisions tend to snowball until it's out of control.
Dana
Amen to that! I've recently dealt with one of those...might one of yours be the AirBike? The support person told me he'd bring up the subject at the next meeting with Q&A. Don't know when that is, or if they'll listen.
Dana
Oh, joy. This is why I prefer to get the readme files in the install package.
I need to have documentation that I can show to the auditors on a moment's notice - it's an ISO20000 requirement - and stunts like this make that impossible. That means using products that don't have the readmes available locally puts the ISO20000 certification at risk... and that certification is expensive.
This change hasn't done anything to interfere with that. (Latest: Freak 5 SWOLE)
I agree on the readme issue above to a point. If you think you can remember a product name and type it in exactly you're mistaken. The exact product name is not in the filename, but the sku is.
Because DAZ doesn't let us know if we've already purchased something I use taozen's nice little history manager to look up product names. Is there the word 'the' in front? Does the product spell each word correctly? The best thing to do is a enter a word you know is in the product name and you'll get a list of products in your history that contain that word and that usually is sufficient but not always. If you're hunting for a specific product name in the Wiki you'd better be exact.
SKU's are exact and they're even part of the filename.
Really? The only filenames I've seen SKU's in are readme files, and if I have one of those, I won't be looking on the wiki.
Oh, joy. This is why I prefer to get the readme files in the install package.
I need to have documentation that I can show to the auditors on a moment's notice - it's an ISO20000 requirement - and stunts like this make that impossible. That means using products that don't have the readmes available locally puts the ISO20000 certification at risk... and that certification is expensive.
Amen!
I don't know why they couldn't have left the read me in the install package! Seems like every "improvement" made in the forums & stores in past 7 or 8 months, have just caused issues/hassles for the customers. And that includes the install exe, that requires way too many clicks for my taste... oh well, seems like shouting into the void when we complain, so I don't usually bother, but sometimes I just can't help myself.
If They are using Magento for the forums also...
Donno, to me that doesn't make sense. Keep the shopping carts separate from all of the other junk so one area going down doesn't bring down the whole house of cards. Shopping cart systems are complicated enough without trying to load up the system with a lot of things that have nothing to do with their primary function. Compartmentalization in the form of "loose coupling with high cohesion" should be the watchword for any system moderately complex. Which would suggest a shopping cart that can be fitted to play well with other components 'but doesn't try to do everything itself.'
Ofc, this is unsolicited opinion so I'll shut up now ;p
Really? The only filenames I've seen SKU's in are readme files, and if I have one of those, I won't be looking on the wiki.
Well, yes, the SKU is in the installer filename...if it is new enough. The older products past a certain date don't have the SKU in the filename, they have another meaningless code, the product ID code. Those were at least a little beneficial...the two letter prefix most often indicated the type of product it was, but not always.
an_ for animal, bn_ for bundle, mr_ for morph, tx_ for texture (although sometimes it was a character morph with textures), etc.
Of course, whenever they've recently updated those, they removed that and put the SKU in there instead!
Dana
Well in defense of the SKU, the system isn't actually fully functional, and while regular english will be the method most people will find things, while they are getting things stabilized it would make sense to use the method that the machine can work with easiest, that is the sku as the primary sort. Layering on title search should be easy enough once the system is running properly. Fuzzy search would then go after both SKU and title search in a normal progression.
But they did have alphabetic search by title before this change...and it was fine. And concerning the word "The" (the unfortunate exception), if they use proper title listing:
The Old Watering Hole
would be listed like this:
Old Watering Hole, The
Dana
Unfortunately that listing method introduces it's own complications as not everyone's brain wraps around it well. Any plain english method would be easier for most over SKU however. I don't know why they would have switched unless they are using an automated method to output the listing that using SKU is a quicker output to keep updated at this particular stage. Pushing a human friendly interface to early in a development cycle can make it hard to maintain and update the system because of added complications.
All of this is pure speculation on my part though as to what the team is doing.
Getting it to work, testing it and passing QA, then changing it to work the other way will introduce the possibility of more errors. Also, there will be the tons of new builds and old source code, along with the possibility of bringing back one of the non-working old builds if they have a crash and have to restore from a backup. And we all know that that has already happened and done some major damage not too long ago.
Who knows what they're thinking, though? Who knows what they're ever thinking?
Dana
Actually, it doesn't usually get changed to work another way, the new way (title/fuzzy..) usually gets layered on top of the SKU search method. The older methods stay active as an alternative and fallback.
I do feel your frustration at not being able to find things. It is also frustrating when there was a system in place that worked and then the whole thing seems to take a step backwards.
I happen to be lucky in that I have a spreadsheet with all of the products I've bought along with the SKU's (and other pertinent data) otherwise I would be more frustrated with this. I have had problems looking things up even by title in the store, so I've included links to everything in the spreadsheet also. They are changing addresses to many items so my older links are going dead, but they are getting more straightforward so I can usually figure out what the updated link should be.
Well, yes, the SKU is in the installer filename...if it is new enough. The older products past a certain date don't have the SKU in the filename, they have another meaningless code, the product ID code. Those were at least a little beneficial...the two letter prefix most often indicated the type of product it was, but not always.
an_ for animal, bn_ for bundle, mr_ for morph, tx_ for texture (although sometimes it was a character morph with textures), etc.
Of course, whenever they've recently updated those, they removed that and put the SKU in there instead!
Dana
The earliest I've reset recently was SKU 1614 from 2003. When I look through my item history (via taozen's utility) I actually found a couple files from 2001 and 2002 and even one from 2000. Nothing prior to that. So by now they've probably changed them all (there weren't as many files back then per year).
So I think it's safe to say that 99.999% of file names have the SKU.
And if you keep your files around it's easier to check that than search the store to find it.
Edit to add (because I forgot and need it for clarity) the filename for the product I reset was IM00001614 and it was a zip. It's Witch Hazel for Vicky 3 and the product lists the SKU as.....1614.
Matching file names to product titles is unfortunately a nightmare in itself unless one has a system that cross indexes them.
If so, why should we all be punished for their behavior? And why would that matter anyway?
Dana
hey what the hey???
That's NOT exploitation. I've seen the posts, and ANYONE can go see it, that's the daz site in plain view for everyone to look at. NOT exploitation so let's not throw blame k??
The readme thing is ridiculous. Daz needs to go back to including the readmes with the installers and NOT this stupid site. At the VERY least, the installer should have a LINK to the readme page. I had a new item, the eternal sands, and I could not figure something out... of course has no readme, and I go to the store page hoping THAT would have a readme, or a link to it... NOPE. No readme, no link. Apparently Daz does not care about customers wanting to know the usage for their products anymore... GRRRRRRRRRRRR. I already have written and begged them to include the readmes since they changed it... it's absolutely MADDENING that they don't.
Does Daz WANT customers to break the rules, not know how to use their products, etc???
Just a thought, but until the doc pages are finished I imagine they want us to come here and ask questions. It's been too quiet around here lately anyway, a few questions and conversations may liven things up a bit?
I didn't have to be exact about finding products in the wiki ... I just hit ctrl+f and look for part of the filename.
I am looking for the readme's when I buy things - simultaneously, so I don't have the sku.
I STILL don't know where the readme's are located, no link anywhere. Sigh.