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ProRender as a modern uni-directional path-tracing renderer, which provides unbiased rendering. Cycles is also unbiased. EEVEE is a game like render engine(Uses rasterisation). Its not using raytracing.
Intresting thread, let me share my thoughts. Most of us are focus render characters here at DAZ3D. I would like render photorealistic characters too, but i think it's impossible at this level of detail what currently daz uses. Textures isn't enought hig resolution. I think at least 8K resolution on every body part would be fine. Also a better UV need. The seams visible. We need also use mult level model to simulate skin, muscles and bones. Arm, leg, bending also still horrible, i remember the V4 days, i see the impovements, but i hope the next gen characters will improve further. Characters have too much symmetry. I would like further iray improvements too, better tonemapping, faster rendering etc. but i dont think the render engine is the biggest problem currently. Sure render engines like Octane far ahead in tech but the models, textures matter much more. I attach a render as an example a comparison of digital emily2 and a standard daz3d character.
I would dial down the gloss, but she looks good.
Is the background a photo plate? You positioned the camera well, if so!
Yes it is. Thx :)
It would already be a step in the right direction when the torso textures would be 8k to match the rest of the body. It's the biggest body part that get's stretched the most which is quite visible imo. The torso always looks low quality compared to the rest of the body.
Is 8k the way to go? Here I've bumped all my maps up to 8k and added more details. Thoughts?
You know what, look at the shapes of the heads (Digital Emily vs Daz)...what possibility is there to get that shape into Daz...Or is this even possible?
Since I posted the digital emily file, I learned a few things.
1. the eyes were in the wrong color space. they're supposed to be in linear color space but iray imports png files as sRGB by default. You should change gamma to 2.2 in an image editor. That explaisn why it looked so orangey
2. I think she was meant to be rendered with a type of SSS that DAZ does not have. the translucency in DAZ makes her look a lot darker than was intended. She looks a lot lighter when I render in blender. (notice the SSS makes her bumps look a lot softer too)
Here's the blender file if you guys wanna tinker around with it. I got the HDRI from here.
for those who don't have digital emily textures, you can grab them here
Nicely sharper but a little pixellated on the right side.
I'll definitely check out skin builder now that I've seen this
Any yall try this shader?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKDOoOWjTS0
I bought it, if not to just to learn from it by checking the file and rendering it.
EDIT : So you actually have to replace the default /shaders/iray in the program directoty for a new set provided by this product. I see a lot of values that are different from the ones you see normally. This is a quick render with denoiser and on my 1060-6Gb (I stopped it after 15min). The materials and mesh is suprisingly light at 300Mb each.
And this is a quick test by simply copying all the settings over. Apparently I don't have the right maps to really have the same effect (notice the light on the top of the head)
One of the secret ingredients (aka hack) seems to be to use the emissive node to give the skin some light. There are some interesting material settings that might help. Especially like the bump and specular settings.
I'm finally updating my render based on your suggestions. Its taken some time but I think the results are better for sure.
I added some more clutter (I still think it needs more, the room is too clean).
I used a bend morph package to fix the leg, hopefully.
I learned some more about dforce to deform the bed and crumple the clothes on the floor.
The texture has been desaturated. Hopefully her face looks more appropirate to the rest of the body. I am having a heck of a time getting the transition from the arms to the torso fixed though.
Changed the color of the top to get rid of the bright reflection.
Replaced the underwear. They weren't painted on, but these do look more substantial I think.
I've messed with the expression a bit, but this expression makes it look more like the model I am shooting for. I can't make it look like I want otherwise, so I'll keep playing with that to get it more fine tuned.
Attached is a copy with DOF and one without. I really prefer it with some DOF, but nobody else seems to.
One question I had is how to emulate an iPhone camera in Daz. I've looked at the specs for the camera and matched them to the camera settings, but it doesn't seem to match at all. I feel like that would add a lot of realism to some of these renders, depending on the style. You guys have mentioned matching the style from when you were younger with the lo-fi Polaroid vibe, for me that would be using an iPhone 5 or 6 to take selfies.
Thanks to everyone for the awesomes suggestions. I'm ready for another round of criticism to help improve the render!
If you have some time to devote to learning it the new(ish) strand editor is worth some expirimentation. I bought Garibaldi way back whan so I hit the learning curve a while ago which is nice, but still, I think I've also hit "never buying another short hair again" which is nice (the strand editor definitely can do long hair, but IME short hair is definitely easier to get looking nice) aaaaaand I took so long to respond that I have some longer hair yay. Still not completely perfect, but of things giving away the image id say it ranks pretty low. the eyes on the other hand :(
You can also use it to add strands to a mesh hair which can make hair current mesh hairs look a bit nicer too, basically adding the flyaway hairs that you'll see the more realistic looking mesh hairs
This is the same model after some extensive tweaking. I really like how the waxy look of a typical G8 is gone. Ofcourse the maps now needs some tweaking for the new way it is rendered. Right now she looks like she didn't have a lot of sleep ;-)
Gorgeous hair, jcade!
Wat!? Why? Why would you do that? that sounds like a terribad idea. speaking of pbr vs not pbr...
It may not always be the case, but most of the time orangy skin is caused by your material settings not the textures themselves, one thing I have definitely noticed Cycles vs Iray and dedicated sss shader vs using volumetics is that both are capable of giving very similar results, but the latter is much more finicky and Iray really likes turning things orange unless you beat it into submission (i have some theorys on this)
Funnily enough, even at the render size you posted and definitely any smaller the difference between 4k and 8k seems pretty marginal, now if we're doing closeups of lips or the like It would probably be more noticable, but in most situations not 5000x5000 closeups of the face its unnecesary (and given that 8k textures take up 4 times more memory in most sutuations likely to actively hurt your ability to actually render things) I also agree with notusweb the bigger difference is the morph shape I'd prefer more realistic* morphs over 8k textures
*realistic isnt quite the word I'm looking for but more a singe word that encompases the concept of realistic and non idealized but that can still be clearly pretty
gah double post
Haha, yeah you describe my reaction perfectly. It is not useful at all in a general setting.
Yea I was referring to the eye veins being orangey, the rest of face is ok since they're in .exr and iray correctly imports exr as linear files.
I think the main difference in the SSS is that in iray, the amount of translucency determines the amount of SSS. While cycles does not require transluency to be turned on at all for SSS.
If you lower the translucency she'll be more pale, but the SSS would be lacking. The only way is to do what DAZ does, use a brightened version of the diffuse map for the translucency map. Then you can crank up the transluency. I tried that here:
But it's not perfect. You can see the brows look a little too bright. you have to manually darken those I think.
FYI the textures aren't actually 8k, her albedo and bump maps are 6000x6000 and the "micro displacement" map is 16k. And if you look at the textures they aren't that sharp.
your point probably still stands.
But just for fun, here is a true 8k model compared with a 4k DAZ model.
Hello Maybe someone can give some good skin adjustments??
Heres what I mean though. Emily rendered in Iray (both the one I tonemapped in blender and the untouched Iray) with completely untweaked textures and 100%SSS and yet not dark at all. This isnt even a great attempt honestly (as mentioned emily makes daz a stuttering mess on my machine) so I did very marginal fiddling beyond clicking a shader preset. the lightness is purely the shader notice how the brows and hair are still completely dark
+ bonus image pure backlit demonstating yes all the sss but no excessive translucency in the thicker parts (it sort of looks like theres some in the neck, but that is actually light bouncing off the figure and indirectly lighting the neck, if I turn off the translucency the neck actually gets more lit)
as for the 8k vs 4k I definitely notice the mesh difference more than the texture difference (also those scans just come with excellent textures) Its hard to judge whether the, say sharpness of that specular (which you can notice) comes from the textures being 8k or just differences in the texturs beyond the 8k, I think the ideal comparison would be the headscan vs itself with the second having its textures downscaled to 4k
Wow that's really good, would you mind sharing the SSS settings?
@davidtriune Remember that to compare iray with cycles you need the same lights and tone mapping.
For example you can use the default daz hdr for lights, be sure to set intensity to 2 in blender the same as in daz studio. While for tone mapping you can use the filmic transform with medium contrast that will match the mid tones fine enough with the default iray tone mapping. But you could have differences in the rim lights due to the filmic transform "flattening" overexposure.
I did some tests on tone mapping but didn't find a good conversion yet.
https://bitbucket.org/Diffeomorphic/import-daz/issues/22/basic-tone-mapping-and-better-lights
@Paintbox That is exactly what I talked about when I said that iray is not to be confused with the uber shader. You can use shader bricks or a different mdl shader for the skin or other materials. So while the uber shader essentially uses a translucency layer over a true volumetric body for skins, another mdl shader may use a different approach.
As for the diffeomorphic plugin it only converts the uber shader right now. May be mdl support will come by Jessub Kim.
https://bitbucket.org/Diffeomorphic/import-daz/issues/7/convert-shader-brick-materials-from-daz
I always compare by exporting daz canvas to blender and tonemapping there. That's what I did for the two gifs above. I am aware that DAZ has 2x intensity. but thanks for the info.
Do you know about the iray dev blog? it might give you helpful information on converting iray to cycles and maybe ask them questions too.
realistic face morphs would be so welcome. Most daz models look so idealised.
Well the DAZ 4K model should be paler than there, while the 8k model, while not looking too pale looks uniformly too even colored - lips too pale and no ruddiness at all on a man at that age with that sort of sun damage? It defies belief.
Is there any way to reduce segment length of the strands below 0.1?
I feel like that would make the SBH wayyyy more realistic. At 0.1 segment length, you can still kind of see the segmentation of the strands.
Or maybe there is a way to apply a kind of smoothing modifier to make the the strands more curvy?
Also, what does the 'Interpolation' feature do in SBH? I couldnt figure out this parameter.
the michael 8 is rendered without any changes to the shaders and then exported to blender for tonemapping.
for the 8k model, I actually changed the colors on the textures because they looked like they had too much baked in shadow (especially the ears)
original:
edited:
though I think I overdid it a bit, you're definitely right lol.
I think this is much better than before. At first it seemed like the room looked much better than the girl, but now the girl looks good too, to me. I agree with the people who think it looks better without the depth of field. Maybe because I just like everything in a picture to be sharp.
One thing I've learned about camera phones is they do a lot of post-processing. So even if you manage to match the settings of the lens itself, the virtual camera might not come out the same as the phone camera because it doesn't take into account what the phone's software does to the pictures.
@devidtriune Thanks for the link yes I am aware but my questions would be more about the uber shader that's a daz thing.
OK, yes. The top looks right. The bottom would have had the lips not gotten so washed out too.