ZDG random Daz Studio discoveries and questions.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited September 2018

    oh, that is fantastic. Many websites autodetect my location and give me the other units. I can understand how that is 'supposed' to be good for commerce, however just looking up random stats on metric house dimensions not so much, lol. I will assume the Ceramic granite floor tile sizes apply to most cut stone. I did manage to find two, just two, metric tape measures at the local hardware store, so hopefully, soon I can get around to measuring some things and making some guess of what they would be in metric whole numbers. Like my kitchen counter and stove top is 36 inches (3 feet) off the floor, about 91.4-ish cm.  I wonder if that was at 90.0 cm if it would feel any different to work on those surfaces.  243.7 or 243.8cm for the ceiling (8.0 feet), hmmmm, that's where it gets interesting as that is more an ergonomic thing rather than universal constant based, lol.. Tho for making a building, 300cm stories with about 50cm for beams and stuff between the ceiling and next floor up is not so bad to work with I guess. I should draft out some things and see how they look in Daz Studio for that. Do I really want to put off heatsinks while playing with this info, tho I guess I could ask someone else what that basic stuff size is in their part of the world (UK).

    I was just looking at thermal dissipation of a VRM block about 9cm long, and the numbers are not looking so good, lol.

    I know the motherboard also dissipates heat as well, however, that "1000 degrees Celsius rise over ambient per watt per square centimeter" is not looking so good for that, lol.

    I think I figured out what I need to make, I just don't know if I can make it fit in that tiny VRM space, given the constraints of extruding and machining aluminum stock.

    I almost wonder if the CPU cooler is cooling the VRM through the power plane and socket on the motherboard, lol.

    P.S. thanks TI for this really good PDF on thermal design considerations. (Very technical)

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited September 2018

    ok, I was thinking for the past few weeks of a way to go into what is involved with making a heatsink, and some of the limitations of machining vs limitations of airflow and heat transfer through a heatsink. However at this point, I put it off for far too long, and it really is a very advanced field for me to simply do it complete justice in a brief quick pass over. So  I will do what I can, and say up front that yes I am simplifying so much, just to try to explain what and why in plain English that hopefully, most will be able to grasp what is going on. There are so many things to get lost in on the topics involved with making a heatsink, that I can sort of understand Marketing people getting the wrong impression about the complex maths involved. After drafting out a quick example of a heatsink with fins 2.5cm tall and comparing it to a 3D model of what I have on the GN R7 build motherboard, I think the maths may be very correct, as far as surface area is concerned.

    As for why some of the dimensions, well it comes down to what can be made without the fins slumping over before they cool during the extruding process, and what the limits are of cross-cutting extruded fins without the cutting tool folding over the fins in the process. With heatsinks going back to the 486 days and even heatsinks in home audio gear, I've noticed one simple trend for fin width across the ages, and I will guess that is for the extruding process, and minimum amount of metal to get heat to the end of the fins.

    As for fin height, well, I do think that 2.5cm may be pushing it, as far as getting heat to the tips of the fins for them to be worth having that long. I found one good example that shows what is going on in a scientific paper, the specific test matters less to me than the demonstration of what is going on in general regarding air flow and heat transfer along the fins.

    The further away from the base of the fin, the less heat there is because the former sections dissipated some of it and the metal also resists the flow of heat as well. This can also be seen in a thermal example of a PCB around an IC in that TI PDF.

    The hot spot immediately around the IC is dissipating more heat than the cooler area further away from the IC. Likewise eventually with ever longer fins, the less effective the extra length will dissipate heat.

    So, the longer the fin, the more metal you will need to get heat to the end of the fin. And there probably is a 'formula' for that, however, I just went with a what would probably work if it was water flowing through a set of pipes in the shape of the heatsink. It's why I have that bit of a bulge at the center of the heatsink, so more heat can get to the outer fins. That and to hopefully the fins further in getting a tad bit more fresh air from air flowing across the heatsink laterally. This is just a rough sketch, it needs a lot of work still, however, I feel even this is worlds better than most VRM fashion accessories, lol.

    There are tricks to increase the surface area of fins, and thus reduce the required height of them. I will need to play with some ideas for a bit on that, as it's only a thought at the moment.

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  •  I did manage to find two, just two, metric tape measures at the local hardware store

    So you don't really have those (Chinese-made) two-sided tapes and rulers that have both metric and Imperial?

     

    243.7 or 243.8cm for the ceiling (8.0 feet), hmmmm, that's where it gets interesting as that is more an ergonomic thing rather than universal constant based

    A few numbers from various apartment block series built in the USSR (in m):

    2.48

    2.50

    2.51

    2.55

    2.64

    2.70

    2.71

    This is Khruschev onwards; the Stalin era apartments had over 3 meters. Chronologically it's pretty random, higher ceilings don't come later or earlier, they just come "sometimes".

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited September 2018

    yeah, I also imagine that also varies due to what floor and subfloor work is increasing the height of the floor, and whatever coatings are on the ceiling as well. I wasn't sure if there was a defacto standard based on lumber lengths of brick sizes, or if it was whatever was convenient to do with the materials on hand at the time. I sort of like 2.5m as it's a simple number, lol.

    Digging through Google for a couple of minutes looking at European furniture sizes kind of brings up an interesting array of metric and British imperial units. It's like they are still trying to convert over to metric, and even then some things have me asking why.

    Just looking at that, has me asking why not just round out the numbers, as it's only a few CM to get nice even numbers. 100cm instead of 95cm, 300cm instead of 280cm, 400cm instead of 389, 200cm vs 195cm, etc. The only nice round number on that particular product is the height of the cushions at 40cm, lol.

    In any case, thanks for the numbers, I wasn't sure if I was off in the blue yonder or not regarding room sizes, especially ceiling and story heights. Oh, and yeah, the 2m tape and 8m tape have both units, and the markings are only there for 16inch wall stud spacings and silly stuff like that on the British imperial side, lol. I'll look online for something else next month, at least I have something longer than 30cm for measuring stuff now in metric, lol.

    EDIT, I just noticed the highlighted 40cm mark on the 8m tape, lol. I am also thinking something almost random in regard to the metric vs British imperial thing. A long time ago, it was just easier to say something was the size of something most people had, like a foot for example. However because so many people have different size bodies, there really was multiple sizes of a foot. I guess some thought specifying the size of the meter on the diameter of the earth would somehow be "Universal" in nature. The metre was originally defined in 1793 as one ten-millionth of the distance from the equator to the North Pole. Yet I'm sure that makes a Mars meter smaller than an earth meter, lol. because unlike all the other metric units, the meter is not directly related to a 'constant' it may actually be changed sometime in the distant future to better relate to things a bit more inclusive. Until then, manufacturers could make a profit producing stuff on Mercery in Murcery meters and selling them back to earth, lol. It's only a random thought tho.

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  • FistyFisty Posts: 3,416

    Well..  rooms are generally constructed to nice round sizes..  so if you have a wall that's exactly 400cm (seems like it would be a pretty common size) how easy is it going to be to put an exactly 400cm couch there?  You still need to have room for baseboard trim and enough slack to not damage the wall or couch getting it into position... and extra bonus points to having just enough space to plug a lamp into the outlet that's inevitably going to be stuck behind said couch.

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited September 2018

    a very good point, I had not considered wall plugs and was considering that to be something closer to the center of a room. As for the thickness of wallcoverings, I had been thinking about that as well. 40cm on center is nice to work with for wall stud spacing, tho it would lead to a smaller than round number sized room. I was just looking at that and asking why not joust round it out to 10's of CM, lol. I can see the number 400cm, and mentally still have no comprehension just how big or small that would be, it's just "a lot of " 30cm or 1-foot rulers, lol. I need to make some coffee, and to dig into a few things, as I still have figured out what to do with the VRM heatsink yet, and I also came across some interesting news regarding a DAW I have used in the past that I need to find out what is going to happen in the future.

    Also some of the former posts was making fun of commenters that seak out PBS shows in British imperial and complain about it not being in metric despite there being a BBC version in metric that they could have easily have watched instead, lol. In a way it sort of makes me feel bad being on the other side and simply having difficulty grasping dimensions in metric, I am working on it. I do hope to eventually comprehend what arbitrary numbers of CM and meters are without converting it to feet or miles, lol.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited September 2018

    I will say this is a very interesting set of wall clocks. (2k pic sizes in this post)

    This scene has been lingering in limbo for such a long time, I'm having difficulty remember everything I wanted to say about it.

    The outfit by EJ is very nice and I think works well for this. Keyhole dress stockings, and Egyptian sandals are not part of the dress, nor is the earrings.

    I think Octavia's nails and eyes also sort of work for this, even tho it almost looks like the 'extra' eye color set gives her a black eye almost of a look that I'm not too sure of at a distance.

    Up close the eyes are not so bad. Tho I almost think the clock like patron was meant for a different UV mapping than for Generation 7 eyes. The fingernails I do like, even tho I sort of wish a similar option was available for the toenails. Sometime in the past, I think I attempted to copy the nail textures into the correct locations for the toenail maps, tho I can't remember where that stuff went, lol.

    As for the wall clocks, I only have a few notes if you intend to use them for something other than a wall clock, lol. Scaling the size of the clocks does cause them to move around due to how the XYZ origins and whatnot are for them. The easy fix is to put a null about in the center of the clock, parent the clock to the null, then scale the null, and that will solve any clock moving away when scaling the size of it. Everything else works fine.

    (Edit, rerenderd all of these on the "GN R7 build" in Studio 4.11bets, no probs at all)

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  • The average door height is about 2000cm (1900cm exactly in most cases) and about 80cm in width - that should give you a good estimation. You should consider the size of your doors while buing a refrigerator or freezer - I'm talking from expirience.wink

  • prixatprixat Posts: 1,588

    I don't use cm at all. While it's an official SI unit, It's a bit of a non-unit, like decimetre.

    I use millimetres and metres (and km (and miles cheeky)).

    After many years of observation I'm beginning to think that the people who use cm are likely to be non-engineers or americans!

  • FistyFisty Posts: 3,416
    prixat said:
    After many years of observation I'm beginning to think that the people who use cm are likely to be non-engineers or americans!

    Or maybe they're someone who models in Hexagon.  cheeky

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited September 2018

    or uses Daz Studio, lol. Syrus_Dante, borrowing an image from a google search, I can see how the size of doors and windows can be a bit confusing without tossing in the  British Imperial vs Metric vs "Mars Meters" debates, lol.

    There is the hole in the wall that the window or the door frame installed into, then there is the outer dimensions of the frame that is sometimes larger than the hole in the wall to allow for sealing and stuff, Then there is the glass or dor size itself. 2M is a nice simple number for a door height, and I kind of like that, until I start thinking about the XYZ coordinates needed to make such a door or window frame, lol. At least it is not an irrational fraction, lol.

    It's kind of the same for computer parts, and I can totally understand why so many wanted to get rid of the Floppy drive bay despite so many devices using them (SD card readers, soundcard front panel controls, fan controllers, etc), And especially the dreaded CDROM bay. A floppy drive is 1.00 x 4.00 inches +/- 1000 of an inch. That works out to 2.54 x 10.16 CM. the CDROM bay is defined as  1.625 x 5.75 inches and even in metric that is 4.13 x 14.61 cm, and when stacking them you can see how bad it gets if you need two floppy and 4 CDROM bays in a case, lol. 5.08cm for the floppy drives and another 16.52cm for the CDROM bays, lol. Thatswhy I didn't get very far making computer cases in Hexagon, the decimal points just keep getting worse and worse when you try to center something that is already a Prime decimal, lol. and the Glorius 0.80 inch (2.032 CM) wide PCI slot is another one that just gets worse when you try to place 7 or 9 or 11 of them in metric space with only 3 digit decimal point precision in Hexagon, lol.

    I guess one of the major things I'm trying to figure out, is what is a good Generic room building block size, I guess almost like legos in a way.

    In other news,

    looks like there may be another card to consider floating around, the Tesla T4, a 75 watt card with 16GB of memory, and so far, Iray is NOT hinted at all in any of the stuff I've seen on the card so far. Only AI and Tensor Deep-Learning compute stuff, not exactly anything that Iray uses as of now. I can see how a 75 watt, single slot card with 16GB may be of interest for some, I'm just not sure if the thing will ever get Iray support, or if it will ever be cost effective compared to other 16GB cards that do have Iray support.

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  • prixat said:

    After many years of observation I'm beginning to think that the people who use cm are likely to be non-engineers or americans!

    Or clothing designers. Russian clothing designers trained in the 90s, at least =)

    But it's a decidedly non-engineering unit, true.

     

    Fisty said:

    Well..  rooms are generally constructed to nice round sizes..  s

    And there is also a noticeable margin of error, at least in mass-constructed housing. My Soviet ceiling is actually pretty visibly sloped and the room isn't perfectly rectangular either. The main brick walls are okay, but the internal separator walls (which bear no weight) are all over the place, same as the plaster thickness.

    So furniture has to accomodate all those errors.

     

    The metre was originally defined in 1793 as one ten-millionth of the distance from the equator to the North Pole. Yet I'm sure that makes a Mars meter smaller than an earth meter, lol. because unlike all the other metric units, the meter is not directly related to a 'constant' it may actually be changed sometime in the distant future to better relate to things a bit more inclusive. 

    It's been defined as the distance travelled by light over some fraction of a second for quite a while already. Same as the second is the time it takes a specific number of caesium atom oscillations to happen (the wiki has those numbers, they're impossible to memorise). So you are completely right, the evolution of metric has been to use something "physically based".

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited September 2018

    yeah, I hesitated in going too far into the dancing around a given length and trying to make it fit the cosmological constants that have happened since then, lol.  And for a given length, it is fair to say that Earth is rather rare in regard to 24 hour rotation and lengths based on the size of earth. There was an interesting show called "How long is a piece of string" (with Alan Davies) that was rather good in showing why it can be incredibly difficult to measure ever smaller things due to quantum uncertainty. I can understand for the sake of much larger things, an accumulative average of a few trillion atoms along the edge of a ruler can give a "Good enough" length to measure most larger things, even considering Loren's contraction and quantum variable atom sizes. I am not saying that the existing length of a meter should change to make it a nice round number of atoms or wavelengths of light, just that it will not match the length derived elsewhere in the universe if we even get to compare an Earth ruler to one made by another society elsewhere that does not have a 24 hour day and a planet the same exact size of earth, lol.

    It would be interesting to see if a truly universal measurement system could be made One truly based on sizes and derived purely on cosmological constants rather than just trying to adopt them to existing distances and time. I am not saying that anyone should adopt the system over what they already use, just that it would be interesting to see if it could be done.

     

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  • It would be interesting to see if a truly universal measurement system could be made One truly based on sizes and derived purely on cosmological constants rather than just trying to adopt them to existing distances and time. I am not saying that anyone should adopt the system over what they already use, just that it would be interesting to see if it could be done.

    =D

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_units

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited September 2018

    Thats rather cool, I had seen Plank's constant a few places and never dug further into it. Including a draft for a unit of time, I am impressed, I was unsure what to work from for that. I had thought of maybe the orbit time of an electron in a hydrogen atom, tho I'm not sure that is even possible to determine for a dozen reasons, lol. And on much larger and slower scales, I was unsure of anything that was not based on how much mass something just happen to collect in that part of the universe, lol.

    The past few days I was cobbling together some stuff. From Left to right, FW Wanda does NOT include glowing red Chiss eyes. I ended up making a glowing edge map of one of the included maps and fussing with settings for a day to get it that far, I am pleased with the results tho.  FWSA Krisandra does not include a Twi'lek Tekku prop, that part is still a WIP.

    As for the Mirialan, that was a 50/50 mix of FWSA Krisandra green and normal maps with a tattoo overlayed on them. Again, I am very impressed. The eyes I simply resorted to a brush around 90 pixels wide to paint over one of the included eye maps to make the blue eyes. I probably went too far tinting the skin maps, I'll be playing with that a bit more along with the other stuff. Oh, and that is without Zelara8, I was a tad limited with play funds this month. And none of the outfit items (Blooming, dForce Sweet Summer, dForce Sexy Little Outfit,EJ Vera Fantasykini, etc) have the normal mats on them, it is mostly AElflaed's shaders with some costome made 'BZ' maps.

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  • I had thought of maybe the orbit time of an electron in a hydrogen atom, tho I'm not sure that is even possible to determine for a dozen reasons, lol.

    Not possible. They don't even really "orbit", not in the classical mechanics sense that we're used to. Here's a good page: https://chemguide.co.uk/atoms/properties/orbitsorbitals.html

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited September 2018

    even if you consider an electron to be nothing more than an energy level of a standing wave around a given force of an atom nucleus, as said, for a dozen reasons, lol. It matters not that according to some maths a wave will always have a given speed and time to go full cycle, Despite the simple fact a laser works, you can't measure it, for a dozen reasons. That is a great link to what amounts to dipping your toes in what would be over 8 years of post masters in such things.

    Well, I was working a tad more on the head fit shape, and started to get a tad interesting thought, given generic biology, and I know many will say I'm oversimplifying some things, tho I feel it still has some merit. Initially, I felt some pity for Twi'lek's given how the core worlds treated them, and after looking over a few examples and one site that dove deep into the shape of the Tekku (head tales), I'm starting to wonder just how feasible this would be.

    The extra weight on the neck aside, simply the support tendons and such alone would consume a lot of the back of the head, and I don't think that would allow for a larger visual cortex, not necessarily smaller, just not larger given the extra width the tails add to the back of the head. And that is not in itself a bad thing, just an observation. And it appears that the front of the head is also limited by simply not having more size. One can point out the density of nerve cells in a wale brain vs a human despite the wale brain being much larger, and given that it's not like a Twi'lek couldn't have more nerve cells in the same volume, just that the volume in those two locations is not that much larger than a human head.

    Now that most have probably started uttering things I did not imply by that, lol, I do think it is quite feasible that a Twi'lek is at least as intelligent as a human with equally as good eyesight. The interesting bit is when we look at the middle of the head between the front and where the Tekku attaches, that area would allow for more volume. And in most creatures that I have read about, that area is associated with motor control. I don't think the extra head tales would require that much more motor control nerve cells directly, so it is more than reasonable to assume that a Twi'lek may have far better coordination than a human.

    In a way, I almost think that Lucas inadvertently made a more feasible Elf, with that walk on snow or air ability, as Shadiversity had jokingly referred to in a few episodes, lol. It's also not like Twi'leks have been hinted to see in UV or IR in any way more than generic humans, and the bipedal biology appears to hint at many other interesting possibilities. For the sake of this not being a multi-page post akin to the article, Kettu linked to about the electron, I will amend my more in-depth thoughts on that till later on (like cognitive ability vs complex nerve networks vs simplicity of nerve system in an octopus vs skull vs no skull around a brain, and why I don't think it is feasible for a non-aquatic creature to have an active part of the central nervous system not encased in a rigid support structure.)

    So, I am fooling around with the head fit shape, and still working out the shape of the Tekku. And yes I spun a few more shaping dials here than the former renders, shorter wider neck for the Twi'lek and a tad more muscle for the Mirialan.

    I do think I'm getting close enough with the shape. And let's face it, some consider Twi'lek's attractive not just because they can be incredibly graceful and acrobatic, some just think that Tekku are sexy and they do not need another reason for being, lol. Just like the eyestalks of the Teleopsis dalmanni.

    Oh, and thanks whoever fixed the attachment upload thumbs for Firefox, no more guessing what I missed or not, lol.

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  • I think the metric and the imperial system of mesuring lenths are both based on the length of a big footstep of an average adult. The centimeters are a subdivision of one meter while inches are a subdivison of one feet - at least as far as I know. But why you would measure with the length of your feet that is defined by 30 inches is beond me, there is a big variation in shoe sizes.

    I've found some interesting facts.

    Source: https://www.mathsisfun.com/length-conversion.html

    Example: Convert 3 feet into meters

    rulers 1ft vs 1m

    When we put a 1-meter ruler next to a
    1-foot ruler, they look like this

    rulers 1ft 0.3048m

    Look closely and we see that the 1-foot ruler comes to exactly 0.3048 on the meter ruler

     

    So, the conversion for feet to meters is: 1 ft = 0.3048 meters

    To convert feet to meters, multiply by 0.3048

     

    In fact we could put three 1 foot rulers next to each other like this:

    rulers 3ft 0.9144m

    Now you can see that 3 feet = 3 × 0.3048 meters = 0.9144 meters

     

    So: 3 ft = 3 × 0.3048 m = 0.9144 m

    ...3 Feet = 0.9144 Meter that is not far away from multiplied by 3. While 5 Feet are 152,4 cm that is also close. The width of our highway roads is by default 2,5 m our trucks on it shouldn't exceed a height of 4 m to fit under a bridge, that was first standardized by the romans and is based on the width of horse-drawn carriages and still adapts to the width of modern cars, 2,5 m is also the average room height we build or how big for example an oversea container is ...of what our worldwide trade system is based, so the container is just in the right size to carry them further on the train or the road to have them delivered.

    Walkable streets | U.S. Green Building Council - USGBC ... b. At least 15% of existing and new street frontage within and bordering the project has a minimum building-height-to-street- width ratio of 1:3 (i.e., a minimum of 1 foot (300 millimeters) of building height for every 3 feet (900 millimeters) of street width)...

     

    The Average Walking Stride Length The Numbers

    Stride length is measured from heel to heel and determines how far you walk with each step. On average, a man's walking stride length is 2.5 feet, or 30 inches, according to Arizona State University Extension. A woman's average stride length is 2.2 feet, or 26.4 inches, reports the school. In general, people with longer legs have a greater stride length than those with shorter legs.

    Ultimately, the natural constants guide us with the wish to divide our surounding, the time, temperature and speed into measureable units.

    I mean if we have a given speed limit like while we are traveling, by walking, driving, flying, one could say that you reach your destination in the estimated time...

    ...or to render this scene with DatStudio and with these settings on this mashine it would that long to render :)


    It is simply the desire of mankind to divide nature into clearly defined units. I am thinking of the division of the electromagnethic wavelengths into different frequency bands.

    And microwave frequencies with low energy surrounding us silently dayby day become more and more important to us like Satelite TV, WiFi and mobile phones.

    BTW did you know that if you close your microwave oven you can see your meal throug this metal mesh in the door, the holes in it are just a bit smaler in diameter than the wavelegnth of mircro waves that are generated inside. This is designed to prevent mircro waves to pass throug and producing interfering frequencies. That sied we also have restricted regulations for electronic devices how much interfering frequencies they produce or how much of it they can handle without interfering their function.

    Otherwise running a microwave oven with an opened door is an Dangerous thing to do because it would animate all water melecules nearby to heat up by reciving the high microwave energy that makes their electrons spin faster around their core until the stable link between the atoms break up and the molecules state of aggregation changes. Also commonly knowen as cooking water by a temperature of 100 degres Celsius or how do you measure that...wink

    Wiki Electromagnetic Specktrum

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited September 2018

    yeah, I'm not too fond of having the 2.4 band just floating around me, lol. 2.2 is scary enough, lol. I will resist my thoughts on a yard being 0.9144 meters, a foot being about 30.48cm. It's just that when you start to multiply the discrepancy over multiple items, it adds up to a lot, and gets tedious for placing stuff in Daz Studio.

    on other things, I'm still not sure UDIM was the way to go for UV mapping that thing, and it didn't work out as easy as I thought it would. Sadly any change at this point, will require completely rerigging it from scratch, so, eh. I'll need to think about that some more.

    In light of seeing this from a few places now, I've been tempted to look at VRM coolers some more. Granted the temp tests weren't in the same locations, however, the simple fact is the VRM's can't handle it. Remember 105c is the MAX most smaller components are rated for around the VRM.

    The bottom line is both Tech yes city, and Hardware unboxed had x399 motherboards not keeping their cool. And it's not like Buildzoid and others didn't see this coming before the launch of the Zen+ Threadrippers.

    I guess I should measure some blocks if I can find some for the newer boards, and see if anything can be done within the constraints between the memory slots on both sides of the CPU socket. With so many asking if they can cut fins into VRM blocks, I really am surprised aftermarket VRM coolers are not a thing already.

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  • FistyFisty Posts: 3,416

    You can change the UV map of something after it's rigged, just have to make a secondary UV for the item in the surface tab, save the figure, then in the data folder you'll see the new one.  Either you can leave it like that just using the new one (shaders might revert it to the default though), or you can edit the default uvs in a text editor to have the same vertex info as the new one, I've done it several times..  just keep a backup copy in case you mess anything up in the code.

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited September 2018

    ok, thanks. (where did I put the fresh sticky notes) I'll keep a note of that. starting from scratch with a new obj is a lot of work, when it's just a small change from an older version of the obj.

    Now I just need to figure out how to center or mirror the UV locations in Headus, it wants to toss the two sides over to the left of the map the other way. I was originally thinking I could have the UV mapping such that I could just copy the torso surface settings to the Tekku, and it would just work, however, I've given up on that, lol.  Now it's a crop out a square of the torso maps and save them as 'whatever_crop1' for the prop, lol.

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  •  It's also not like Twi'leks have been hinted to see in UV or IR in any way more than generic humans, and the bipedal biology appears to hint at many other interesting possibilities. For the sake of this not being a multi-page post akin to the article, Kettu linked to about the electron, I will amend my more in-depth thoughts on that till later on (like cognitive ability vs complex nerve networks vs simplicity of nerve system in an octopus vs skull vs no skull around a brain, and why I don't think it is feasible for a non-aquatic creature to have an active part of the central nervous system not encased in a rigid support structure.)

    I personally never bought into the "brain tail" thing.

    Seeing into UV does not even need anything extra in the brain BTW - people who have had their eye lens removed because of cataracts will often gain some UV sensitivity because the lens acts like a UV filter. IR is trickier because it's basically warmth, so you need to cool your sensors constantly... it's interesting how the snakes do it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrared_sensing_in_snakes#Anatomy

    Does SW EU ever explain where the non-human humanoids come from? Some "alien races" are canonically "mutant humans" (Thrawn's race was one IIRC), but there's a good number of races that look like humans with funny heads running around; there's no way it's all due to convergent evolution =)

     

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited September 2018

    (Working on my first cup of coffee, I'm still thinking about this) The beyond light thing is interesting to think about, and you are correct, IR would need a sensor at least at ambient your going to detect stuff above ambient. I'm sure there are other ways to possibly not need a cryogenically cooled sensor as is done in some firefighting cameras, however, it may come down to just how much warmer than ambient do you need to see for a particular species. The snake's Pit thing, at a glance, does sort of resemble early eyes that did not need to be photo grade, they just needed to detect the presence of light.

    yeah, I was thinking something like that, like humans or human-like race colonized the stars, then each planet developed independently was one thought. The other was genetic manipulation to adapt to a particular environment. And there is no reason both could not happen at the same time. The other interesting angle, is how many times the eye and jaw evolved independently, and is it not so unlikely that bipedal wouldn't happen, tho I don't think the body shape would be that close to human, it is another thought. I had seen one fan theory diagram that hinted at Tekku containing gray matter down to the tips, I agree tho that it may have been misunderstood just where and it's more reasonable to consider it as just a larger part of the cranium instead of all of the Tekku, lol.

    (other random RTX thought) lol. I had seen the RTX CUDA counts and asking price (MSRP), and after the shell shock of the price hike wore off, it was staring me in the face on my spreadsheets that the entire line of Turing has jumped up a full tier in price. At 1200usd, it really does come down to what is better, the Titan Xp or the RTX2080ti. 12GB vs 11GB, 3840 vs 4352 CUDA/SM units, not to say the level of warranty and customer service between them. And the GTX1080ti weighing in at a similar MSRP as the RTX2080non-ti really has me asking why, lol. 11GB vs 8GB, 3584 vs 2944 CUDA/SM units, without RT or Tensor AI/DeepLearning apps today, the 1080ti really looks like the better card (If your even shopping for a card).

    I am surprised the 2080non-ti did as well as it did, however, it wasn't enough to justify the 80ti asking price over former cards, and that isn't even considering used offerings on older cards. The only people I feel would genuinely benefit from RTX cards are devs that need it to develop RTX apps and AI/DeepLearning scientists working on a tight budget. Outside of that, the 2080non-ti is kind of silly to get instead of the 1080ti right now, and the 2080ti is a horrible gain in FPS for the price almost as bad as getting a Titan V for just gaming on, lol. And if you're eyeballing the RTX (20's or Quadro) for video/3D rendering, Iray/CUDA support will be a few months off, and unless you find it for an 'incredible' deal, it is not worth getting a card that will essentially be an incredibly expensive doorstop till the 3D/video editing apps get updated to support RTX if they ever do. It took over 3 months before Daz3d had GTX10 support when that architecture launched, and it took Adobe Premiere over ten years to get intel iGPU support that had been in Intel CPUs since the Core Duo days, lol. As of today, RTX is an overpriced hope it will eventually be a useful card for anyone not a scientist or software dev. Perhaps someday, for a Much much lower price, the RTX cards may be of some use, and even then, for some, it will be a downgrade in size of Iray scenes they can work with. If you have a 12Gig Titan right now, I would keep the titan or look at possibly Quadros. Hell, if you have a Titan Z, the render performance between that and a GTX1080 is almost exactly the same and doesn't really justify upgrading unless you need the extra ram (and again I would be eyeballing a 12G Titan or Quadro with more ram). OK, now that I spoke up, I do have some more reviews to look through, however, I have seen enough (and many others) to know this RTX thing is not enough of a jump in capability to justify the cost.

    (edit 28sep2018) ok, I still feel the price is not worth it, however, it does look like I was wrong in assuming the RTX20 cards would not get Iray/CUDA drivers until a few more months after launch. Apparently Daz3d is working on something, and I am happy to eat my words on that. I still feel the price is a bit steep for not getting 12GB on the RTX2080ti at least, and the same for not having 11GB on the RTX2080non-ti. I am ecstatic that Daz has figured out something for the cards to not be expensive Bricks, thanks daz.

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  • FistyFisty Posts: 3,416
    edited September 2018

    I would think it more logical for head tails to be for self defense, like prehensile horns.. anyone who's been tail whipped by a lizard know how effective that is..  or heck, even a larger dog, our friends have a very happy pit bull and his tail is the most dangerous part of him.

    And Darc says "handlebars"

    Post edited by Fisty on
  • Syrus_DanteSyrus_Dante Posts: 983
    edited September 2018

    Look what I've found: Twi'lek for Genesis 2 Female @ShareCG This is not a geograft but at least an addon for creature creator.

    I was originally thinking I could have the UV mapping such that I could just copy the torso surface settings to the Tekku, and it would just work, however, I've given up on that, lol.

    That is shurely possible if you manage to create a geograft that is connected to the head.

    I would copy a part of the genesis head geometry in form of a scullcap and use a boolean operation to merge them somehow with the Tekku geometry. I know that boolean operations don't produce usable mesh with eighter Hexagon or Blender but its possible to fix those n-gons, tris and such. Next I would have a look into the Blender UV editor, the remaining scull cap should keep the original genesis UVs in place. I would pin those UV points and unwrap the Tekku UVs with reasonable UV seams but connected to the genesis scullcap UV island - that was the plan.

    But instead of only writing about how one could make it I went ahead and tried it myself.

    I've noticed you are using Headus UV Layout that is an interesting pice of softaware I watched a few turorials and downloaded the trial. But I had trouble with the usage and interface and never went far with it.

    The sull cap geometry I took from genesis includes both surfaces the Face and the Torso. You are right getting the UVs alinged with the original genesis is a problem not so for the face but for the torso map in my case, that is the first "out of bounds" UV map island I wonder if that's the issue?

    This time I was recording what I did in Blender but it ended up in a 1:30 h session planed as a tutorial. But I don't want to bore people watching me trying stuff without explaning. Currently I try to narrow it down to short 15 minute clips showing the important steps - btw composing with blenders video editor.

    Here is what I did in Blender and ZBrush:

    1. I've extracted a scull cap from Genesis 3 Female
    2. I used these curve objects a BezierCurve and a BezierCircle to generate the Twi'leks shaping and placement on the head
    3. added a mirror modifier to work with symmetry
    4. converted the generated Curve object to mesh
    5. added a Boolean modifier - due to my recent discoveries I know Booleans works best with closed shapes
    6. applied the Boolean modifier then I tried to clean up the topology with the blender mesh tools
    7. switched to sculpt mode and tried the Dyntopo settings and getting an even bigger mess of tiangled faces (found the collapse option in Dyntopo while trying to remove some tris)
    8. after some time in sculpt mode with the inflate and smooth brush finaly I decided to switch to ZBrush and used the ZRemesher to get a clean topology and throw away all original UVs (nothing can compete the ZRemesher:)
    9. next I've added a Data Transfer modifier that was succesfully able to "project" UV data from the scull cap mesh to the Twi'leks head (have seen this on some youtube tutorial)
    10. finaly I made two UV maps one default with big separate UV islands for the tails and one with the tails merged to the torso UV island to pick up the character texture to get it seamless

    I've run a quick test with the Transfer Utility and as expected the weightmaps of the back and even the arms get projected to the Twi'leks tails. Maybe I rig those first and merge the rigging later. I just took the second sample of ZRemesher and I don't like some topology above the eyebrows and that the tails tips (uneven number edgepole) but it already fits perfectly and follows all Character shapes because its a GeoGraft. Here are some screenshots.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited September 2018

    Syrus_Dante, That looks incredible (I also like the lightsaber  ). I was mostly thinking about possibly removing a few loops further up the tails/Lekku to allow sub-d to smooth the bone bends a tad more. That alone would be a new obj that I would need to re-rig anyway.

    I wasn't thinking of GeoGraft-ing in as much as a parented prop with a few fit dials for Gen6/7/8. Both GeoGrafting and hair/wearable tend to lose bones when autofitted to other generations. Also, my knowledge in clothing/geoGraft wizardry is minimal at best (I have never done that). What you have going looks incredible, there is no denying that. I don't have the resources to rent Zbrush (or was that a program that costs more than I get a month before bills, lol), and until Blender 2.8 with the navigation tools/icons arrives that is only an object converter for me. I actually hadn't gotten much further than considering the shape where the Lekku meets the head, and thinking about how I want the rigging set up. I ended up spending the last few days just thinking about it, and today making a light for a funny render. DJ Wat Tambor of the Techno Union still bringing down the beat, lol.

    Fisty, that is funny. I had been attacked by puppy tails in the past and I will agree that it can be quite uncomfortable. I was also thinking about that as well, and unlike a dog tail or cattail, I don't think there is a vertebrate-like bone structure in the tails/Lekku given how they move in the movies and cartoons. As a wip, I will agree that they could be quite dangerous, however with a structure closer to an octopus tentacle (or tong for that matter), I don't think lifting strength would be all that great. A muscle lifting strength is sort of related to the rigidity of what it is pulling against, and bone is far more ridged than cartilage and tendons. I don't doubt that they could do a lot with the tails/Lekku, I also don't think they would be immune to blunt force discomfort unlike a dogs tail, lol.

    Now I'm starting to think of a possible way to UV map the tails/Lekku. If I isolate just the Torso part of G8F UDIM, and export that with the Lekku as a single object, Possibly. The problem with UV mapping something to use a small portion of another items map, is most UV tools want to shrink the outer border of the UV down to the size of the island/mesh your working with, and that makes it a tad difficult to set the UV to be much smaller than the map border.

    I may be able to as I started to type, export the torso and Lekku as a single object, and then resize the Lekku maps to scale of the much larger torso map/island. then possibly place them on the map. bring the result back into hex to remove the then unneeded torso mesh, leaving just the Lekku. It's only a thought for now tho. Hmmm. (green outline is the back of the head and back on G8F UV, White is my best single map attempt so far)

    ok, I'm still not sure how to shrink 'island' from the massive list of key-codes, tho this is starting to look promising. 'l' lock the torso map, then 'f' flatten each trail map, save it, reopen it, and repeat. This may not make the tails small enough on the map tho. Hmmm.

    well, that was confusing to figure out, and it scales it again each time you click that 'Scale' button, by the percent dialed in (ratio, whatever it is).

    I don't quite have them starting on the top of the head (yet), however at least now they are on the map and close. I can at least live with that, lol.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited September 2018

    ok, after some fussing while having morning coffee, and I think I got it a lot closer to what I was originally thinking of for UV map locations using the head and back part of the torso maps.

    I think what I'm going to do, is start over again after having had figured that out, lol. I have a few head-fit shapes that I may start with, and start with that mesh.

    I'll need to find some hair for an example that I don't remember what one it was that best showed why dense mesh in the direction of the bone direction is not so good unless it is needed for the shape of the item and weight mapping is something you find easy to do (It is not so easy in Daz Studio). When the bone is moved, and especially scaled down, the row of faces at the root of the bone will move way more than the rest down the length of the bone, and that does cause unnatural looking effects. With hair, it ends up with mesh buckled and folded over itself when autofitted from one generation to the next. That is why I was thinking of removing some loops near the top of the Lekku, as that was just a toroid glued onto a cylinder to start making the item.

    My apologies for typing Tekku instead of Lekku a few times, that former post was after a very long day and I think my mind had already gone to bead.

     

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  • Syrus_DanteSyrus_Dante Posts: 983
    edited September 2018

    The lightsaber comes from Ultimate Lightsaber Set (by Dodger) its a set of 31 items. https://poserdazfreebies.miraheze.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Resources/Lightsabers

    I was mostly thinking about possibly removing a few loops further up the tails/Lekku to allow sub-d to smooth the bone bends a tad more. That alone would be a new obj that I would need to re-rig anyway.

    You don't have to re-rig, just switch to the Geometry Editor select the loop(s), right-click Geometry Visibility>Hide Selected, then right-click Geometry Editing> Delete Hidden, save the Figure/Prop asset again.

    Since the videos have to wait here I have a few shots from the diffrent stages of the modeling process. I left them in the project file and continued to work on a dublicated version (just pressing Shift+D from time to time).

    The last Tekku head Tail 4 is the one I run the ZRemesher over, the tris got dynamicly panited in with the Dyntopo Inflate - Smooth brush, I think its already a usable mesh if you clean up some more edges.

    Rigging this thing also have to wait, I will record this process again in DazStudio. Importing the OBJ, runing the Transfer Utility and make it a GeoGraft takes about 5 minutes this will be a short tutorial.

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,412
    edited September 2018

    wow, and eeek. lol. How that joins the head looks incredible. Rigging it will be a major pain, because the bone weight tool in Daz Studio is more like the airbrush in GIMP for setting any weight value between 100% and 0%, aka near impossible. It is a lot easier to have just enough loops to define the overall shape with a bone for each one (weighting each bone to 100% of just one loop), and let sub-d do the smoothing between the loops for a smooth bend.

    You don't have to re-rig, just switch to the Geometry Editor select the loop(s), right-click Geometry Visibility>Hide Selected, then right-click Geometry Editing> Delete Hidden, save the Figure/Prop asset again.

    ah, I'm not even sure that is going to work, as I am completely remaking the upper part, it's not even going to have the same poly-count. That and the model I'm sending back and forth between daz and hex does not retain the bones, it's just the mesh. so I would need to convince daz to import it onto the rigged model as a morph, and not being the same mesh I really don't think that will work.

    I'm also looking at the rest and wondering if I can trim that back further and allow enough mesh to allow various shape morphs something to work with.

    Looks like the UV trick I figured out last night may work quite well for just copying the surface settings from the Torso over, without needing to get some expensive app like SubstyancePainter or use confusing crop here guides, lol

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  • Syrus_DanteSyrus_Dante Posts: 983
    edited September 2018

    I see you have way too much bone segments along the tail. Where they generated by the Figure Setup pane or did you divide them manualy?

    I meant Select the one or two loops here towards the head in the DazStudio Geometry Editor, what gets hidden in right-click Geoemtry Visibility can get deleted permanently from the figure in the scene while all rigging and morphs remain. Then save a new version as Figure/Prop Asset to the library if you think you are done with the item.

    I think I will divide the tails of my Twi'lek head into about 4 face loop rings for one bone segment - you need to have some vertices for a smooth bending and weight map gradient. And also less bones = less posing trouble.

    You know there are options in the Node Weight Paint Brush tool, right-click Viewport Weight Editing> Fill by Bone Selection Group or Fill Selected with a percentage slider (set it to 100%) that works like a flood fill on the Face Groups assigned to the bones (Joint Editor - Tool Settings pane top - select a Selection Group) or on a current polygon selection from the Geomerty Editor. Once all face Groups have 100% weight assigned you start with a Polygon selection and right-click Weight Editing>Smooth Selected to get an evenly smoothed transition. Do the Smooth Selected action with some map of the last bone in the hierarchy selected and the smooth gets distributed to all other segements I think. Make shure you have Symmetry on in the Geometry Editor and the Weight Brush.

    [Edit]: I wouldn't paint much by hand maybe some Smooth Brush strokes here and there while you have bend the joint but Fill Selected gets you started. Another decition is the Weight Map Mode - did you know you can project all General Weights from Genesis 3 and continue to add TriAx weight maps? The advantage is the tails can bend better with adding and painting Bulge maps on some joints. Just change the Weight Map Mode to Blended Triax/General in the Tool Settings pane of the Weight Brush tool, you can find it on top in the Binding register right after the General.

    If you ask yourself how to mirror the bones I have a thread with the answer here Mirror Bones Problem Google search "site:daz3d.com mirror bone".

    Post edited by Syrus_Dante on
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