ZDG random Daz Studio discoveries and questions.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2017

    hear that. I'm about to find out is the current dog food is a good beta or a nonfunctional WIP. lol.   First thing's first, finding the beta zip in DIM's folder and making a copy of it incase things go south.

    I also noticed that it did not look like the belly button morph was on by default, so that should reduce the unintentional gut-punch effects, lol.

    The joy of updates. I think most of them are "undocumented updates" as well, lol.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited June 2017

    nifty, looks like the eyelashes are a separate obj.

    So I guess they can be heavily modded now, I guess. I'm not sure if it follows bones like an outfit or if it is a geograph that did not load in older variants of Daz Studio...

    ok, that looks like a rigging nightmare. I had other stuff I wanted to work on today, and I think I just opened a can of worms.  Well, the eyelids look like they move well with the eyelashes using the close eyes dial, so maybe there is something for PA's there.

    Just not for me, cuz I can't spell to save my life  . And that was the last of my mental ambition for today, lol.  Time for some coffee/food, and to look at some other stuff.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited July 2017

    ok, it has been a very long few days, and this post is even the day after.  Tho good accurate info is worth waiting for.

    There have been some rumors that I thought was a bit over the top, and others that sounded about on par. The first being that Vega would be Iray capable, That is false for so many reasons not to say the least Iray is Nvidia proprietary intellectual property and requires dedicated CUDA stuff specific to Iray to function on a GPU. Vega can NOT do Iray, and probably never will, unless a lot of cooperation between AMD and Nvidia take place (yeah right, lol). Now granted, Iray is not the only render engine out there, I'll refer to Steve and the exhausted GN crew for the other render engines, like Blender (It functions with a new driver), Maya, 3DS, and others. (GN does also have a text article with test charts as well)

    PCper was able to get Luxmark working on the previous driver for Vega, tho I have a few notes. First off I have no clue how Luxmark correlates to Luxus or Reality plugins for Daz Studio. Second off, unless PCper held off on shipping the card back and is willing to run the tests again, the updated Vega drivers that do function with Blender had a few other changes as well that may have altered the cards performance some (I would not expect drastic improvements beyond making stuff work).

    It is an interesting card, to say the least, even tho it is not for Iray. The cooler is very impressive, and it can be opened up to clean out persistent dust rhinos with only six T5 screws on the top blue shell. In comparison, all the Nvidia cards I've seen require screwdriver yoga contortions and are half a step away from only being able to get to the cooling fins by opening it up from the inside out, lol.  Something else that struck me about the Vega FE PCB, is the complete lack of tall can capacitors interfering with airflow.

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  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933
    So I guess they can be heavily modded now, I guess. I'm not sure if it follows bones like an outfit or if it is a geograph that did not load in older variants of Daz Studio...

    ok, that looks like a rigging nightmare.

    I was hoping they'd go for an anatomy-based expression rig _this_ _time_. Nope. Sad.

    The eyelashes seem to be simple conformers. Nice but transmapped =( There are fibermesh conformer eyelashes for the G3 generation on that rival webstore =D I think they're awesome. Have yet to see if they do convert automagically to G8 or not, but there's always manual tinkering. Thank the devs for the transfer utility =)

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited July 2017

    I completely forgot about that, and at the same time, was thinking I need to look over my notes from last year to see how I had done some stuff that I've forgotten how to do (Thank Coffee for notes and breadcrumbs, if I made any notes on that, lol).  I do remember that I had to redo something in scratch in hex cuz the clone for the transfer utility wasn't a dead match resulting in surfaces going through another. (and I'm not even sure I'm allowed to say that much about the transfer-thing, lol). A consiquence of constently moving goal posts I guess.

    Time to have some coffee and look over some notes. I am so far behind on so much stuff, lol.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited July 2017

    ok, this only took all week to make with non-daz related distractions, lol.

    I have a few minor measurement's to double check, then I can make it into a double-slot bracket card.

    I almost wonder if Blender ever got UDIM support that was not flaky as all hell.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited July 2017

    Still tinkering.

    and I just noticed something cool looking for drawing.

    Looks like it would be incredibly helpful for making texture maps in GIMP, if it works the way I think it does. (wacom bamboo fun tablet).

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited July 2017

    ok, looks like some 32GB and 64GB kits have finally been approved for use on AM4, this is starting to be good for more affordable 3D render workstations.

    Aside from the larger kits not being available, good luck finding the 64GB 3000MHz cl16 kit (PVE464G300C6QKG). I think I may not be the only one around to not be thrilled by the cartoon looking memory facade, lol. Now there is nothing I can do for the availability thing, as for the more looks then cooler heat spreader, I may have some ideas that are not so cartoonish looking, lol.

    I just finished toiling over the basic DIMM PCB dimensions, so now I can see what is left for room for a heat spreader. The spec appears to indicate the max thickness to be only 4mm, and the PCB and chips comes out to around 3.5mm. That only leaves 0.25mm per side for a heat spreader over the chips, that's not much, lol. I don't think the spec I'm looking at is complete.

    Now, to be honest, I like the much more reserved look of the TeamGroup memory. That stuff looks like it is a tad more than 4mm thick as well. Sadly, it looks like even TeamGroup are also going more Power-Transformer style these days.

    I just had a (I'm an idiot) thought, why not measure the thickness of the DIMM socket, lol.  7.4mm is a tad more reasonable. Thats about 1.95 to around 1.75mm per side for the heat spreader, this I can work with.

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  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933

    Your electronic designs somehow make me sooo happy when I'm looking at them. Probably because they're so different to what people generally post on these forums =D

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited July 2017

    Thanks.  yeah, I've been using Daz Studio and Hex to work out 3D geometric puzzles more than rendering the past few months.

    Like the slight mod I made to the modified GTX1050Ti shroud, because that VRM gets hotter then I like.

    I am sort of happy with this preliminary DIMM heat spreader idea, for an evil reason.

    The heat-spreader marketing will hate, cuz you can't easily slap a giant product sticker on it, lol.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited July 2017

    oy vey, I give up. plug ins must be broken.

    I've copied it to both plug-in folders, I can not get the thing to appear in the menu at all. I give up. and yes I restarted Gimp a few times now to no avail.

    A few more restarts of Gimp, and it appeared in the list, so all good I guess. However, the filter is NOT what I was looking for, lol. So I guess I'll look at it later on.

    It was only a distraction after all regarding fixing old methods of resizing images and the artifacts that produce anyway.

    FFT is just another blur that removes all details below a preset radius from the looks of it instead of undoing the waffle line artifact only, so not what I was looking for.

    Now granted, the above example was made with rather consistent horizontal and vertical sum-line spacings, not all images that were resized using the old as dirt method have such consistency with line spacings. It would be nice if there was a Gimp filter that focused solely on horizontal and vertical lines only to preserve what little detail remained in older images (for fixing the effects of resized images using the old method). 

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  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933

    Maybe there's some useful algo in the G'MIC? Or a way to finetune the Fourier transform? I ony have experience using FFT for audio noise reduction not image editing =( but it is a powerful math tool in theory.

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited July 2017

    That it is, and my understanding of the inner workings of FFT is not all that extensive. I do know that it is some how responsible for all the cool waterfall graphs on many things (like this example of a received signal from Stereo A).

    I'm not sure FFT is truly what is needed to undo the waffle patron from resized images back in the day, certainly a radius in all directions needs to be refined somehow tho. FFT is perfect for removing speckle noise, just not consistent grid-line squish-noise, lol.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited July 2017

    hmmm, well, back to more days like stuff. I spent an entire day fussing in hex to make some parts for something I've noticed that there's none of for daz Studio, and it needs a lot more work still.

    Also rigging this is going to be hell, to say the least. It is needed tho, so it must be done.

    First I need to fix some of the corners that a sixteen sided circle is not enough sides to not have jagged corners, and some parts are not exactly the shape I wanted anyway. so some of the parts will need to be made again from almost scratch.

    Well, that part is looking closer to something almost real, almost, lol. Needs more work.

    ok, very long day, and a bit of tedious edge work later, ugh. The rest can wait till after some shut eye.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited July 2017

    I decided to try something I thought would be stupid simple, I even have the thing in hand with a pair of digital calipers to get the measurements spot on.

    I figured it would be simple to make one side, then copy and paste it around to make the three sides of the head of the file.

    However, apparently equilateral triangles are the most difficult shapes to nail, lol.

    Chock this one up as a win of stubborn persistence, lol.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited July 2017

    so much happened this morning, and just as I was about to upload a quick render, well, anyway. It was a long night and I went through a few different ways of merging the handle mesh up to the file working end, and I kept running into surface shading anomalies.

    After I discovered that all I needed to do was add edge loops, I got sucked in to finishing that file, lol. (head on desk from exhaustion). That one is done. I still have not decided what I'll do with the rod clamp top yet.

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  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933

    Those files are top-notch =D

  • Thanks! I have some tapered variants of the triangle file to make and some half-round (more like a quarter circle) and full cylindrical files to make still. I only wish I had the computer and skills to make stuff this good, perhaps someday.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qjl78P9IRo

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited July 2017

    ok, Why is it so impossible to make outfits that fit figures, when the shape of the figure keeps changing. Well, I don't entirely know, and it may be so complicated I will never fully grasp all the cogs and gears that make the entire auto-follow system function, and break as well.

    Red is what the dial projection data is doing to the outfit for a figure shape, and green is what it is doing to the figure. They somehow happen at the same time, yet are two completely separate sets of point move data, I guess. It is all very complicated, and I'm even lost with what little I do barely comprehend about the entire system.  Bottom line is, if the figure shape differs from what the dial outfit projection data was made for, things will not work. And like wise, if the outfit does not fit the actual figure shape, the figure shaping dials will only make matters more difficult to fix.

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  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933

    That video is cool... I suspect the modeling was done in a CAD app, though. It just makes more sense for a precision demo like that, rather than trying to use a general "artistic" modeler.

    I just got reminded of how much of a mixed blessing autofit is: was dressing my heavily dialed, scaled and custom-morphed Genesis character and saw that just about every morph affects conforming clothing very noticeably (even the clothing originally made for Genesis, not converted from other figures down or up the generations). Even a slight dial of morphs that give the figure slightly asymmetric ab muscles - your pant belt will be all distorted.

    Dialing out the hidden autofit morphs in the clothing is doable, but in my case it became too much of a chore.

    Basically, if you only use one shape dial, autofit can be awesome. But if you have a lot of those...

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited July 2017

    yea, I've run into outfit overlapping issues a lot of late, tho that is my fault for using things on top of other stuff that was never intended to be used with it, lol. Some times I can get away with finding adjustment dials to work not as intended to get around the overlap some, other times it takes D-former origami. Tho the past week I've been working on simpler stuff.

    I also took the past two days of free time to make some more random things for funny stuff. Fwsa Sandi on the left (some custom ears and other shaping stuff) is now sporting the most precisely crafted jewelry ever made, lol. Naked 7700k earrings, and an 'Epyc' necklace . The modern art designs crafted into the imbedded glass crystals are very impressive, lol.  I'm still not sure what I'm going to do for Fwsa Mina-mika7 on the right. (And no, I don't think Buildzoid knows about the shirt yet, it's a bit of a WIP)

    I know the size of the Epyc MCM I made is wrong. I only have a handful of fuzzy photos and a listed CPU glass size to work with. If I scale the photos to match the 8.87mm listed width of the Ryzen chip, then the smaller components are squished on the edge in that direction. If I scale the pics so all the smaller components are all the same size, then the CPU Die is NOT 8.87mm wide (as it is listed here as being).  The Epyc MCM size is wrong, tho it is good enough for CG renders.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited July 2017

    ok, I've been toiling over something for about a month now, and I even made a crude approximation of the card in Hax/daz to look at options.

    The debate is not the red made area for cooling that Vreg IC between the plugs, it is the blue and green marks for letting some air flow across the motherboard where the onboard NIC stuff is. The blue mark would get me the most out of the space between slots on the back of the computer, however, I don't think I have a Dremel wheel small enough to make the cuts for that. The green would also work ok, however, I'm not sure how much that would weaken the bracket. Hence the delay in cutting up the card, lol. Guess I should open the box for my new Dremel and see what cutting implements it came with

    The other thing I've needed to do for over three years now, is cutting an exhaust vent for the lower HDD rack in my comp (marked in blue on the back). That will require gutting the workstation to keep metal shavings away from the electronics, and I'm just not ready to do without my computer for the week or so it would take to do that, not yet.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited July 2017

    well, the operation was a success 

    in that, at least the computer booted back up after the mods. I've yet to run any benchmarks to see how the thermals are under load, however, the temps at idle are much better now.

    The mods to the computer, not just the card, was rather drastic tho.

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  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933

    yes

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited July 2017

    ok, working on a funny render, however, I'll make a small note before I've even looked at any reviews this morning.

    you have four workers grinding parts in a factory. What would you rather have them use? two grinders with a grinding wheel at each end, or four single wheel grinders on separate desks.

    Now to be honest, If I need something that low power, small, or lean, I'll go with Arm and VxWorks. I've never realy had that much intrest in lower end x86 stuff.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited July 2017

    I've been thinking about this R3 and i3/i5 thing for some time. And considering options like the FX8350 and i7-7700k, I can not advise the R3 for a rendering box, not for the CPU performance alone. As an upgrade path to eventually having a R7 1700x, I even have doubts there for the time being. You see, for rendering in 3D you need lots of good performing memory, not just a fast CPU to run the ray trace calculations on.

    And as of now, Ryzen just does not have it, and nor does x299 from Intel for different reasons. Ryzen is stuck at 2400MHz memory with more than 16GB of memory, and that is willfully inadequate for modern generation figures with 4k texture maps (and larger). The former scene with Fwsa Paloma and Fwsa Mina ate around 18GB of memory, you can't do that on a 16GB Ryzen system. As for x299, it has a host of connectivity issues with lower end processors (Stuf on the Motherboard simply will not work without the PCIe lanes from the processor), and I even have doubts about the thermal capabilities of the i9 processors under prolonged 3delight loads. So, given all that, it does not look good right now for upgrading 3D workstations at all on a budget.    Your better off keeping the FX8350/8370 or i7-7700k a bit longer in the 3D work station.

    I already have 32GB of memory, I am not looking at getting only 32GB of memory at a pathetic 1866MHz or 2400MHz clock, I want 64GB or more at around 3000MHz (No body benchmarked blender at slower memory speeds). And for Intel, that lowest PCIe slot is a must have for a HDD controller card if not to get the Iray compute card away from the Vidio out cards intake fans. And what is up Intel with x299 VRMs overheating under load and the thermal paste on the i9   Also with the price of memory for 32GB and more of DDR4 if you already have 32GB of memory, the prices right now Do Not justify the cost, they simply don't.

    I do have thoughts for the R3, however, I need to look at how it weighs in against other low watt contenders for non-3D stuff (like a NAS/HPSS server for content). T.B.C. (I really really need to make a uATX motherboard 3D model)

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited July 2017

    It's taking far longer than I expected it to make parts for what I had in mind.

    I still need to bake the parts into single items, tho it is getting there at least for the NIC.

    This may take a bit, lol.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited August 2017

    ok, one last glimpse of what is in this (hypothetical) card before I cover it all up with a shroud.

    The fan is at that angle for a very good reason.

    And that particular fan, is just a size placeholder by the way, lol.

    And after a very long day of fussing with quads in hex, lol.

    Well, the concept is there, lol.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited August 2017

    I've been on Driver version 381.65 for some time, because it works, mostly, without crashing.

    Now I do recall some older drivers had problems getting cards to fire on all cylinders, especially early on with the GT730 (GK208),

    akin to this graph posted by MEC4D

    I do not have the GT730, as it ended up in my mom's computer, the GT740 refused to post. So I am down to just the one graphics card at the moment, tho I do hope to rectify that in short order. So, in any case, why all this chatter about drivers and GPU usage in Iray, well, yesterday Nvidia announced a driver for Titan Xp (second pascal Titan iteration) that claimed to have significant improvements for performance in stuff like Miya.  At first, I thought it to be bogus, tho, if the older driver is wasting two-thirds of the GPU time cycling compute on and off like in MEC4D's example, then there is a lot of room for improvement with 3D rendering there. (The new driver in MEC4D's graph was 368.81 from back in July of 2016, not the new beta 385.12)

    One major let down, is that the new driver in question from yesterday's Nvidia announcement is a Beta driver and not ready for production, and I doubt it also does anything for lower end pascel cards as well.

    And from my lowly GTX1050Ti on the 381.65 drivers, there is not a lot of downtime to utilize for more gains as well.

    Now, I did get the latest 384.94 driver from just before the announced beta, and the 385.12 beta. I, however, may not have time to test them myself, and I'm not that tempted to break something that already works well enough for me, lol. The bottom line is that I guess there is some room for improvement of GPU utilization with some drivers for some things, however, for the GT730, GT740, GTX960, and GTX1050Ti, the former 381.65 driver (on windows 7) keeps the GPU at near 100% usage most of the time for Iray, and I doubt there is anywhere a two times or three times boost in render performance can be scavenged from that  .  As for the claimed Titan Xp 3x performance boost, I have no clue if or where Nvidia is getting that from.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited August 2017

    In separate news, I'm finally looking at airflow paths after spending a bit over a week making mock-up cards and stuff, for an idea I had.

    I'm not sure about the memory wall, it's about as bad as the intake side of many GPU cards.

    And it is not a subtle bit of air blockage as well.

    I don't think there is anything I can do about that, so moving on.

    As for that R3 idea from a few days ago. Because the Ryzen lineup is NOT sacrificing PCIe lanes on the lower watt lower core count parts, It may be a very viable option for a cool running, low watt, quiet, NAS.  The only way to do that on the intel line up is to go with the most expensive parts just to have the needed PCIe lanes, and that would be an incredible waste of everything other than the IO it offers. Not to mention the cooling requirements of the thing and how loud the fans and/or pumps would be just to keep it cool.

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