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I am done with Hexagon - any alternatives?

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  • GhostmanGhostman Posts: 215
    edited December 1969

    It is very important to DELETE from the scene all parts not to be included in a particular .obj export. Moving them off the grid is NOT an acceptable solution.

    No need to delete. Just hide everything you don't want to export and you're fine.

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited December 2013

    Ghostman said:

    It is very important to DELETE from the scene all parts not to be included in a particular .obj export. Moving them off the grid is NOT an acceptable solution.

    No need to delete. Just hide everything you don't want to export and you're fine.

    Maybe ... had a little surprize once when I did that. Found that while it didn't show on import into other programs, Hexie had included all the geo info for the Daz figure which was 'hidden'.

    Post edited by patience55 on
  • sircamillosircamillo Posts: 13
    edited December 1969

    It is easy to crash Hex when you get in a hurry, but after years using it I've learned and it seldom crashes on me. I've recently upgraded to a Dell XPS with an Intel I 7 processor, 12 gig ram and windows 8, and to my delight, Hex 2.5 runs great.

    I have and use Zbrush 4r5, and sometimes use Blender or Carrara for modeling but Hex is so comfortable that I most often use it for modeling.

    Here is a recent model I created in Hex. 107,255 polygons.

    Mars-RV.jpg
    1280 x 720 - 87K
  • bighbigh Posts: 8,147
    edited December 1969

    sircamillo said:
    It is easy to crash Hex when you get in a hurry, but after years using it I've learned and it seldom crashes on me. I've recently upgraded to a Dell XPS with an Intel I 7 processor, 12 gig ram and windows 8, and to my delight, Hex 2.5 runs great.

    I have and use Zbrush 4r5, and sometimes use Blender or Carrara for modeling but Hex is so comfortable that I most often use it for modeling.

    Here is a recent model I created in Hex. 107,255 polygons.

    neat model

  • GhostmanGhostman Posts: 215
    edited December 1969

    sircamillo said:
    It is easy to crash Hex when you get in a hurry, but after years using it I've learned and it seldom crashes on me. I've recently upgraded to a Dell XPS with an Intel I 7 processor, 12 gig ram and windows 8, and to my delight, Hex 2.5 runs great.

    I have and use Zbrush 4r5, and sometimes use Blender or Carrara for modeling but Hex is so comfortable that I most often use it for modeling.

    Here is a recent model I created in Hex. 107,255 polygons.

    Very nice work. :)

  • kenmokenmo Posts: 906
    edited December 1969

    sircamillo said:
    It is easy to crash Hex when you get in a hurry, but after years using it I've learned and it seldom crashes on me. I've recently upgraded to a Dell XPS with an Intel I 7 processor, 12 gig ram and windows 8, and to my delight, Hex 2.5 runs great.

    I have and use Zbrush 4r5, and sometimes use Blender or Carrara for modeling but Hex is so comfortable that I most often use it for modeling.

    Here is a recent model I created in Hex. 107,255 polygons.

    Nice model...

  • XoechZXoechZ Posts: 1,102
    edited December 1969

    Please, let me ask an additional question about ZBrush (to anyone who owns and uses it):

    Is ZBrush also useable for box-modeling? Has is similar functions like Hex?
    Or is ZBrush the "sculpt me like clay" type of software only?

    I have tried Sculptris (a free very very light version of ZBrush) but I could not make friends with that kind of workflow.

    Can I also box-model something like a car or a gun in ZBrush? Or is it really made for organic shapes only?

    Sorry for all those questions, but ZBrush is not cheap, and there is no trial, so I simply have to ask :-)

  • GhostmanGhostman Posts: 215
    edited December 1969

    XoechZ said:
    Please, let me ask an additional question about ZBrush (to anyone who owns and uses it):

    Is ZBrush also useable for box-modeling? Has is similar functions like Hex?
    Or is ZBrush the "sculpt me like clay" type of software only?

    I have tried Sculptris (a free very very light version of ZBrush) but I could not make friends with that kind of workflow.

    Can I also box-model something like a car or a gun in ZBrush? Or is it really made for organic shapes only?

    Sorry for all those questions, but ZBrush is not cheap, and there is no trial, so I simply have to ask :-)

    Box-modeling no! But you can make whatever you like in it though from concept to finished work. It used to be an organic only program, but with the latest updates (all versions and upgrades are free once you've bought it) you can do hard surface modeling with ease.
    Sculptris is a stand alone program that is only similar to Zbrush. It's not a light version of it. The only thing they have in common is that they both use the sculpting method. You should head over to pixologic.com and check out the Classroom section. That way you can see yr self what you can and cannot do with it.

  • XoechZXoechZ Posts: 1,102
    edited December 1969

    Thanks for the info Ghostman.

    So ZBrush seems to be a great program, but not a valid alternative to Hexagon. I simply cannot live without box modeling :-)
    That is the way I have learned modeling and thats the way I start all my modeling projects. Of course I could create the base mesh in Hex and then refine it in ZBrush, but for that only it is a bit too expensive for me.

  • GhostmanGhostman Posts: 215
    edited December 1969

    XoechZ said:
    Thanks for the info Ghostman.

    So ZBrush seems to be a great program, but not a valid alternative to Hexagon. I simply cannot live without box modeling :-)
    That is the way I have learned modeling and thats the way I start all my modeling projects. Of course I could create the base mesh in Hex and then refine it in ZBrush, but for that only it is a bit too expensive for me.

    I do all my base modeling in Hex and then I take it further in Zbrush. Works very good.

  • bpaturzo_45a8131c2bbpaturzo_45a8131c2b Posts: 2
    edited December 1969

    I do not work for Luxology or the Foundry, BUT:

    IMHO once you try modo, you will probably find it hard to use anything else for modeling. I love silo -- it is very "zen" in its simplicity, but the lads are tired of developing for it, so we had a nice run.....

    modo is the best modeler -- IMHO -- out there, especially if you like box modeling. Just doodling with it, I came up with a piece of "dystopian future" hardware that looked like a jet engine/ion cannon/whatever. Honestly, that's why I said "doodling" -- because it's actually fun to use and I don't fight with it to do something creative. What a concept!

    cinema4d is also good, but I've noticed that some of the new features started with modo, just like strata 3d's new features. Everybody upgrades as things get developed. It's all good.

    modo is complex, but not impossible to learn. 3dgarage has some excellent tutorials for newbies.

    Now, price. $1495 is a lot, but if you qualify, an academic license is $139. But -- Steam is selling a version of modo for $119 -- how this compares with the "full" version I don't know, but it is being sold for modeling so it might be just what you need.

    Good luck, and pm me if you want to know anything more specific.
    ;-P

  • ncampncamp Posts: 345
    edited December 1969

    Astrin said:
    I do not work for Luxology or the Foundry, BUT:

    IMHO once you try modo, you will probably find it hard to use anything else for modeling. I love silo -- it is very "zen" in its simplicity, but the lads are tired of developing for it, so we had a nice run.....

    modo is the best modeler -- IMHO -- out there, especially if you like box modeling. Just doodling with it, I came up with a piece of "dystopian future" hardware that looked like a jet engine/ion cannon/whatever. Honestly, that's why I said "doodling" -- because it's actually fun to use and I don't fight with it to do something creative. What a concept!

    cinema4d is also good, but I've noticed that some of the new features started with modo, just like strata 3d's new features. Everybody upgrades as things get developed. It's all good.

    modo is complex, but not impossible to learn. 3dgarage has some excellent tutorials for newbies.

    Now, price. $1495 is a lot, but if you qualify, an academic license is $139. But -- Steam is selling a version of modo for $119 -- how this compares with the "full" version I don't know, but it is being sold for modeling so it might be just what you need.

    Good luck, and pm me if you want to know anything more specific.
    ;-P


    The steam version looks extremely limited. For example, saving to an .obj is disabled. The steam version is specifically for making game engine models. Commercial use outside of that is prohibited.

    By the way, Modo is on sale for 40% off until Christmas Eve. If you are going to buy it, now is the time.

    ncamp

  • GhostmanGhostman Posts: 215
    edited December 1969

    Astrin said:
    I do not work for Luxology or the Foundry, BUT:

    IMHO once you try modo, you will probably find it hard to use anything else for modeling. I love silo -- it is very "zen" in its simplicity, but the lads are tired of developing for it, so we had a nice run.....

    modo is the best modeler -- IMHO -- out there, especially if you like box modeling. Just doodling with it, I came up with a piece of "dystopian future" hardware that looked like a jet engine/ion cannon/whatever. Honestly, that's why I said "doodling" -- because it's actually fun to use and I don't fight with it to do something creative. What a concept!

    cinema4d is also good, but I've noticed that some of the new features started with modo, just like strata 3d's new features. Everybody upgrades as things get developed. It's all good.

    modo is complex, but not impossible to learn. 3dgarage has some excellent tutorials for newbies.

    Now, price. $1495 is a lot, but if you qualify, an academic license is $139. But -- Steam is selling a version of modo for $119 -- how this compares with the "full" version I don't know, but it is being sold for modeling so it might be just what you need.

    Good luck, and pm me if you want to know anything more specific.
    ;-P

    Both C4d and Modo is really good modeler. Bought them both but haven't got much time yet due to RL work to really dig into them.
    It is however something I'm really looking forward to. :)

  • Sky HndxSky Hndx Posts: 142
    edited December 1969

    This is what I've been able to come with using Hexagon 2.5 on my XP Home OS. The characters are Michael 4 and the hair is from Neftis but everything else, clothing, set and creatures were modeled in Hex. I have a few things unticked in the Preference Editor and the only time it crashes on me is if I click too quickly while UV mapping.

    _5_c14.jpg
    1342 x 621 - 139K
  • Enso1405Enso1405 Posts: 3
    edited December 1969

    XoechZ said:
    Hello!

    I have spent some hours to model a nice armor belt and a pantie. Now it looks nice and I am trying to apply shading domains. But this is simply not possible. Every time I try it crashes. Tried 100 times, 100 crashes are the result. Something is terribly wrong here. I even cannot select a single face on the belt without having a crash. So all the time and work was useless.

    Now I think I am done with this crappy Hexagon. I really liked it, the useage is easy and it´s fun to work with. But it is much too unstable. Sorry, this is not acceptable. I wonder how DAZ dares to take money for this piece of .... This is not even beta software in my eyes.

    Sorry, but I am really a bit upset in the moment :-)

    So, who can suggest me a good alternative software to Hexagon, which is also easy to use and does not cost hundreds or thousands of dollars. Oh, and please don´t say Blender. I know it is free, but hard to learn and not really useable without learning many many keyboard shortcuts, which is definitely not working for me. I am used to work with mouse or tablet only, and I don´t want to change that.

    Thank you!

    I have the same problem and I'm gonna switch to blender open source and free.

  • Subtropic PixelSubtropic Pixel Posts: 2,379
    edited December 1969

    XoechZ said:
    ...Hex works like a charm as long as I play with some simple primitives. But as soon as I model something a bit more complicated it crashes all the time....

    DAZ really needs to step up and fix Hexagon.

    But beyond that, I wonder if it's possible that your model might be crashing the program due to some invalid geometry? I would not know how to check this, or how to fix it, but it's an idea for you to look into.

  • useroperatoruseroperator Posts: 247
    edited December 2013

    hexagon usually crashes because of invalid/twisted geometry, especially when you're using dynamic smoothing. when you smooth something, the smoothing is not complete until you check off dynamic geometry. doing things like extrudes on dynamic geometry, especially complex geometries, will cause a crash.

    dynamic geometry is essentially like a virtual smoothing that keeps the integrity of the original model prior to any smoothing, which allowing you to still manipulate the object as if it was smoothed.

    another problem is if you use too many undo levels, especially with complex high poly models. each one of those undo levels is stored, so if you make 10 changes to a 100K poly model, you have 10 variations of that model sitting in memory.

    Post edited by useroperator on
  • Mage 13X13Mage 13X13 Posts: 433
    edited December 2013

    I am having a problem with Hexagon in which I can create my models and they are OK, but when I try exporting them, Hexagon crashes! It does not matter how complex or simple the model is, and resetting the preferences and so forth does not fix the problem. Even the DAZ Studio Bridge causes a crash.

    I was trying to create some special Text Objects, using various fonts, and could not get anything exported in any format. What is more, even the file save feature is causing a crash! I have two other modeling apps, Blender and Wings3D, but Hexagon has the Fonts library readily available. Blender has you jumping through hoops to make a text object, and I need a special plugin to get the text creating tools to work in Wings3D, which I am unable to find. Hexagon also does text far cleaner than the other two. That is why I want to use Hexagon for creating the model.

    Several months ago Hexagon was crashing on me too, but resetting the preferences to default fixed it! This time however I have been unable to fix it at all, and I am unable to get anything out of it for use in my other apps! And the fact that there have been no updates since I got it is not good at all, as that compounds the problem. This bug that causes Hexagon to crash so often is getting on my last nerve. How is a person to do any serious modeling with problems like this? None of my other art apps have this problem at all.

    Before you reply to this post, I have to tell you that I know about n-gons, twisted polygons, and the other things that can cause it to crash, and I have gone through my whole check list several times already. None of those things are what is causing the crashes this time! I'm beginning to wonder why I even keep Hexagon on my machine, since it has been a problem riddled app for me since I first launched it! If I were asked to review and critique the current build of Hexagon, It would not be a good one, for sure! I am just about fed up with it!

    Post edited by Mage 13X13 on
  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 2,247
    edited December 1969

    Have you triangulated the N-gons in the text before exporting? Not doing that will always cause a crash.

    Try using EleFont for making text http://www.armanisoft.ch/elefont/Elefont.html - it outputs in .dxf, which you can import to Hex and export as .obj without N-gons.

  • Mage 13X13Mage 13X13 Posts: 433
    edited December 1969

    Roygee said:
    Have you triangulated the N-gons in the text before exporting? Not doing that will always cause a crash.

    Try using EleFont for making text http://www.armanisoft.ch/elefont/Elefont.html - it outputs in .dxf, which you can import to Hex and export as .obj without N-gons.


    By triangulate, I assume you mean tesselate, which is what turns quads into triangles. There is a setting bar for Tesselate in the text type in panel. I may have set that wrong. If that is what fixes it, I thank you!

    I go to try that now! :D

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited December 1969

    Mage 13X13 said:
    Roygee said:
    Have you triangulated the N-gons in the text before exporting? Not doing that will always cause a crash.

    Try using EleFont for making text http://www.armanisoft.ch/elefont/Elefont.html - it outputs in .dxf, which you can import to Hex and export as .obj without N-gons.


    By triangulate, I assume you mean tesselate, which is what turns quads into triangles. There is a setting bar for Tesselate in the text type in panel. I may have set that wrong. If that is what fixes it, I thank you!

    I go to try that now! :D

    Now I wouldn't make that assumption as Roygee does know the correct terms. Triangulate - look under Tools, Utilities.

  • Mage 13X13Mage 13X13 Posts: 433
    edited December 1969

    Patience55 said:
    Mage 13X13 said:
    Roygee said:
    Have you triangulated the N-gons in the text before exporting? Not doing that will always cause a crash.

    Try using EleFont for making text http://www.armanisoft.ch/elefont/Elefont.html - it outputs in .dxf, which you can import to Hex and export as .obj without N-gons.


    By triangulate, I assume you mean tesselate, which is what turns quads into triangles. There is a setting bar for Tesselate in the text type in panel. I may have set that wrong. If that is what fixes it, I thank you!

    I go to try that now! :D

    Now I wouldn't make that assumption as Roygee does know the correct terms. Triangulate - look under Tools, Utilities.


    In some apps Tesselate is the term that is used. What it is for is to make quadrangles and higher side count polygons into triangles. Oddly in Hexagon only some quads become tris. I could not say why that is!

    I went and tried the Tesselate settings in the text type in panel, and then attempted an export in .obj format, and it worked, so obviously the Tesselate settings have a lot to do with the problem.

    Even if Triangulate and Tesselate are not the same thing in Hexagon, your response led me to the problem, and I was able to get it fixed! So I thank you!

    Now if I could just get back those four weeks I lost on this!

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 2,247
    edited December 1969

    That is one of the confusing things about different software using the same terms for different functions terms - tessellate actually means to "cut up into or lay out a pattern" - Hex's use of the term is pretty accurate for what it does and there are many forms a mesh can be tessellated in Hex, including cutting up into tri's :)

    To get to the 3D text question - the tessellate function in the text box makes the text smoother the higher you set it - but it still leaves the face of the text as really ugly N-gons. If it does manage to save as an .obj without crashing, it will still depend on your rendering app whether or not this will be successful. Daz studio makes a right mess of the N-gons, while Carrara has no problem with them, so always safer to triangulate the N-gons, using the function mentioned by Patience.

    I mentioned EleFont because it gives you many more options for manipulating text than Hex does.

    Glad you managed to get the .obj exported :)

  • stem_athomestem_athome Posts: 518
    edited December 1969

    Roygee said:
    Have you triangulated the N-gons in the text before exporting? Not doing that will always cause a crash.

    I have never seen that problem. I have even just checked in the latest version which is exporting the text with n-gons without error.

  • stem_athomestem_athome Posts: 518
    edited December 1969

    Mage 13X13 said:
    Several months ago Hexagon was crashing on me too, but resetting the preferences to default fixed it! This time however I have been unable to fix it at all,......

    Sounds like a corrupted preference file.

    Sometimes the Hexagon preference file will become corrupted, and resetting the file will not work. You will then need to delete the preference file and let Hexagon create a new file when it starts.

    Where the preference file is, will depend on your OS. For Win7 it is hidden in the "Users / {your name} / Appdata / Roaming / DAZ 3D / Hexagon 2" folder. It is the "Preferences.xml" document.

    To see that folder you may need to change your windows setting to show hidden files/folders.

  • Mage 13X13Mage 13X13 Posts: 433
    edited December 1969

    Steve athome said:
    Mage 13X13 said:
    Several months ago Hexagon was crashing on me too, but resetting the preferences to default fixed it! This time however I have been unable to fix it at all,......

    Sounds like a corrupted preference file.

    Sometimes the Hexagon preference file will become corrupted, and resetting the file will not work. You will then need to delete the preference file and let Hexagon create a new file when it starts.

    Where the preference file is, will depend on your OS. For Win7 it is hidden in the "Users / {your name} / Appdata / Roaming / DAZ 3D / Hexagon 2" folder. It is the "Preferences.xml" document.

    To see that folder you may need to change your windows setting to show hidden files/folders.
    Excellent advice, but I was able to find the problem by misunderstanding the question of another posting here! lol
    Funny how that happens sometimes.
    At any rate, I thank you for the info! :D

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited December 1969

    Experience with Hexagon leaves one quite a library of "work a-rounds" ... if one way won't work, try another. End result is being a useable model.

    Before learning about how to fix the text in Hexagon, I discovered that if one makes the "text" object in Hexagon, then plants it INTO another .obj [i.e. text on a sign], upon export out/import into D/S, it might actually look okay.

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 2,247
    edited December 1969

    I have never seen that problem. I have even just checked in the latest version which is exporting the text with n-gons without error.

    Just done some more experimentation on this. If I ungroup then weld the individual letters (my SOP) without triangulating the N-gons, it crashes every time. However, the same text exports as .obj and imports OK if I just leave it as a group and export as is. When it's imported back into Hex, some of the letters have had the N-gons triangulated and others not. Invariably, it is the closed letters that have been triangulated.

    Seems to me that Hex can handle exporting single characters with N-gons, but not a whole word with a lot of individual N-gons.

    Steve - could you try this and see what results you get?

    hexngon.jpg
    1024 x 768 - 169K
  • stem_athomestem_athome Posts: 518
    edited December 2013

    Roygee said:
    Just done some more experimentation on this. If I ungroup then weld the individual letters (my SOP) without triangulating the N-gons, it crashes every time.After "welding the text together->export" it does crash Hexagon latest version, but does not crash V2.1 or V1.0
    (V2.1 and V1 are the ones I use, if using Hexagon).

    When it's imported back into Hex, some of the letters have had the N-gons triangulated and others not. Invariably, it is the closed letters that have been triangulated.
    Hexagon cannot handle n-gons correctly (never has). That is why, for example, if you have a letter "O" and attempt to Tessalate it, Hexagon will not allow that and put forward(on info line) "Doesn't work on objects with holed faces".

    Seems to me that Hex can handle exporting single characters with N-gons, but not a whole word with a lot of individual N-gons.It looks like another of the new [crash]bugs DAZ was so kind to add to the latest version.

    Post edited by stem_athome on
  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 2,247
    edited December 1969

    It looks like another of the new [crash]bugs DAZ was so kind to add to the latest version.

    Daz bugs - the gift that keeps on giving :)

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