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IRAY Photorealism?

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  • charlescharles Posts: 847
    edited January 2021

    Masterstroke said:



    Straight DAZ Studio IRAY render without using canvases.
    No post work here, except cropping and adding the white frame.

     Very cool! I like it!

    Unforutnantly, I spent all morning working on this skin to realize I applied a texture layer in the wrong order. I will go bash my head against the wall for a bit.

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    Post edited by charles on
  • PaintboxPaintbox Posts: 1,633

    Masterstroke said:



    Straight DAZ Studio IRAY render without using canvases.
    No post work here, except cropping and adding the white frame.

    excellent stuff, i held my hand above the top and then the bottom. The eyes and above the nose is very convincing, but my brain objected when I only saw the bottom area. Hard to pin down what exactly it is.

  • charlescharles Posts: 847
    edited January 2021

    Paintbox said:

    Masterstroke said:



    Straight DAZ Studio IRAY render without using canvases.
    No post work here, except cropping and adding the white frame.

    excellent stuff, i held my hand above the top and then the bottom. The eyes and above the nose is very convincing, but my brain objected when I only saw the bottom area. Hard to pin down what exactly it is.

     Probably the eyes, Daz eyes are usually too big, too close or the bottom too round. But there is so much variaty in the human body and face.

    Artist: 3d-sk | 3D Models | 3D Textures | RenderHub

    I've been using a lot of this guys photos for references and skin cropping. Daz G8 just isn't quite to the level of really mimicing the human body perfectly but it can get pretty damn close for what it is. But then most models are less than $20, so you get what you pay for as they say. So I guess $1000 model is this. female rigged 3d model (turbosquid.com) But even with that the polygon count isn't that outragous. Maybe G9 or G10 will be there.

     

    Example this guy is a real person, but his face is longer then normal, eyes close together, mouth very small.

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    Post edited by charles on
  • NylonGirlNylonGirl Posts: 1,817

    Paintbox said:

    Masterstroke said:



    Straight DAZ Studio IRAY render without using canvases.
    No post work here, except cropping and adding the white frame.

    excellent stuff, i held my hand above the top and then the bottom. The eyes and above the nose is very convincing, but my brain objected when I only saw the bottom area. Hard to pin down what exactly it is.

    Have we reached a point when the CG people have to pass tests real people never would have been subjected to?

  • j cadej cade Posts: 2,310

    Paintbox said:

    Masterstroke said:



    Straight DAZ Studio IRAY render without using canvases.
    No post work here, except cropping and adding the white frame.

    excellent stuff, i held my hand above the top and then the bottom. The eyes and above the nose is very convincing, but my brain objected when I only saw the bottom area. Hard to pin down what exactly it is.

    I would say the shadow on the upper lip seems off. The shadow indicates that it has a stong curve, but physically that area has one smooth layer of muscle so barring a scar or mole it should be a smooth relatively flat surface.

    nice creepy reference

    notice how most spots on the face where you see creases or strong changes in curvature coincide with the edges of muscles - If you're making your own morphs a smattering of anatomy knowledge is good - also feeling your own face like a weirdo -

     

    mind you this secific thing will be pretty unnoticable in most other lighting situations, and over all I really like the morph - It looks relatively round and smooth without lookung undefined - also the eyes look very good

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  • charlescharles Posts: 847
    edited January 2021

    j cade said:

    Paintbox said:

    Masterstroke said:



    Straight DAZ Studio IRAY render without using canvases.
    No post work here, except cropping and adding the white frame.

    excellent stuff, i held my hand above the top and then the bottom. The eyes and above the nose is very convincing, but my brain objected when I only saw the bottom area. Hard to pin down what exactly it is.

    I would say the shadow on the upper lip seems off. The shadow indicates that it has a stong curve, but physically that area has one smooth layer of muscle so barring a scar or mole it should be a smooth relatively flat surface.

    nice creepy reference

    notice how most spots on the face where you see creases or strong changes in curvature coincide with the edges of muscles - If you're making your own morphs a smattering of anatomy knowledge is good - also feeling your own face like a weirdo -

     

    mind you this secific thing will be pretty unnoticable in most other lighting situations, and over all I really like the morph - It looks relatively round and smooth without lookung undefined - also the eyes look very good

    As far as the lip goes I thought it was a minor cleft and intentional.

    Having anatomy charts like that at hand are great for finding those hard to remember morph names.

    Post edited by charles on
  • MasterstrokeMasterstroke Posts: 1,985
    edited January 2021

    I tried hard to get rid of that lip cleft. I morphed it away and somehow in later versions of this character it reapeared. When I finally made it, to remove it, I just missed it.
    So I put it back in. It's just her, it's just something individual about her.
    The skin materials are by ISource Textures: https://www.daz3d.com/chiquita-hd-for-genesis-8-female
    I made some touch ups on the texture maps, but the skin shader values are out of the box.

    About her eyes: Those are not native DAZ eyes. They are seperate eye props and were part of Rayla's Julienne: https://www.daz3d.com/julienne-hd-for-genesis-8-female
     


     

    Post edited by Masterstroke on
  • MasterstrokeMasterstroke Posts: 1,985
    edited January 2021

    But then most models are less than $20, so you get what you pay for as they say. So I guess $1000 model is this. female rigged 3d model (turbosquid.com) But even with that the polygon count isn't that outragous. Maybe G9 or G10 will be there.

    Those female rigged models at TQ are good, without a question, but not worth a 1000$.
    What you see there, is mostley Maya or 3dsmax rigging, shading and rendering. Their modelled geometry is not better, than what you will get here.
    I prefer being here with DAZ models, for they are not only cheaper, but wayyyy more flexible with all their morphs.
    So you're better off here and the grass is not greener anywhere else, and yes I can't wait for, what g9 may bring to us.

    Post edited by Masterstroke on
  • charlescharles Posts: 847
    edited January 2021

    Masterstroke said:

    But then most models are less than $20, so you get what you pay for as they say. So I guess $1000 model is this. female rigged 3d model (turbosquid.com) But even with that the polygon count isn't that outragous. Maybe G9 or G10 will be there.

    Those female rigged models at TQ are good, without a question, but not worth a 1000$.
    What you see there, is mostley Maya or 3dsmax rigging, shading and rendering. Their modelled geometry is not better, than what you will get here.
    I prefer being here with DAZ models, for they are not only cheaper, but wayyyy more flexible with all their morphs.
    So you're better off here and the grass is not greener anywhere else, and yes I can't wait for, what g9 may bring to us.

    Trust me when I say I will NEVER be an Autodesk customer ever again and you are right, the $1000 model is not worth it to me either...but to some I know in other "industries" that have deeper pockets it is. Turbosquid has no benchmarks for what a seller can set the price on their work for. There is like a tree on there for like $300,000.00, just totally dumb. But there is a lot of other great models there from deisngers that aren't aholes. The G8 could have been better IMO if they were not trying to make it backwards compatible with the previous gens.  I really love daz, for all kinds of reasons, one that the main platform is free and the breath of products at a VERY REASONABLE price is amazing. It doesn't mean I still don't hand Daz a truck load of money each year, but at least I have a kick ass library and not just a couple of things to play with. Also the Iray engine is REALLY GOOD and I think there is still a lot more potential to be tapped out of it and I seem to learn something new about what it can do every day. Plus as a game designer mainly Daz has some great tools like better or more detailed rigging system. UV mapping could be better, but hey. Also if there was a true universal PBR shader system that could be shared between platforms that would be something.

    Post edited by charles on
  • charlescharles Posts: 847
    edited January 2021

    We can’t wait. Related: what cool functionality, and capabilities can we look forward to from Daz and Daz Studio?

    So far I’ve mostly been working on expanding Daz 3D’s ever growing animation library, tightening up Daz Bridges, and bringing amazing new characters to Daz. A decent-sized update to our Genesis 8 character may be in the works… I’d tell you more, but it’s too early to get fired for breaching an NDA.

    Just saw someone post this tweet from Daz. 

    Post edited by charles on
  • notiuswebnotiusweb Posts: 110

    j cade said:

     

     

    Holy cow these are fantastic.   May I ask what kind of roughness level you are using with the skin, because I would think there is no specular action going on as shine is not really present, but then maybe it is more shiny, but just the lighting balances it out?   Like if you applied no HDRI and just a single ponit light, would it be no shine, or a lot of shininess on the skin?  

    GREAT!

  • escironsoftwareescironsoftware Posts: 0

    Padone said:

    There's also something very odd with the natural spectral

    I reported that bug last September I think it was. I don't remember the response as most of my bug reports and feature requests are accepted and then get fixed consequently as peripheral changes of their other work and I don't get notified.

    So you do agree it's a bug thank you I was just wondering. I submitted a bug report myself may be this helps them to get it better.

     

    spectral rendering natural is more physically accurate than other methods .. also you should know that there is nothing physically based about point lights or other lights that come with daz studio, and if something was wrong with spectral rendering natural then how come it doesnt effect the brighness of hdri maps?

    Well the iray docs tell exactly the opposite that faithful is more accurate while natural sacrifices some tints to be more "smooth". Then tristimulus to wavelenght conversion is not physically accurate by definition that's why we have different conversion intents. The truth is unless we get spectral data for materials and lights it's all a "best guess". Also I'm not using point lights but sphere lights that have photometric properties so they are intended to be physically correct, though using ies would be better. I agree that point lights are to be avoided. I also agree hdris seem to work fine so the bug is limited to scene lights.

    https://raytracing-docs.nvidia.com/iray/manual/concept/spectral_rendering.html

    Indeed there's something odd with photometric properties in daz studio since I need 15000 lumens in daz studio to make 1 watt in blender that's nonsense, it should be 15 lumens = 1 watt for incandescent bulbs. But that apart they seem to work fine.

     

    edit. Of course until they fix the natural conversion I'd advise to stay with faithful.

    Did they ever fix the natural "bug"?

  • emotionaldreams2emotionaldreams2 Posts: 141

    Masterstroke said:



    Straight DAZ Studio IRAY render without using canvases.
    No post work here, except cropping and adding the white frame.

     

     

     

    well done cool

  • ragamuffin57ragamuffin57 Posts: 132
    edited January 2021

    My attempt After reading through numerous threads and posts took on board what I had read and tweaked yhe skin shaders to death  I think I have come up with a skin shader that gives a good stylised skin shader but I think still off the mark re realistic 

    would love the  members who have posted previously to cast their eye over my poor attempt and give some critique

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    Post edited by ragamuffin57 on
  • charlescharles Posts: 847

    Nragamuffin57 said:

    My attempt After reading through numerous treads and posts took on board what I had read and tweaked  skin shaders to death  I think I have come up with a skin shader that gives a good stylised skin shader but I think still off the mark and would love the  members who have posted previously to cast their eye over my poor attempt and give some critique

    Nice. What did you do for the hair? 

  • MasterstrokeMasterstroke Posts: 1,985
    edited January 2021



    Tiny update: I added a little mole to the bumpy area at her left upper lip.
    like it :-)

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    Post edited by I-am-Cho on
  • charlescharles Posts: 847

    Has anyone posted hard bullet points on all the things needed to fix the g8 for more realistic porportions? I'm leaving on vacation for the week but when I get back I would like to do a full break down, but if anyone has some stuff already worked out or a link(s) that would be great!

  • TugpsxTugpsx Posts: 738

    @Masterstroke very nice, the mole did the cover work.

  • TugpsxTugpsx Posts: 738
    edited January 2021

    Here is a quick test, in my case the vellus on her chin may be a bit long.

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    Post edited by Tugpsx on
  • MasterstrokeMasterstroke Posts: 1,985

    Tugpsx said:

    Here is a quick test, in my case the vellus on her chin may be a bit long.

    Nice :-)
    I wouldn't say it is too long. Someone here gave the very good advise, to just lower the opacity of the vellus hair a little bit.

  • MasterstrokeMasterstroke Posts: 1,985

    charles said:

    Has anyone posted hard bullet points on all the things needed to fix the g8 for more realistic porportions? I'm leaving on vacation for the week but when I get back I would like to do a full break down, but if anyone has some stuff already worked out or a link(s) that would be great!

    One thing to keep in mind about proportions is, that almost all characters' legs are to long. A leg gength of half the character's size, as by the book, is already very long. The average leg lenght is usually much shorter. 

  • TugpsxTugpsx Posts: 738
    edited January 2021

    Thanks for the info. Adjusted the opacity and palyed around with a few more pointers. Still need any assistance.

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  • TugpsxTugpsx Posts: 738

    What's a desired setting for skin shine? I'm not sure but my character looks a bit too moist. 

  • 00qisq0000qisq00 Posts: 13

    Another Nora I did over the weekend. Wanted to make some adjustments to the skin. Cleaned up the maps a bit since I didn't or want them too blemishy. Tried having a go at teeth again, but it became quite obvious I don't know what I'm doing, lol. So I'm using the settings from rarestones recent Kayla release. I thought they looked pretty decent under certain lighting conditions, here they look just okay I think. Dropped the vellus hair because under this lighting it was pretty obvious where the SBH wasn't conforming to the skin, so it was like blotchy peach fuzz, pretty annoying. Still not sure how some of you get it to look so nice if it's just conforming to the base mesh resolution. Any, gave me something to do during downtime at work.

     

    Did this a couple weeks ago, my attempt at Kitty Pryde and Lockheed from the X-Men. I know there's a dragon in the picture so, that kind throws "realism" out the window, but I tried. laugh

     

  • TugpsxTugpsx Posts: 738

    @00qisq00 Those look really nice. The skin texture came out great. looks like I may need some adjustments on mine.  Thanks for sharing. The settings are below.

    iRay Moist in Daz (wet look)
    Surface settings:
    Expand Skin to find the Metallic Flakes section
    Metallic Flakes weight: 0.2
    Metallic Flakes Color: 0.22 0.22 0.22
    Metallic Flakes Color Effect: Scatter only
    Metallic Flakes Roughness: 0.18 Moist skin 0.18-0.25
    Metallic Flakes Size: 0.030
    Metallic Flakes Strength: 0.70 Moist Skin 0.70-0.85
    Metallic Flakes Density: 1
    Metallic Flakes Thin Film: 0
    Metallic Flakes Thin Film IOR: 1.5

     

  • charlescharles Posts: 847
    edited January 2021

    00qisq00 said:

    Another Nora I did over the weekend. Wanted to make some adjustments to the skin. Cleaned up the maps a bit since I didn't or want them too blemishy. Tried having a go at teeth again, but it became quite obvious I don't know what I'm doing, lol. So I'm using the settings from rarestones recent Kayla release. I thought they looked pretty decent under certain lighting conditions, here they look just okay I think. Dropped the vellus hair because under this lighting it was pretty obvious where the SBH wasn't conforming to the skin, so it was like blotchy peach fuzz, pretty annoying. Still not sure how some of you get it to look so nice if it's just conforming to the base mesh resolution. Any, gave me something to do during downtime at work.

     

    Did this a couple weeks ago, my attempt at Kitty Pryde and Lockheed from the X-Men. I know there's a dragon in the picture so, that kind throws "realism" out the window, but I tried. laugh

     

    Really nice!  Could you share your render settings and any HDR?

    What is it your trying to do with the teeth? I'm usualy doing graphic novels of medieval dark fantasy stuff and most of my characters have rotting crooked teeth and bad gums, grungy.

    The eyebrows look really good. The hair has is about as good as it gets in daz from what I can tell (geometry smoothing issues and only because I've been looking at how to fix it myself, nobody else would notice.)

    The sweater is hovering off the shoulder a bit and can easily be fixed with a mesh grabber or scaling the shoulder, unless thats what you want.

    Is the under the eyes bags part of the character, a seperat morph? I made my own morphs (but they aren't HD) I couldn't find a general one that looked like that in insane number of morphs I have.

    Is she missing her right Lacrimal? You can see it in the left eye but not the close eye.

    As far as the face hair you can drill into the specific facial nodes ad tweak them (see attached.) But I would say you are pretty good without it on her.

    Are you using a top coat weight map for the skin texture?

    Nice cotton balls and lint on the fabric by the way on the second image :) I made mine from a a geoshell and custom textures and cutouts applied to UHD Fuzzy Cloth shaders. Curious how you got yours lke that.

    Finally someone who gets proper deformation of the bedding and doesn't have their character looking like their matress and pillows are made out of cement, Great job!

     

     

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  • charlescharles Posts: 847

    Hello https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-8-1

  • 00qisq0000qisq00 Posts: 13

    charles said:

    Really nice!  Could you share your render settings and any HDR?

    I don't think there's anything particularly notable about my render settings. Maybe just that I've got burn highlights and crush blacks at 0, and gamma at 1

    What is it your trying to do with the teeth? I'm usualy doing graphic novels of medieval dark fantasy stuff and most of my characters have rotting crooked teeth and bad gums, grungy.

    I just want more natural looking teeth, not teeth that look like chiclets. The shape used to be an issue, but Teeth Master Control on the store has helped with that a bit. Rarestone's Kayla has a nice HD teeth morph as well. Just a matter of texture/materials now. I just want that ever so slight discoloration near the gums, the worn down enamel at the ends of the teeth. I have a bit of an idea of how to do it, I'm just not applying it properly.

    The eyebrows look really good. The hair has is about as good as it gets in daz from what I can tell (geometry smoothing issues and only because I've been looking at how to fix it myself, nobody else would notice.)

    The brows are from a Bluejaunte character, I think...

    The sweater is hovering off the shoulder a bit and can easily be fixed with a mesh grabber or scaling the shoulder, unless thats what you want.

    Yea, normally I'd be looking out for that sort of thing. Just something I neglected this time around. Wouldn't be so bad if the material actually had the thickness of a sweater. Though I guess if the material has enough stiffness not every area is going to conform. Either way I would have changed it had I noticed.

    Is the under the eyes bags part of the character, a seperat morph? I made my own morphs (but they aren't HD) I couldn't find a general one that looked like that in insane number of morphs I have.

    I believe that's just the "Eyelids Lower Crease HD" that's default on G8 or one of the early G8 morph packs. Not sure, it's been there as long as I remember and has the red label like all the other default morphs.

    Is she missing her right Lacrimal? You can see it in the left eye but not the close eye.

    This, I have no clue honestly. Never had an issue of one missing lacrimal before, I use the subtle asymmetry morphs, but I don't think there's anything in there that adjust the lacrimal. Something to figure out the next time I load her up.

    As far as the face hair you can drill into the specific facial nodes ad tweak them (see attached.) But I would say you are pretty good without it on her.

    As far as I know, SBH doesn't allow you to make adjustments on a perbone basis, seems to work more like a geoshell does. 

    Are you using a top coat weight map for the skin texture?

    Yes, dual lobe and top coat

    Nice cotton balls and lint on the fabric by the way on the second image :) I made mine from a a geoshell and custom textures and cutouts applied to UHD Fuzzy Cloth shaders. Curious how you got yours lke that.

    Yes, something I tried after seeing Visuimag comments about it. All I did was make an opacity map, copied the blankets texture to the geoshell and applied the opacity map, darkened the diffure a bit, increase the glossy roughness I think. Anyway, just a super barebones way of getting the look. I'm sure there's a much nicer way of a achieving it.

    Finally someone who gets proper deformation of the bedding and doesn't have their character looking like their matress and pillows are made out of cement, Great job!

    Yea I think dforce can be a bit daunting, but once you kind of get it the hardest part is just trying to figure out the workflow. I suppose if you don't have an nvidia card it can be tedious.

     

  • emoryahlbergemoryahlberg Posts: 133
    edited January 2021

     

    I "cheated" on the hair a bit (used photo elements), but I really like how she came out. 

    Post edited by emoryahlberg on
  • PaintboxPaintbox Posts: 1,633

    Masterstroke said:



    Tiny update: I added a little mole to the bumpy area at her left upper lip.
    like it :-)

    Looks like you fixed the problem I spotted earlier, absolutely stunning work Master!

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